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Author Topic: Osama Bin Laden dead  (Read 6976 times)
m4rkiz
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May 03, 2011, 09:03:48 AM
 #61

I'm not fan of Obama, but you shouldn't be citing these things as "facts" without citing any evidence (Kenya), or when the evidence you do supply contradicts your statement.


im not saying that this birth certificate conspiracy theory is true in any way (although wikipedia is no more credible source than most of that kind of sites), just seems to be plenty of commotion around that in last week and now they somehow killed most wanted man that was hiding for 10 years and immediately after that they dumped body into sea because of 24 hours muslim tradition?

suspicioooooous... http://www.myvideo.be/watch/5356065

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May 03, 2011, 12:15:51 PM
 #62

I'm not fan of Obama, but you shouldn't be citing these things as "facts" without citing any evidence (Kenya), or when the evidence you do supply contradicts your statement.


im not saying that this birth certificate conspiracy theory is true in any way (although wikipedia is no more credible source than most of that kind of sites), just seems to be plenty of commotion around that in last week and now they somehow killed most wanted man that was hiding for 10 years and immediately after that they dumped body into sea because of 24 hours muslim tradition?

suspicioooooous... http://www.myvideo.be/watch/5356065



Nothing to see here...move along slave.
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May 03, 2011, 08:31:07 PM
 #63

I'm not fan of Obama, but you shouldn't be citing these things as "facts" without citing any evidence (Kenya), or when the evidence you do supply contradicts your statement.


im not saying that this birth certificate conspiracy theory is true in any way (although wikipedia is no more credible source than most of that kind of sites), just seems to be plenty of commotion around that in last week and now they somehow killed most wanted man that was hiding for 10 years and immediately after that they dumped body into sea because of 24 hours muslim tradition?

suspicioooooous... http://www.myvideo.be/watch/5356065



Sure.  I'm suspicious too.  I'm waiting until I see pictures, at least.  And wikipedia isn't the best source, but in my experience it tends to be pretty accurate.  Whatever the case, don't cite sources that contradict statements you are making.  Not if you want to be taken seriously...  Smiley
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May 03, 2011, 08:59:43 PM
 #64

I'm not fan of Obama, but you shouldn't be citing these things as "facts" without citing any evidence (Kenya), or when the evidence you do supply contradicts your statement.


im not saying that this birth certificate conspiracy theory is true in any way (although wikipedia is no more credible source than most of that kind of sites), just seems to be plenty of commotion around that in last week and now they somehow killed most wanted man that was hiding for 10 years and immediately after that they dumped body into sea because of 24 hours muslim tradition?

suspicioooooous... http://www.myvideo.be/watch/5356065



Sure.  I'm suspicious too.  I'm waiting until I see pictures, at least.  And wikipedia isn't the best source, but in my experience it tends to be pretty accurate.  Whatever the case, don't cite sources that contradict statements you are making.  Not if you want to be taken seriously...  Smiley

If they exist, I'm not sure I would want the pictures out. Sure, I would love to see them, but a lot of people are mad at us and I think this could only fan the flames. What does it mean if he's dead (or alive) and I don't see the pictures? Not a lot (even to me). But what if he is dead and the pictures come out and inspire more violence against Americans? Think about how Americans felt when they saw this:

Now compare it with this and you'll see the only difference is that we don't have a picture of a dead bin Laden:

Now they just need to get out and protect Americans where Americans are.

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May 04, 2011, 05:00:57 AM
 #65

Here are the Venus Project and Zeitgeist Movement repsonses.

http://youtu.be/-KXgHqp2juQ

======================================

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
 
TZM: Response to Media; Death of Osama bin Laden
 
On May 1, 2011 Pres. Barack Obama appeared on national television with the spontaneous announcement that Osama bin Laden, the purported organizer of the tragic events of September 11th 2001, was killed by military forces in Pakistan.
 
Within moments, a media blitz ran across virtually all television networks in what could only be described as a grotesque celebratory display, reflective of a level of emotional immaturity that borders on cultural psychosis. Depictions of people running through the streets of New York and Washington chanting jingoistic American slogans, waving their flags like the members of some cult, praising the death of another human being, reveals yet another layer of this sickness we call modern society.
 
It is not the scope of this response to address the political usage of such an event or to illuminate the staged orchestration of how public perception was to be controlled by the mainstream media and the United States Government. Rather the point of this article is to express the gross irrationality apparent and how our culture becomes so easily fixed and emotionally charged with respect to surface symbology, rather than true root problems, solutions or rational considerations of circumstance.
 
The first and most obvious point is that the death of Osama bin Laden means nothing when it comes to the problem of international terrorism. His death simply serves as catharsis for a culture that has a neurotic fixation on revenge and retribution. The very fact that the Government which, from a psychological standpoint, has always served as a paternal figure for it citizens, reinforces the idea that murdering people is a solution to anything should be enough for most of us to take pause and consider the quality of the values coming out of the zeitgeist itself.
 
However, beyond the emotional distortions and tragic, vindictive pattern of rewarding the continuation of human division and violence comes a more practical consideration regarding what the problem really is and the importance of that problem with respect to priority.
 
The death of any human being is of an immeasurable consequence in society. It is never just the death of the individual. It is the death of relationships, companionship, support and the integrity of familial and communal environments. The unnecessary deaths of 3000 people on September 11, 2001 is no more or no less important than the deaths of those during the World Wars, via cancer and disease, accidents or anything else.
 
As a society, it is safe to say that we seek a world that strategically limits all such unnecessary consequences through social approaches that allow for the greatest safety our ingenuity can create. It is in this context that the neurotic obsession with the events of September 11th, 2001 become gravely insulting and detrimental to progress. An environment has now been created where outrageous amounts of money, resources and energy is spent seeking and destroying very small subcultures of human beings that pose ideological differences and act on those differences through violence.
 
Yet, in the United States alone each year, roughly 30,000 people die from automobile accidents, the majority of which could be stopped by very simple structural changes. That's ten 9/11's each year... yet no one seems to pine over this epidemic. Likewise, over 1 million Americans die from heart disease and cancer annually - causes of which are now easily linked to environmental influences in the majority. Yet, regardless of the over 330 9/11's occurring each year in this context, the governmental budget allocations for research on these illnesses is only a fraction of the money spent on “anti-terrorism” operations.
 
Such a list could go on and on and with regard to the perversion of priority when it comes to what it means to truly save and protect human life and I hope many out there can recognize the severe unbalance we have at hand with respect to our values.
 
So, coming back to the point of revenge and retribution, I will conclude this response with a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., likely the most brilliant intuitive mind when it came to conflict and the power of non-violence. On September 15, 1963 a Birmingham Alabama church was bombed, killing four little girls attending Sunday school.
 
In a public address, Dr. King stated:
 
“What murdered these four girls? Look around. You will see that many people that you never thought about participated in this evil act. So tonight all of us must leave here with a new determination to struggle. God has a job for us to do. Maybe our mission is to save the soul of America. We can't save the soul of this nation throwing bricks. We can't save the soul of this nation getting our ammunitions and going out shooting physical weapons. We must know that we have something much more powerful. Just take up the ammunition of love.”
 
- Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963
 
~Peter Joseph
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May 04, 2011, 06:33:24 PM
 #66

This whole story is just too much.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidences.

How come you kill Bin Laden and you get rid of the body Huh

Imagine if some armed group came by before it and said "Hey, we have killed Bin Laden! We had to get rid of the body immediately after to avoid complications, but yeah, we did kill him! Where is our $25 million reward?"
Could anyone take such group seriously?
Because Obama is doing the exact same thing, only that he wishes better poll results instead of $25m.

Yeah, they should at least hash some piece of evidence (such as picture or dna) inside the bitcoin block chain so that his death can be independently verified. *disclaimer: I don't know how this would work or if it very useful:)

But seriously, if the US government was genuinely interested in having people believe the veracity of their claim, then think of how easy it would have been for the US to have invited reporters from all major news outlets (US and international agencies such as guardian, rt, al jazerra, xinhua, pakistan times, etc.) to the burial to see the dead body.  Trust but verify.

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May 04, 2011, 06:36:11 PM
 #67

But seriously, if the US government was genuinely interested in having people believe the veracity of their claim, then think of how easy it would have been for the US to have invited reporters from all major news outlets (US and international agencies such as guardian, rt, al jazerra, xinhua, pakistan times, etc.) to the burial to see the dead body.  Trust but verify.
Geraldo did something like that once. It didn't work out so good.

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em3rgentOrdr
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May 04, 2011, 06:58:54 PM
 #68

But seriously, if the US government was genuinely interested in having people believe the veracity of their claim, then think of how easy it would have been for the US to have invited reporters from all major news outlets (US and international agencies such as guardian, rt, al jazerra, xinhua, pakistan times, etc.) to the burial to see the dead body.  Trust but verify.
Geraldo did something like that once. It didn't work out so good.

Link please?  Explain.  Im not aware about what you are reffering to.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
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May 04, 2011, 07:05:04 PM
 #69

Link please?  Explain.  Im not aware about what you are reffering to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mystery_of_Al_Capone%27s_Vault#Program

My point is that there was a chance that bin Laden was not there and the administration wouldn't want the media present for such an unfortunate outcome.

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em3rgentOrdr
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May 04, 2011, 07:13:43 PM
 #70

Link please?  Explain.  Im not aware about what you are reffering to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mystery_of_Al_Capone%27s_Vault#Program

My point is that there was a chance that bin Laden was not there and the administration wouldn't want the media present for such an unfortunate outcome.

No, I'm suggesting that the US could have called up the major news agencies *after* killing Osama so that reports could be present at the burial within 24 hours.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
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May 05, 2011, 11:18:31 AM
 #71

I tend to believe he's dead. Haven't seen any remotely credible claims he's not. No tapes, no statements, nothing.

The interesting thing, to me, here is that this seems to have been a kill order, not a capture order. What would have happened, had Osama Bin Laden been captured and put on trial?

I think a number of things:
First, protracted public unrest, probably assassination attempts, endless media circus etc.
More importantly, though, it would have forced the US government to go over the whole rationale for the war on terrorism again - it would have been difficult to prosecute Osama without ending up talking about why the US went to war in Afghanistan, then somehow ended up in Iraq. Osama's perspective on that might have been quite interesting. And who knows what kind of info Osama had on US politicians... No, they had to kill him.

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May 05, 2011, 03:32:40 PM
 #72

I tend to believe he's dead. Haven't seen any remotely credible claims he's not. No tapes, no statements, nothing.

The interesting thing, to me, here is that this seems to have been a kill order, not a capture order. What would have happened, had Osama Bin Laden been captured and put on trial?

I think a number of things:
First, protracted public unrest, probably assassination attempts, endless media circus etc.
More importantly, though, it would have forced the US government to go over the whole rationale for the war on terrorism again - it would have been difficult to prosecute Osama without ending up talking about why the US went to war in Afghanistan, then somehow ended up in Iraq. Osama's perspective on that might have been quite interesting. And who knows what kind of info Osama had on US politicians... No, they had to kill him.

I think Osama bin Laden tries to resist. It didn't go well.

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May 06, 2011, 12:09:30 PM
 #73

I think Osama bin Laden tries to resist. It didn't go well.
I think his bodyguards executed him per his instruction to prevent capture.

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May 06, 2011, 02:35:23 PM
 #74

Ive always viewed the government as being like the mafia. Then they go and bury Osama at sea like from a Sopranos episode and it confirms it .  Cheesy
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May 06, 2011, 03:06:38 PM
 #75

Ive always viewed the government as being like the mafia. Then they go and bury Osama at sea like from a Sopranos episode and it confirms it .  Cheesy

If that guy held some information he might bargain with during the trial, then that head shot and "put to sleep with the fishes" are more than convenient... Don Obama... ooops!... Tony Soprano wouldn't do any better.

To the very end however this whole story stinks! No pictures, no body, no evidence at all... like we should just believe Obama sent his thugs to kill Osama and that's it.
And then see Americans celebrate like Palestinians who just killed a Jew... to some point it looks like the West is as much civilized as the Middle East. Celebrate death, even of that "creature", is a synonym of barbarity (Doesn't mean you need to mourn him either).
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May 06, 2011, 03:08:47 PM
 #76

And then see Americans celebrate like Palestinians who just killed a Jew... to some point it looks like the West is as much civilized as the Middle East. Celebrate death, even of that "creature", is a synonym of barbarity (Doesn't mean you need to mourn him either).
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May 06, 2011, 03:39:00 PM
 #77

I tend to believe he's dead.

Probably. But that doesn't mean the US forces actually killed him.
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May 06, 2011, 04:18:09 PM
 #78

Last night, the inevitable question came up to Ron Paul about his wanting to leave Afghanistan previously and that preventing America from killing bin Laden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgbiCK1E59w&t=3m30s

It's thing like this that really make me question people. You didn't realize that Osama wasn't killed in Afghanistan? Nor did you realize that that he wasn't killed by some large military unit, but by a special group of Seals who report directly to the president and could've been sent there on a moment's notice as it is? So tell me, do you still believe that continuing to nation build in Afghanistan is in our interests? http://fwd4.me/3DL Oh, I see now.

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May 08, 2011, 01:43:19 PM
 #79

Most people foolishly or naively believe that Osama Bin Laden died a week ago primarily due to plethora of corrupted media sources helping to propogate such misinformation to continue deceiptful perceptions amongst billions of people that cannot think or understand critically.

Hint: http://breaking.witcoin.com/p/1476/Osama-bin-Laden-already-died-in-2001

I am one person.  I do not consider myself corrupt.  Do you?
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May 08, 2011, 01:58:55 PM
 #80

Most people foolishly or naively believe that Osama Bin Laden died a week ago primarily due to plethora of corrupted media sources helping to propogate such misinformation to continue deceiptful perceptions amongst billions of people that cannot think or understand critically.

Hint: http://breaking.witcoin.com/p/1476/Osama-bin-Laden-already-died-in-2001

I am one person.  I do not consider myself corrupt.  Do you?

You know what leads me to believe on those so called "conspiracy theories"? The pictures of Bin Laden.
Photography, video and audio evolved along with technology, if today you see a video or picture from the 80's you automatically know it's old, not only by the weird hair looks of the folks but by the grain, interference and glossy colors of the picture itself, even if remastered those pictures will still look old.
The world colors also come to be a hint, as it was normal up to mid 90's to see many brown, brick and sand-colored clothing, buildings, cars, etc... colors you don't normally see today on man-made things.
On audio you have the interference of mechanical parts, removed now with digital recording but common up to mid 2000's.

Now, when a simple mobile phone can take pictures up to 12 Mpx, all the pictures and audio records of Bin Laden resembles, at best, the technology of early 2000's. There's not a single picture, audio or video record someone can say to be taken after 2003~2005.
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