GAZA - Why not have a bitcoin center?

[NRF]

Have you thought about it from the Palestinian point of view?

Approximately 65 years ago they were invaded by people from all over the world, they came and just set up camp and declared themselves a country!

Well if you look at the actual history, there wasn't much there when Israel settled it.

Most of the Palestinians are recent.

pfft...  There was an entire country there along with a few very large cities.. Jerusalem for example.

Millions of people lived there.

[CoinMode]

Bitcoins are not really useful there [Gaza] and any donation will just end up being converted to dollars and given to a UN humanitarian aid corporation. which is already well funded. thus wasted on their funding campaign advertising and corporate office wages.

Please tell us how a functioning bitcoin exchange would ever give all of the dollars from BTC conversions to UN organizations. What kind of an exchange is that? Look, the whole idea is for people from all over the world to be able to give donations and perform commercial activity in BTC with Palestinians, or any impoverished people, directly without any charity or middleman taking huge cuts for corporate profit. You don't seem to understand that concept, so please stay out of the conversation if that is the case.



To everybody else, yes this is a far-fetched idea, but the very concept of a currency backed by nothing but the computing power of the internet is still complete science-fiction for all but the ten million bitcoiners out there, who make up less than 0.2% of the world's population. In the not-so-distant future, when a guided missile with a warhead turns a poor civilian's home into dust, you will be able to send them money to help rebuild instantly and freely, if you so choose. You can propose solutions or challenges for the concept, but don't, even for a second, suggest that it might be impossible. We can finally do this now that we have bitcoin, and the only real question left is who will do it first and reap the potentially huge financial and moral rewards. I was asking about feasibility, because the possibility of this idea is a definite yes with no exceptions. Gaza gets 8 hours of electricity a day, and they do have a few computers and radio transmitters in the strip.

Thanks for the input so far. Hopefully somebody more financially savvy than myself will see this and run with it.

[CoinMode]

It is literally 10's of rockets a day... so hundreds of times a week Israelies hear the siren and have to go in their bomb shelters.. no one thinks of that..

I like how you just lied out of both sides of your mouth. Hundreds of times a week Israelis have to evacuate? That is more than one evacuation per hour. You have no idea what you are talking about at all.

1. Iron Dome can stop more than 99.7% of any kind of ballistic rocket, and a higher percentage if it is a slow homemade Palestinian rocket.

2. Palestinian rockets have no explosives on them at all. They lack even the most basic technology that would make a small homemade warhead explode on impact. Just let that sink in for a bit. How long have there been missiles that explode on impact? Maybe close to 100 years? Palestine doesn't even have one.

3. Keeping in mind #2, the damage done by any Palestinian rocket is limited entirely to the size of the rocket and how many times in bounces along the ground, because it has no blast radius at all since there is no warhead. The rockets are 6x1 feet on average. That means their normal area of impact is six square feet. Sometimes they may skid for a few more feet, but only if they hit flat concrete and nothing else. How big is the crater left by laser-guided IDF missiles?

4. The city of Jerusalem is about 64,000,000 square feet in size.

5. Palestinian rockets have absolutely zero guidance systems. They just randomly go in a general direction fired with a huge margin of error.


My bet is that nobody would get hit even without the Iron Dome. Since there has not been a single injury due to these rockets with the Dome, and Palestine has exactly zero defense against an attack of any kind, I really don't see how this is a fair fight by any stretch of the imagination. Considering Israel got all their weapons for free with my tax dollars, they are really going to start having fun once we can't print enough money to fund them anymore. Hopefully they can make a few friends in the area before then, but they might find that a little difficult, now.

[gjgjg]

It is literally 10's of rockets a day... so hundreds of times a week Israelies hear the siren and have to go in their bomb shelters.. no one thinks of that..

I like how you just lied out of both sides of your mouth. Hundreds of times a week Israelis have to evacuate? That is more than one evacuation per hour. You have no idea what you are talking about at all.

1. Iron Dome can stop more than 99.7% of any kind of ballistic rocket, and a higher percentage if it is a slow homemade Palestinian rocket.

2. Palestinian rockets have no explosives on them at all. They lack even the most basic technology that would make a small homemade warhead explode on impact. Just let that sink in for a bit. How long have there been missiles that explode on impact? Maybe close to 100 years? Palestine doesn't even have one.

3. Keeping in mind #2, the damage done by any Palestinian rocket is limited entirely to the size of the rocket and how many times in bounces along the ground, because it has no blast radius at all since there is no warhead. The rockets are 6x1 feet on average. That means their normal area of impact is six square feet. Sometimes they may skid for a few more feet, but only if they hit flat concrete and nothing else. How big is the crater left by laser-guided IDF missiles?

4. The city of Jerusalem is about 64,000,000 square feet in size.

5. Palestinian rockets have absolutely zero guidance systems. They just randomly go in a general direction fired with a huge margin of error.


My bet is that nobody would get hit even without the Iron Dome. Since there has not been a single injury due to these rockets with the Dome, and Palestine has exactly zero defense against an attack of any kind, I really don't see how this is a fair fight by any stretch of the imagination. Considering Israel got all their weapons for free with my tax dollars, they are really going to start having fun once we can't print enough money to fund them anymore. Hopefully they can make a few friends in the area before then, but they might find that a little difficult, now.

Example of Hama rocket on Israel:
http://youtu.be/bpqiHchsbE0

Small note on your post:
"My bet is that nobody would get hit even without the Iron Dome. Since there has not been a single injury due to these rockets with the Dome, ..."

2 Israeli people have died due to rockets in a more than a week of them, where something like 1000 rockets were fired into Israel. Its not even clear if they were unlucky enough to get hit with a rocket, or maybe died from a heart attack or something (I think more people were injured / killed from road crashes that week).
Still, at that stage Israel had killed at least 200 people (mostly civilians and large amounts of kids under 15, women and elderly people of residental areas), so the disparity is clear no matter how you skew it. Israel has a completely overwhelming military advantage, they are in control, they have the responsibility to act with restraint. If you have a one arm kid kicking you with no shoes on, then you dont pound him into the ground with a nailed baseball bat. Israel/US could wipe Gaza off the map without even setting foot in there; the IDF have nukes and plenty of air power, if the Palestinians had anything substantial, Israel would have noticed a few more deaths and touted it from the rooftops on the american media by now.

Incidentally, its really encouraging to see the people of the world are becoming less ignorant of this situation year by year - these kind of protests would never have been seen even 15 years ago (although its sad to see the Paris and Turkish ones become violent), can't wait to see how the protests will look in 15 years - assuming Israel are continuing their occupation and Palestinians continue to violently oppose it:
http://tinyurl.com/l2lgf7o
http://tinyurl.com/q7y53am

It is literally 10's of rockets a day... so hundreds of times a week Israelies hear the siren and have to go in their bomb shelters.. no one thinks of that..

I think about that, and I sympathize I really do; Israel has the right to defend itself, BUT THEN so does Palestine does too - but the best way to assess it is: how many have fled the danger of these rockets? How many are injured and how many have died? Now compare that to the figures of the similar danger zone in Gaza. See the difference?
EQUALITY is the only way to peace, equality of rights and treatment. No more or less.

[gjgjg]

Stop blowing up buses filled with ordinary people and stop launching explosive rockets into population centers and things might get better. Oh and stop electing committed jihadists to political leadership positions.  

"Stop blowing up buses filled with ordinary people"
That was successfully stopped years ago, when was the last suicide attack in Israel?

"stop launching explosive rockets into population centers"
They are not explosive, they are essentially large metal tubes. They are waaaaaaaay below any modern military standards.
Here is one landing: http://youtu.be/bpqiHchsbE0
That's kinda why only 2 people died when they launched about 1000 of them... you'd have to be very unlucky to get hit and the rockets cant reach heavily dense populations.

"Oh and stop electing committed jihadists to political leadership positions. "
Well, they elected more peaceful types before, they were also more or less ignored and called terrorists by Israel/USA. Asides the few exceptions, they dont have much choice and the jihadists youre talking about dont give the people a lot of space and opportunity to come up with alternatives. Crap situation eh? And after all that they get 3 mins warning if their house is to be blown up. If they leave, they are never allowed to return either.  

Try looking into some basics man, really. I feel like a broken record posting the same basic stuff to so many people who have an opinion with NO basic info to back it up... tiring stuff.

Seriously, look something up about the situation. Something unbiased, like some UN resolutions (what are they proposing and how many countries vote for and against them - who votes against them), or UN reports on the conditions or weapons used by both sides. You'd be surprised by who is using human shields and who isnt for example. The history of the area, what are the 1967 boarders for example? Why doesnt Israel want the Geneva conventions apply to Gaza? What are the Geneva conventions...? Or peace treaty conditions - what were the conditions for Israel and the conditions for Palestine? Who refused what? When? What did the media say about it? Why isn't Palestinian flags in maps, who recognises Palestine as a country who doesnt, why? Or try looking into many media reports as possible, get a wide view - not just American news or something who don't even show you the protests (http://tinyurl.com/q7y53am http://tinyurl.com/q7y53am before you say something like 'those sources are BS', i hardly think they faked them - also like i said, not many people report on the protests, in my town I saw more than 5K people protest, nothing in the media, pics on twitter), don't just base your answers on your gut, seek information.
Self education; I promise you will not be the same after it, I promise you that if you seek information you will not see the situation in the same way. Im not recommending any sources, you need to find them for yourself for it to have an impact on you. Try it. Its not hard to find the info and the effect is has on your brain and outlook on the world: amazing.
Im not saying I know everything, far from it, I learn more about this every day and sorry for sounding like an arrogant arse, really I hate it when this happens to me, but this topic always sets me off not because of the clear-as-day injustices but because of the ignorance surrounding it in the age of the internet too and the massive biases in the media that are clear as day - yet people still swallow it up without a second thought. Ok im off to unplug the internet to save my blood pressure.  

[CoinMode]

They are waaaaaaaay below any modern military standards.

No, those rockets are way below the standard of medieval trebuchet and catapult. You could do a hell of a lot better lobbing boulders than using metal tubes. But then again, Gaza has no access to rock quarry or boulders because Israel has blocked off all borders for several years now.

Even the Jews hate Israel now. http://felicitaannozero.altervista.org/immagini_sion/ortodossi_ebrei_bruciano_la_bandiera_israeliana.jpg

That pic was in NYC.

[Guido]

start by adding your weight to boycotting this
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=627782.0

bloody bitcoin conference in israel

[indiguy]

indeed media exaggerate the news, it helps them so people will actually watch the news.

[CoinMode]

indeed media exaggerate the news, it helps them so people will actually watch the news.

Jews burning Zionist flag:

http://www.vosizneias.com/assets/uploads/news_photos/thumbnails/800_d29127629f1958de9a4285abf2946fb4.jpg

http://syrianfreepress.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/jews-burn-israeli-flag.jpg

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesD/boropark.jpg

http://www.nkusa.org/activities/demonstrations/20110320/jerusalem/0-fhxp6qyw__w433h289q70.jpg

http://i.usatoday.net/news/gallery/day/migrated-media/03israel_n070424.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oiFLOs5Xa2I/TYpxukahPGI/AAAAAAAAYS4/2Ie0msCb8cs/s1600/burning-flag_300_0.jpg

http://www.nkusa.org/activities/demonstrations/20110320/london/1-P1010255.jpg


I have no fear for my many Jewish friends. Fortunately, none of my friends are living under Israeli occupation right now.

[Alphi]

the truth is that decentralised crypto currency if successful will erode the fiat based financial systems ability to fund wars like the war in gaza.

instead of governments printing money to fund wars they will have to seek approval from the population beforehand to pay for every single conflict... and knowing the real cost of making war, most people will be reluctant to pay.
for example.. if the Americans knew how much the Iraq war was going to cost them (I think it was something like $47,000 per person or perhaps more)... it probably would never have happened.

well that's how it would work in a world with no fiat.

wireless mesh networks and crypto currency are ideal for places like gaza which are blockaded.

if every house had solar panels and wireless transmitters then nobody would be able to shut it down no matter how many roofs they bombed.

the problem is not the technology or the funding... it is in fact the logistics of getting the infrastructure through the blockade in the first place.

and for that there is only a political solution.

I doubt crypto would get to gaza in any meaningful way anytime soon because the Hamas government is really not all that interested in civil infrastructure compared to the effort they put into smuggling rockets.

West bank on the other will probably adopt crypto sooner rather than later because its a natural fit.

[Ron~Popeil]

Stop blowing up buses filled with ordinary people and stop launching explosive rockets into population centers and things might get better. Oh and stop electing committed jihadists to political leadership positions.  

"Stop blowing up buses filled with ordinary people"
That was successfully stopped years ago, when was the last suicide attack in Israel?

"stop launching explosive rockets into population centers"
They are not explosive, they are essentially large metal tubes. They are waaaaaaaay below any modern military standards.
Here is one landing: http://youtu.be/bpqiHchsbE0
That's kinda why only 2 people died when they launched about 1000 of them... you'd have to be very unlucky to get hit and the rockets cant reach heavily dense populations.

"Oh and stop electing committed jihadists to political leadership positions. "
Well, they elected more peaceful types before, they were also more or less ignored and called terrorists by Israel/USA. Asides the few exceptions, they dont have much choice and the jihadists youre talking about dont give the people a lot of space and opportunity to come up with alternatives. Crap situation eh? And after all that they get 3 mins warning if their house is to be blown up. If they leave, they are never allowed to return either.  

Try looking into some basics man, really. I feel like a broken record posting the same basic stuff to so many people who have an opinion with NO basic info to back it up... tiring stuff.

Seriously, look something up about the situation. Something unbiased, like some UN resolutions (what are they proposing and how many countries vote for and against them - who votes against them), or UN reports on the conditions or weapons used by both sides. You'd be surprised by who is using human shields and who isnt for example. The history of the area, what are the 1967 boarders for example? Why doesnt Israel want the Geneva conventions apply to Gaza? What are the Geneva conventions...? Or peace treaty conditions - what were the conditions for Israel and the conditions for Palestine? Who refused what? When? What did the media say about it? Why isn't Palestinian flags in maps, who recognises Palestine as a country who doesnt, why? Or try looking into many media reports as possible, get a wide view - not just American news or something who don't even show you the protests (http://tinyurl.com/q7y53am http://tinyurl.com/q7y53am before you say something like 'those sources are BS', i hardly think they faked them - also like i said, not many people report on the protests, in my town I saw more than 5K people protest, nothing in the media, pics on twitter), don't just base your answers on your gut, seek information.
Self education; I promise you will not be the same after it, I promise you that if you seek information you will not see the situation in the same way. Im not recommending any sources, you need to find them for yourself for it to have an impact on you. Try it. Its not hard to find the info and the effect is has on your brain and outlook on the world: amazing.
Im not saying I know everything, far from it, I learn more about this every day and sorry for sounding like an arrogant arse, really I hate it when this happens to me, but this topic always sets me off not because of the clear-as-day injustices but because of the ignorance surrounding it in the age of the internet too and the massive biases in the media that are clear as day - yet people still swallow it up without a second thought. Ok im off to unplug the internet to save my blood pressure.  

Even if they aren't explosives these people are firing projectiles into populated areas. Just because they miss, or get shot down, or don't normally do damage is beside the point. These rockets are an ongoing terrorist attack.

The jihadists also kidnapped and murdered three kids recently.

I am quite educated. I am also intellectually honest. Since this is the bit coin forum I will leave it at that. We can discuss it further in the political forum but I suspect neither of us will convince the other on anything. 

[CoinMode]

We can discuss it further in the political forum but I suspect neither of us will convince the other on anything. 

Yes, everybody can see that you are a closed-minded fool about this issue. If a six-year-old kid with autism was slapping you on the shoulder [Gaza] a few times, then you [Israel] think that a Mike Tyson uppercut knockout is a morally acceptible response. We all know this now and you will never change your opinion on that question, like you just stated.

You obviously enjoy having a legacy that includes the the blood of millions of Jews and Muslims on your limp-wrist hands.

I prefer to find a way to help innocent civilians rebuild their homes. Thanks for not helping anybody today. At least you had a little integrity showed all of us your true character.

[Alphi]

The jihadists also kidnapped and murdered three kids recently.

I am quite educated. I am also intellectually honest.

you aren't being intellectually honest with yourself or anyone else if you tell only half the story.
you left out the part where Zionist extremists kidnapped and lynched an innocent Palestinian boy in an act of cold blooded vengeance.

yes the jihadists are very bad people but to not see the very bad people that exist within Israels Zionist community is simply living in blissful ignorance.
there's no doubt in my mind that if they had found 3 Palestinian boys they would have lynched all 3. there was even a rabi calling for the foreskins of 300 Palestinians in revenge for the attacks on those jewish kids.

this is the problem with these extremist ideologies festering and growing within the communities on both sides.


EDIT:
here is some more education on the topic.
the voice of reason from a peace activist who is the son of an isreali general and grandson of one of the founders of isreal.

a very frank and candid discussion that restores some of my faith in humanity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SuuCa3CiXY

[gjgjg]

Stop blowing up buses filled with ordinary people and stop launching explosive rockets into population centers and things might get better. Oh and stop electing committed jihadists to political leadership positions.  

"Stop blowing up buses filled with ordinary people"
That was successfully stopped years ago, when was the last suicide attack in Israel?

"stop launching explosive rockets into population centers"
They are not explosive, they are essentially large metal tubes. They are waaaaaaaay below any modern military standards.
Here is one landing: http://youtu.be/bpqiHchsbE0
That's kinda why only 2 people died when they launched about 1000 of them... you'd have to be very unlucky to get hit and the rockets cant reach heavily dense populations.

"Oh and stop electing committed jihadists to political leadership positions. "
Well, they elected more peaceful types before, they were also more or less ignored and called terrorists by Israel/USA. Asides the few exceptions, they dont have much choice and the jihadists youre talking about dont give the people a lot of space and opportunity to come up with alternatives. Crap situation eh? And after all that they get 3 mins warning if their house is to be blown up. If they leave, they are never allowed to return either.  

Try looking into some basics man, really. I feel like a broken record posting the same basic stuff to so many people who have an opinion with NO basic info to back it up... tiring stuff.

Seriously, look something up about the situation. Something unbiased, like some UN resolutions (what are they proposing and how many countries vote for and against them - who votes against them), or UN reports on the conditions or weapons used by both sides. You'd be surprised by who is using human shields and who isnt for example. The history of the area, what are the 1967 boarders for example? Why doesnt Israel want the Geneva conventions apply to Gaza? What are the Geneva conventions...? Or peace treaty conditions - what were the conditions for Israel and the conditions for Palestine? Who refused what? When? What did the media say about it? Why isn't Palestinian flags in maps, who recognises Palestine as a country who doesnt, why? Or try looking into many media reports as possible, get a wide view - not just American news or something who don't even show you the protests (http://tinyurl.com/q7y53am http://tinyurl.com/q7y53am before you say something like 'those sources are BS', i hardly think they faked them - also like i said, not many people report on the protests, in my town I saw more than 5K people protest, nothing in the media, pics on twitter), don't just base your answers on your gut, seek information.
Self education; I promise you will not be the same after it, I promise you that if you seek information you will not see the situation in the same way. Im not recommending any sources, you need to find them for yourself for it to have an impact on you. Try it. Its not hard to find the info and the effect is has on your brain and outlook on the world: amazing.
Im not saying I know everything, far from it, I learn more about this every day and sorry for sounding like an arrogant arse, really I hate it when this happens to me, but this topic always sets me off not because of the clear-as-day injustices but because of the ignorance surrounding it in the age of the internet too and the massive biases in the media that are clear as day - yet people still swallow it up without a second thought. Ok im off to unplug the internet to save my blood pressure.  

Even if they aren't explosives these people are firing projectiles into populated areas. Just because they miss, or get shot down, or don't normally do damage is beside the point. These rockets are an ongoing terrorist attack.

The jihadists also kidnapped and murdered three kids recently.

I am quite educated. I am also intellectually honest. Since this is the bit coin forum I will leave it at that. We can discuss it further in the political forum but I suspect neither of us will convince the other on anything.  

"These rockets are an ongoing terrorist attack."
Agreed, I wish they would stop. They are not helping Israel nor Hamas and least of all the people of Palestine.


"The jihadists also kidnapped and murdered three kids recently."
Yes, there were Israeli kids killed and Palestinians kids in revenge shortly after. Not the first titfortat event instigated by one side or the other.
As I posted elsewhere, there seems to be very little info on these initial teenager killings that sparked the revenge attack and the military escalation. I would love to see some independent info/reports on the details of this, as it wouldn't be the first time a trigger event has been surrounded in lies and misinfo/misunderstanding and there seems to be little info on it out there. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html
It's basically irrelevant now anyway, as things have gone too far past this to simply bring the killers to court and put them in jail as you would in any civilized society.


"I am quite educated. I am also intellectually honest. Since this is the bit coin forum I will leave it at that. We can discuss it further in the political forum but I suspect neither of us will convince the other on anything."  
I would very much welcome further discussion as I honestly want nothing more than to be convinced that Israel is acting reasonably and responsibly and are not repeatedly committing war crimes now and for the last 50 years (as almost all speakers so far at the UN have said this morning http://webtv.un.org/live-now/watch/21st-special-session-of-the-human-rights-council/2178978643001/ - except the Israeli and USA representatives of course).
That when Israel hits hospitals and ambulances, UN facilities and workers, journalists, denies NGOs entry, denies Palestinian people movement, free flow of food, water medicine, not to mention independence and the rights it affords itself... that Israel is it is doing the best it can and trying to adhere to international law.

I honestly wish this were the case. If I could be shown something or heard something in discussion to be convinced of this I would sleep better knowing that this is not one of the largest crimes of our age and the last 4-5 decades and not feel the need to do something, even if it's just to support awareness through the internet and write this stuff. I still give Israel the benefit of the doubt, and I am open and wanting to be convinced but considering everything I've seen not just with this situation - but with how things were/are and how they played out in so many other conflicts and wars and occupations in history, I will be difficult to convince - but i sincerely wish to be.

[CoinMode]

This thread got really derailed with a lot of anger. Sorry that I sort of let it get out of control when it could have been a much more productive conversation. We are all aware of the disgusting war crimes being commuted by Israel right now. There is no debating that situation. We should leave it up to the judge and jury to decide their fate.

If anybody would like to go back to the original proposal of how to get a bitcoin exchange into Gaza, or other similarly war torn corners of the world, then please discuss. Otherwise, there is no point in continuing.

[cdog]

Sometimes I think the best thing that could happen to that part of the world is an earthquake that dropped the entire region into the Mediterranean Sea.

We've seen nearly a century of conflict between equally-guilty sides, supplied and funded by a bunch of governments around the world at the expense of their own populations because it's a good way to make some extra money for the arms exporters and I'm tired of hearing about it.

If war is the health of the state, that part of the world must be its spa.

I think, with this post, you have moved to the very top of the list of my favorite posters on here.

[beetcoin]

bitcoin isn't the solution, it is too easy for Israel to interrupt internet service and without internet, bitcoin won't work.

was gonna say this. israel has that region in their pocket. shut down ISP, control water supply, whatever. they have all the assets.

[Meuh6879]

Gaza (Gaz.A and Gaz.B) is a war zone (and always declared as ...)
Internet is not reliable in this territory.

[Lauda]

I'm pretty sure that the issues at hand need to be resolved first before one should try and establish this.

[DodoB]

Stop blowing up buses filled with ordinary people and stop launching explosive rockets into population centers and things might get better. Oh and stop electing committed jihadists to political leadership positions.  

"stop launching explosive rockets into population centers"
They are not explosive, they are essentially large metal tubes. They are waaaaaaaay below any modern military standards.
Here is one landing: http://youtu.be/bpqiHchsbE0
That's kinda why only 2 people died when they launched about 1000 of them... you'd have to be very unlucky to get hit and the rockets cant reach heavily dense populations.

Actualy,fajr 5 is a pretty decent rocket.
The low casualty rate is thanks to Iron Dome,they can indeed reach heavily populated areas such as Tel Aviv,2nd biggest city in Israel.