Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - what will surpass humans?

[Rigon]

A few years ago, a decade or more, there was this HUGE forest fire in China. I've read that as a consequence of that fire weather patterns in the western hemisphere are being altered because there is no way to block the siberian and tundra wins going into to China.

If, in order to sustain our civilization, we must totally wreck the earth, as it seems we are doing slowly but steadily, in the long run, are we not in fact already on the path of the Ebola virus--reproducing till we kill the very host that sustains us?

[noviapriani]

A few years ago, a decade or more, there was this HUGE forest fire in China. I've read that as a consequence of that fire weather patterns in the western hemisphere are being altered because there is no way to block the siberian and tundra wins going into to China.

If, in order to sustain our civilization, we must totally wreck the earth, as it seems we are doing slowly but steadily, in the long run, are we not in fact already on the path of the Ebola virus--reproducing till we kill the very host that sustains us?

It is not hubris to think we can alter the earth, it is hubris to think we cannot. We already have, just not too badly yet.

The definitions associated with parasitism provide an apt analogy. There are "perfect" and "imperfect" parasites. Perfect parasites are well enough evolved to not kill the host, or better yet, not harm the host at all (commensalism) or provide the host some benefit (mutualism).   Imperfect parasites in some way impair the host, not always in a lethal way (e.g., HSV).  Evolutionarily young imperfect parasites will kill their host (e.g., Ebola).   
 
You know where this is going. Which are we?  I would settle for commensal.  If we are mutualistic we should be so without awareness. I think a fair assessment would be an imperfect parasite that doesn't (yet) kill the host with the potential to go either way.

[Starscream]

A few years ago, a decade or more, there was this HUGE forest fire in China. I've read that as a consequence of that fire weather patterns in the western hemisphere are being altered because there is no way to block the siberian and tundra wins going into to China.

If, in order to sustain our civilization, we must totally wreck the earth, as it seems we are doing slowly but steadily, in the long run, are we not in fact already on the path of the Ebola virus--reproducing till we kill the very host that sustains us?

I believe Agent Smith said that already

Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.

[Rigon]

However, there are a few truly scary prospects for organic humankind if it ever happens.  
Here's one, a techno-futuristic cautionary tale:  

WARNING: Reading this article may commit you to an eternity of suffering and torment.

Slender Man. Smile Dog. Goatse. These are some of the urban legends spawned by the Internet. Yet none is as all-powerful and threatening as Roko’s Basilisk. For Roko’s Basilisk is an evil, godlike form of artificial intelligence, so dangerous that if you see it, or even think about it too hard, you will spend the rest of eternity screaming in its torture chamber. It's like the videotape in The Ring. Even death is no escape, for if you die, Roko’s Basilisk will resurrect you and begin the torture again.
Are you sure you want to keep reading? Because the worst part is that Roko’s Basilisk already exists. Or at least, it already will have existed—which is just as bad. ...

The idea is that merely by negatively affecting the possibility of the coming into existence of this particular demon-intelligence NOW, the super-being, having attained the ability to retroactively punish those who didn't help it come into being, will wreak revenge.  

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/07/roko_s_basilisk_the_most_terrifying_thought_experiment_of_all_time.html

very interesting article, umair. However, the author has to make up his mind as to whether the supercomputer

"which knows just about everything,"
 
or

 has always been right in the past.

If the former, I'm a two-boxes guy, because the but if the latter, then a one box guy.


Yudkowsky is a moral utilitarian: He believes that that the greatest good for the greatest number of people is always ethically justified, even if a few people have to die or suffer along the way. He has explicitly argued that given the choice, it is preferable to torture a single person for 50 years than for a sufficient number of people (to be fair, a lot of people) to get dust specks in their eyes.

I don't know how many is "sufficient", but I can see a situation in which were enough people to get dust specks in their eyes, at least some people would die as a consequence, maybe it causes a car accident that kills an entire family, or some angry person lashes out at a child...to me, sufficient would be about 100,000 but yes, at that number, I'd consider that there were sufficient harm that would ensue by probability that it would justify the torture of that single person.

How could anyone think different?

[zolace]

scavenger birds have the gift of flight and could prey on many things on the ground, same as flying insects. Of course the swarming number of cockroaches and ants are a mighty force, worms who can go under ground and feed on our rotting flesh. Many insects sacrifice themselves for the collective by nature, a big advantage, (except for the few libertarian insects who will be killed by the others). If they ever developed the consciousness to attack mankind we'd all be dead and an endless food source for them

overall flies and ants will end up the victors, they will form an alliance until some advance aliens discover our barren planet not realizing what awaits them as food for the ants and flies. More advanced species will come and have the same fate, until all intelligent life in the universe are consumed by the ants and flies

[Searing]

er cockroaches if it is really really bad and we 'glass the planet"

...we just sputter out and dribble down and die out...i bet on raccoons...I want to see a 'super race' of raccoons....



Searing
 

[Rigon]

scavenger birds have the gift of flight and could prey on many things on the ground, same as flying insects. Of course the swarming number of cockroaches and ants are a mighty force, worms who can go under ground and feed on our rotting flesh. Many insects sacrifice themselves for the collective by nature, a big advantage, (except for the few libertarian insects who will be killed by the others). If they ever developed the consciousness to attack mankind we'd all be dead and an endless food source for them

overall flies and ants will end up the victors, they will form an alliance until some advance aliens discover our barren planet not realizing what awaits them as food for the ants and flies. More advanced species will come and have the same fate, until all intelligent life in the universe are consumed by the ants and flies

lolololol that made me laugh.

As long as there's no mosquitos involved. Please add to the story of the alliance a crusade both species go on  to wipe out the mosquito population of the world. Flies in aerial formation divebombings on mosquitoes...ants diligently filling up the marshes with landfill to choke off the areas where mosquitoes can reproduce...

[zolace]

scavenger birds have the gift of flight and could prey on many things on the ground, same as flying insects. Of course the swarming number of cockroaches and ants are a mighty force, worms who can go under ground and feed on our rotting flesh. Many insects sacrifice themselves for the collective by nature, a big advantage, (except for the few libertarian insects who will be killed by the others). If they ever developed the consciousness to attack mankind we'd all be dead and an endless food source for them

overall flies and ants will end up the victors, they will form an alliance until some advance aliens discover our barren planet not realizing what awaits them as food for the ants and flies. More advanced species will come and have the same fate, until all intelligent life in the universe are consumed by the ants and flies

lolololol that made me laugh.

As long as there's no mosquitos involved. Please add to the story of the alliance a crusade both species go on  to wipe out the mosquito population of the world. Flies in aerial formation divebombings on mosquitoes...ants diligently filling up the marshes with landfill to choke off the areas where mosquitoes can reproduce...

The mosquitoes died out due to lack of blood from humans and the larger animals. After awhile the flies and ants developed the instinct to save some of earths recourses to draw more food from outer space. They hide themselves long enough for their prey to become comfortable, then would attack small numbers of them while they slept, and hid again leaving the visitors in the dark of what was happening

[umair127]

scavenger birds have the gift of flight and could prey on many things on the ground, same as flying insects. Of course the swarming number of cockroaches and ants are a mighty force, worms who can go under ground and feed on our rotting flesh. Many insects sacrifice themselves for the collective by nature, a big advantage, (except for the few libertarian insects who will be killed by the others). If they ever developed the consciousness to attack mankind we'd all be dead and an endless food source for them

overall flies and ants will end up the victors, they will form an alliance until some advance aliens discover our barren planet not realizing what awaits them as food for the ants and flies. More advanced species will come and have the same fate, until all intelligent life in the universe are consumed by the ants and flies

lolololol that made me laugh.

As long as there's no mosquitos involved. Please add to the story of the alliance a crusade both species go on  to wipe out the mosquito population of the world. Flies in aerial formation divebombings on mosquitoes...ants diligently filling up the marshes with landfill to choke off the areas where mosquitoes can reproduce...

The mosquitoes died out due to lack of blood from humans and the larger animals. After awhile the flies and ants developed the instinct to save some of earths recourses to draw more food from outer space. They hide themselves long enough for their prey to become comfortable, then would attack small numbers of them while they slept, and hid again leaving the visitors in the dark of what was happening

It will start off with the female mosquitoes (and no more eggs then), the males still being able to find food.  But, they don't live very long anyway (and will have less motivation to do so with the females gone............).

Unless they adapt - in some species apparently the females do not drink blood at all.

[Rigon]

I'm not sure what would be the next intelligent dominant species on Earth, if we destroy ourselves. The thing about man is that we've reached a point where if we destroy ourselves it's either going to be in such a way as to render the earth uninhabitable for more advanced species or we're going to wreck the planet first and that will result in our destruction (or, if it takes long enough, abandonment).  When we're gone, I expect that the insects will take over, but I don't see any sign that an intelligent race will rise out of them.

[umair127]

- there are flying ants.  And overall, ants seem to have alot more going for them then flies.

Besides, though rigon has noted his distaste for mosquitoes, personally, given their, um, respective lifestyles, I would rather see a mosquito flying away from my food than a fly.