Idea for how to kill the sh*t/clone/scamcoin industry

[Brewins]

I have a better idea that won't put your bitcoins in risk, won't make you be a wannabe baby Wolf of Wall Street and won't make you put your brain hash power into something with few to no return: just don't buy, invest or recommend people to invest in scamcoins. Once enough people follow you, there will be no more scamcoin in the market.

Simply.

Many countries have laws about this too.

e.g. in your quest to take down an alt-coin, you could end up behind bars.

As far as I know, its valid only to regulated markets that you need to have a special license to buy and sell the stuff. Since there is no need to have gov authorization to trade cryptos, there is no crime, as far I know.

But too many scamcoins and people trying to manipulate the market like the OP soon will bring regularization.

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[Relnarien]

1. Buy up large amounts of coins from unknown devs that are likely about to be voted onto Mintpal or wherever else people are spending lots of BTC to get their coin onto an exchange.

2. Sell hard within hours after a coin hits an exchange for the first time.

3. Use your profits to buy the same coin at the lowest price possible and then sell them at the lowest price possible.

4. Repeat for as long as you can, until you are at break-even.

5. True altruists will spend extra BTC trying to lower their prices even further.

If everyone gets on board and knows how to identify the potential scamcoins right away, it will be no longer profitable for their cheesy devs and they will at least have to up their game a little bit.

I will be very blunt -- this is a moronic idea. Even if your intention is to dump the scam-coins, the mere fact that you are buying them from the devs means that they are still making a profit from it. You would only really be hurting yourself and the victims of the scamcoin. And once you've dumped a scamcoin down to the lowest price that you could, the dev could simply pump it back up for a fraction of the profit that he/she got from you and earn even more than he/she would have otherwise. If you do that with every scamcoin that comes out, then the scam-devs will have even more incentive to keep making scamcoins because they know that they will make a huge profit from you and whoever follows your asinine idea as soon as it gets enough votes to warrant being accepted into a large exchange. Essentially, you will be invigorating the scamcoin trade, not killing it.

If you want to kill a scamcoin, then ignore it. It's that simple.

[poornamelessme]

You know I distinctly remember that when I first joined, I had to make something like 10 posts in a newbie area before being allowed into the general population.

I like the idea of requiring, say 25 posts and 3 months before being allowed to announce here.

The only potential problem with such a requirement is that there could be real devs who simply don't post here a lot, and wish to create a coin. But a reasonable requirement, like 25 posts or so, may at least slow down the pace of new coins a little bit. Not sure if it'd make a big difference in the longrun, or devs will simply prepare ahead of time with dozens of puppet accounts created in advance.

What would work, but will never happen -- all the major exchanges require identification of the dev for any coin listed on their exchange, similar to Polo's new ICD rules. It won't happen because they are greedy.

Bittrex in fact just listed vastcoin, and there is pretty decent proof it's the same dev as concealcoin, who just pulled a scam by running out on the coin. Doesn't matter, it gets listed anyway.

And if you read the vastcoin thread, you see that to some people it doesn't matter if it's a scam. So long as they make money, they don't care. And that is another problem here, there is a lack of morals of course with tons of scammy devs, but also a lack of morals amongst many of the 'investors' here.
Scam or not, it doesn't matter to them. It's difficult to protect people from something they don't even want to be protected from.

[AliceWonder]

As far as I know, its valid only to regulated markets that you need to have a special license to buy and sell the stuff.

And if we openly manipulate markets to crash coins we don't like, guess what will become a regulated market?

[nutildah]

The answer, actually, is quite simple. Just introduce a minimum activity count for ANN thread starters. This will instantly eliminate the torrent of newbie devs and P&D coins. Most of the P&D coins are being produced by the same group of people (or the same dev-for-hire). Most of regular forum members know that by now.

You know I distinctly remember that when I first joined, I had to make something like 10 posts in a newbie area before being allowed into the general population.

I like the idea of requiring, say 25 posts and 3 months before being allowed to announce here.

I like this idea... I wonder if the BurnerCoin 2.0 dev is up to 20 posts yet.

Please feel free to shoot this theory down as well if you will, but I mentioned coins that pay a lot to get on exchanges because, to me, this is a must for a scamcoin. It just seems to me like worthy, innovative coins get on exchanges on their own accord, without any sort of concerted movement to get them there.

Scamcoins are always trying to push their community to donate as much time and BTC as it takes to get a coin on the exchange.

Non-scamcoins are in for the long-haul, don't care too much about price fluctuation and are secure enough in their product that they don't have to pay money for votes (what a criminal concept in the first place).

[poornamelessme]

I like this idea... I wonder if the BurnerCoin 2.0 dev is up to 20 posts yet.

Please feel free to shoot this theory down as well if you will, but I mentioned coins that pay a lot to get on exchanges because, to me, this is a must for a scamcoin. It just seems to me like worthy, innovative coins get on exchanges on their own accord, without any sort of concerted movement to get them there.

Scamcoins are always trying to push their community to donate as much time and BTC as it takes to get a coin on the exchange.

Non-scamcoins are in for the long-haul, don't care too much about price fluctuation and are secure enough in their product that they don't have to pay money for votes (what a criminal concept in the first place).

MP has stopped the pay per vote thing. Not sure if Cryptsy has or not, and Polo voting doesn't take payments. That doesn't mean there aren't under the table sorts of payments going on, but not much anyone can do about that even if there is.

I am curious about one thing... how would people here define a scamcoin?

A coin that pushes a community to vote wouldn't necessarily be a scamcoin to me. It may not be the best coin in the the world, but it doesn't mean the dev is out to scam anyone.

A scamcoin to me is when a dev promises something and doesn't come close to delivering, when a dev abandons a coin, when a dev runs an ipo and doesn't even provide coins to people, hidden premines, or giant premines where the devs dump, and that sort of thing.

An iffy coin with a low number of unique features, perhaps a hired gun as a coder, and asking its community to vote wouldn't qualify as a scam to me. I mean, who is being scammed? It may not be the best investment, but it's not really hurting anyone.

[inigthz]

1. Buy up large amounts of coins from unknown devs that are likely about to be voted onto Mintpal or wherever else people are spending lots of BTC to get their coin onto an exchange.

2. Sell hard within hours after a coin hits an exchange for the first time.

3. Use your profits to buy the same coin at the lowest price possible and then sell them at the lowest price possible.

4. Repeat for as long as you can, until you are at break-even.

5. True altruists will spend extra BTC trying to lower their prices even further.

If everyone gets on board and knows how to identify the potential scamcoins right away, it will be no longer profitable for their cheesy devs and they will at least have to up their game a little bit.

Don't mining and ignore that.

SImple, right??

[GreenBacksTeam]

We do think something needs to be done about scams in the crypto industry as well. Clearly made a lot of people lose money, and turned a lot of people away from Cryptos. If we want this industry and movement to succeed, then Bitcoin can't be the only real option. Keep an eye out for Greenbacks Pre-Ann soon. We have real plans, and we're pushing way past just being a coin. Whitepaper will be available on launch, take a second to read it if you run across our thread.

[Spoetnik]

Operation Shit Coin Cleanup ? it's back on now LOL

[sgk]

1. Buy up large amounts of coins from unknown devs that are likely about to be voted onto Mintpal or wherever else people are spending lots of BTC to get their coin onto an exchange.

2. Sell hard within hours after a coin hits an exchange for the first time.

3. Use your profits to buy the same coin at the lowest price possible and then sell them at the lowest price possible.

4. Repeat for as long as you can, until you are at break-even.

5. True altruists will spend extra BTC trying to lower their prices even further.

If everyone gets on board and knows how to identify the potential scamcoins right away, it will be no longer profitable for their cheesy devs and they will at least have to up their game a little bit.

Or rather everyone just stop mining and buying shit-coins?

[nutildah]

I am curious about one thing... how would people here define a scamcoin?

A coin that pushes a community to vote wouldn't necessarily be a scamcoin to me. It may not be the best coin in the the world, but it doesn't mean the dev is out to scam anyone.

A scamcoin to me is when a dev promises something and doesn't come close to delivering, when a dev abandons a coin, when a dev runs an ipo and doesn't even provide coins to people, hidden premines, or giant premines where the devs dump, and that sort of thing.

An iffy coin with a low number of unique features, perhaps a hired gun as a coder, and asking its community to vote wouldn't qualify as a scam to me. I mean, who is being scammed? It may not be the best investment, but it's not really hurting anyone.

I think you answer your question quite well. But for the last part, well, just from reading through hundreds of pages of posts over the last 6 months I can safely conclude that HUNDREDS of people have lost a LOT of money ("lot" being relative to them) in scammy altcoin investments.

Its not in human nature to be the first to admit to your mistake, so not everybody will tell you the truth about the cryptocurrency investment forays. Believe it or not.

We should just keep awareness high, and while I don't know how such a thing is done, yes perhaps better vet ALT ANN thread authors as many levels as possible.

[nutildah]

Or rather everyone just stop mining and buying shit-coins?

Yeah, that's the thing. Just saying it and telling other people to do it doesn't make it happen.

I am in utter awe that people keep buying this shit, there must be a continual churn of noobs who actually believe Shitcoin 2.0 is really going to be the next bitcoin.

The community needs to be more proactive in calling out and isolating scam artists.

I'll get the list rolling.

Known Scam Artists - Stay Away from Everything They Have To Do With

#1: Iconic Expert AKA Christopher Bouzy.




Any objections so far?

[HI-TEC99]

How can a newbie pick good coins when they have no experience of this scene at all? They have no way to know if a coin is a scam or not until after they have been ripped off.

[fran2k]

This is sort of the idea that CoinShield has. Not sure how well it's going to work yet, but it will be an interesting experiment.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=657601.0

This, except that seems quite Ponzi.

[Nxtblg]

How can a newbie pick good coins when they have no experience of this scene at all? They have no way to know if a coin is a scam or not until after they have been ripped off.

Unfortunately, the same way that a newbie in the penny-stock wing of stock market picks 'em. Sorry, but this arena is largely learn as you go - which unfortunately means learning the hard way.

If there's any upside, I had to learn that I'm a lousy trader by losing a lot of money on the - yes, regulated - stock market. The altcoin markets are wilder, no doubt about that, but if I had been half my age I could have learned the same life lessons for a few hundred dollars.

And then, I could have taken what I learned to the stock market and saved thousands of dollars over my lifetime. Damn: even with its many faults and warts, the crypto markets are still a prize because there are no minimum commissions. You can get started by blowing ten dollars - ten dollars! - and the typical exchange is happy to take a 1.5-to-2.5-cent clip from you for each trade. In the big ol' stock market world, I pay ten dollars commission per trade - minimum. And I have an account with one of the cheaper discount brokers available to Canadians.

In that market, a round trip costs me twenty bucks minimum. If I tried to trade with twenty bucks, one single round trade would clean me out entirely if I break even on the trade itself. At Bter, with its 0.15% flat rate, I can trade $20 worth of crypto and a round trip is six cents. A nickel and a penny!

As for advice, the altcoin market is profoundly fad-driven. If you're going to make it as a trader, you have to be able to sniff out a growing fad and jump on it before most others do. And then, you have to jump off when everyone else is raving about it. (From experience, I know that the first part is difficult...and the second part is very difficult. For the likes of me, anyway.)

Here as well as in the stock market, I had to learn the hard way that I don't have what it takes to play the fads. I only thrive with poky, largely-ignored, out-of-the-way vehicles. Once I buy them, I have to cool my heels and wait a loooong time before I make a score. That's just the way I am, and I have to play within my limitations.

If you get your feet wet, one of your goals should be to find out your own limitations. Once you know them, play within them.

And start small -nothing wrong with having a goal of buying a new computer.  

[sandykho47]

There are simple way :
1. Don't mine it
2. Don't buy it
3. Don't join the community

That was extremely simple for me 

[poornamelessme]

Or rather everyone just stop mining and buying shit-coins?

Yeah, that's the thing. Just saying it and telling other people to do it doesn't make it happen.

I am in utter awe that people keep buying this shit, there must be a continual churn of noobs who actually believe Shitcoin 2.0 is really going to be the next bitcoin.

The community needs to be more proactive in calling out and isolating scam artists.

I'll get the list rolling.

Known Scam Artists - Stay Away from Everything They Have To Do With

#1: Iconic Expert AKA Christopher Bouzy.

Any objections so far?

I don't think that is necessarily it. I think there is a decent size group of people here who simply ride the waves. They follow troll boxes, see a new coin listed, see the hype, see a pump ... and jump in. They aren't looking to find the next bitcoin, they are hoping for a 2-10x increase in investment in a very short period of time.

When that new coin turns out to be a scam, they then go into cry-mode.  Or I should also add, if they lose money, they also go into cry-mode. People scream scam here for not only true scams, but sometimes coins they lose money on ... guess it's sort of human nature. The fault isn't their own by making a foolish investment decision, so it must be that shit/scam coin they jumped into, in the middle of a pump.

There are signs to look for, like the fellow you mentioned above. Large premines, devs associated with other iffy coins, and so on. But we can't control other people's behavior.

If enough people get burned, market forces should hopefully take care of things at least a little bit.

[poornamelessme]

How can a newbie pick good coins when they have no experience of this scene at all? They have no way to know if a coin is a scam or not until after they have been ripped off.

You can check out the link in my signature for info on coins. I don't get anything if you click there, nor think it'd make people great investors... just that it does provide info on a lot of coins.

When I started here, which really wasn't long ago, so I'm probably still considered a newbie, I thought everyone here was insane. I mean, they were pumping tons of money into projects based on a forum post, no real evidence that the coins would ever be used as a currency, nor in some cases that the coins would even be paid out. So I decided to not really invest real money into this... too risky.

Instead look for freebie coins, cheap ipos that look at least semi-decent, and start small. Things like Comm/Nem/ITC are examples of past coins that could be used as a stake. Just play with whatever you get for free... if you lose it, so be it, just wasted time, not money.

And the way I look at coins is that we don't invest in coins, but the developers. Unfortunately in many cases we have no idea who the developers are or if they are on the level. My first two targets when I started were Drk and Ethereum, just due to the fact their devs looked to be a cut above everyone else. Pick a coin with decent devs, and at least you have a shot.

[atc1]

There was already an attempt to do this. It was called Operation Cleanup or something similar. Essentially,they would buy/mine the new useless coins and would destroy them. For every so and so amount of coins destroyed,you got a coin which was then tradable on exchanges. Needless to say,creating another coin to get rid of others failed. So,no,I don;t think that you can force a coin to die. Just stick to coins that have something of value and the others will simply die out by themselves without anyone doing anything.

[nutildah]

Just stick to coins that have something of value and the others will simply die out by themselves without anyone doing anything.

The shitcoin may die out, only to be replaced by another shitcoin. That's the problem. People keep buying Shitcoin 2.0. I don't know who these people are but they buy ANYTHING thats new and thats on an exchange. Its their money to lose, but still, its a total distraction from the end goal which is develop useful alternatives to bitcoin.