Idea for how to kill the sh*t/clone/scamcoin industry

[nutildah]

1. Buy up large amounts of coins from unknown devs that are likely about to be voted onto Mintpal or wherever else people are spending lots of BTC to get their coin onto an exchange.

2. Sell hard within hours after a coin hits an exchange for the first time.

3. Use your profits to buy the same coin at the lowest price possible and then sell them at the lowest price possible.

4. Repeat for as long as you can, until you are at break-even.

5. True altruists will spend extra BTC trying to lower their prices even further.

If everyone gets on board and knows how to identify the potential scamcoins right away, it will be no longer profitable for their cheesy devs and they will at least have to up their game a little bit.

[1714709581]

1714709581

[1714709581]

1714709581

[1714709581]

1714709581

[1714709581]

1714709581

[1714709581]

1714709581

[1714709581]

1714709581

[crackerhead]

1. Buy up large amounts of coins from unknown devs that are likely about to be voted onto Mintpal or wherever else people are spending lots of BTC to get their coin onto an exchange.

2. Sell hard within hours after a coin hits an exchange for the first time.

3. Use your profits to buy the same coin at the lowest price possible and then sell them at the lowest price possible.

4. Repeat for as long as you can, until you are at break-even.

5. True altruists will spend extra BTC trying to lower their prices even further.

If everyone gets on board and knows how to identify the potential scamcoins right away, it will be no longer profitable for their cheesy devs and they will at least have to up their game a little bit.

Great idea, but we would need a huge army of people, and a lot of capital.

[poornamelessme]

1. Buy up large amounts of coins from unknown devs that are likely about to be voted onto Mintpal or wherever else people are spending lots of BTC to get their coin onto an exchange.

2. Sell hard within hours after a coin hits an exchange for the first time.

3. Use your profits to buy the same coin at the lowest price possible and then sell them at the lowest price possible.

4. Repeat for as long as you can, until you are at break-even.

5. True altruists will spend extra BTC trying to lower their prices even further.

If everyone gets on board and knows how to identify the potential scamcoins right away, it will be no longer profitable for their cheesy devs and they will at least have to up their game a little bit.

There will always be more people buying than selling, assuming people are selling at really low prices like you advocate here. All it will accomplish is those buying the dumps will make more money, while those who try this plan break even or lose money.

And how many true altruists do you think are on this forum anyway? I'd say zero.

[nutildah]

There will always be more people buying than selling, assuming people are selling at really low prices like you advocate here.

I don't think that's necessarily true given the fact that the general direction of the alt market is down, down, down. That would indicate that there is more selling than buying in general, and people tend to give up on coins rather easily.

The goal would be to minimize the amount of profit that the Pn'D devs and whales can make off of a shitcoin launch by selling into the pump. So instead of a coin shooting up 300% after launch it only shoots up 150%.

Then by funding the dump with your profits you can make people reach that "despair" phase more quickly. Hopefully the community at large is a bit more wary of scamcoins and won't continue to fund ducks that walk like a duck.

[nutildah]

And how many true altruists do you think are on this forum anyway? I'd say zero.

Well they say the human species is potentially the only truly altruistic animal, but you're right there's no evidence of that here.

Its a shame though because one truly "altruistic" whale could crush the entire shitcoin scene with about 10 BTC.

[poornamelessme]

I don't think that's necessarily true given the fact that the general direction of the alt market is down, down, down. That would indicate that there is more selling than buying in general, and people tend to give up on coins rather easily.

The goal would be to minimize the amount of profit that the Pn'D devs and whales can make off of a shitcoin launch by selling into the pump. So instead of a coin shooting up 300% after launch it only shoots up 150%.

Then by funding the dump with your profits you can make people reach that "despair" phase more quickly. Hopefully the community at large is a bit more wary of scamcoins and won't continue to fund ducks that walk like a duck.

The problem with this sort of plan is first expecting profits to begin with. It's not a sure-thing that people can pick out what coins are going to go to a larger exchange, and even if they do, it's no guarantee than they can dump for a profit there. Quite often the profitable pumps occur before a coin hits a larger exchange. And unless you just happened to buy in cheaper, jumping into a pump is also no guarantee of a profit ... quite often the opposite.

But say we assume people can pick scam coins before they are on a larger exchange and sell for a profit. First off, how do they determine what is a scam before it's even a scam? If a coin has high volume, looks like it's going to a bigger exchange, why would someone automatically say, hey, this coin must be a scam? If it's overly shady, scammy behavior, dev not about, etc of course it's a sign the coin is a scam. But by then it's too late.

You also expect people to forgo profits in order to drive the price of a coin down. I'm extremely doubtful that is even possible, as you'd need an extremely large bankroll and a willingness to sell a coin for peanuts. And then hope that other people wouldn't simply gobble up the cheap coins and wait out the dumpers ... hence why I said I don't think it'd work.

[AliceWonder]

Many countries have laws about this too.

e.g. in your quest to take down an alt-coin, you could end up behind bars.

[HI-TEC99]

Many countries have laws about this too.

e.g. in your quest to take down an alt-coin, you could end up behind bars.

I'm not a legal expert. Could you give an example of a particular country's law that applies to this?

[nutildah]

Many countries have laws about this too.

e.g. in your quest to take down an alt-coin, you could end up behind bars.

Has this ever happened?

I also am curious about examples. I would think people like IE would be behind bars first.

He's the canary in the coalmine.

[cryptozim]

This is sort of the idea that CoinShield has. Not sure how well it's going to work yet, but it will be an interesting experiment.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=657601.0

[AliceWonder]

It's called "Bear Raiding" - http://www.girardgibbs.com/market-manipulation-cases/

[AliceWonder]

Furthermore, for those of you who don't want regulations on crypto-currencies, openly talking about colluding with others to manipulate the market is going to bring regulation.

Market manipulation is very serious and should not be done if a free market is what you want.

-=-

Furthermore, there have been numerous times when someone is accused of doing something on the Internet and a bunch of Internet people take action only to later find out the evidence was flawed or even completely untrue. This is why legal systems exist for taking action.

Vigilante justice doesn't work, the target needs to be able to defend themselves with law.

But market manipulation, that's stooping down to the same level as the scam coins.

Best thing you can do is get the word out. Demonstrate a coin is a scam on a public forum, and let the free market avoid it.

[poornamelessme]

Vigilante justice doesn't work, the target needs to be able to defend themselves with law.

But market manipulation, that's stooping down to the same level as the scam coins.

Best thing you can do is get the word out. Demonstrate a coin is a scam on a public forum, and let the free market avoid it.

I've suggested education as a way to combat scam coins/shady behavior in several threads here, including that shitcoin killing thread. Some folks have gone around in threads pointing out shady behavior, but more often or not it's people just going around like a maniac spreading FUD. The noise gets drowned out.

Sometimes I think half the people here just like to complain. They got cheated by some coin, so they want to lash out... against every coin out there... it doesn't matter what method they use, or if it'll even work. Or they think that killing new coins will somehow make the older, more established alt they are holding worth more.

Problems arise when nobody can define what a 'scamcoin/shitcoin' even is. Determining a scamcoin after the scam is meaningless. Bias creeps in, and one person's treasure is another person's scamcoin. It basically turns into: the shitcoins I am holding are fine, but everything else is a scam.

[nutildah]

Furthermore, for those of you who don't want regulations on crypto-currencies, openly talking about colluding with others to manipulate the market is going to bring regulation.

Market manipulation is very serious and should not be done if a free market is what you want.

-=-

Furthermore, there have been numerous times when someone is accused of doing something on the Internet and a bunch of Internet people take action only to later find out the evidence was flawed or even completely untrue. This is why legal systems exist for taking action.

Vigilante justice doesn't work, the target needs to be able to defend themselves with law.

But market manipulation, that's stooping down to the same level as the scam coins.

Best thing you can do is get the word out. Demonstrate a coin is a scam on a public forum, and let the free market avoid it.

How is this plan not getting the word out? If you coordinate a market manipulation in public, is it really manipulation, or is it just the free market reacting to the exchange of ideas?

Innocent people are wrongly executed all the time. The regulations of the justice system are not perfect.

[nutildah]

Problems arise when nobody can define what a 'scamcoin/shitcoin' even is. Determining a scamcoin after the scam is meaningless. Bias creeps in, and one person's treasure is another person's scamcoin. It basically turns into: the shitcoins I am holding are fine, but everything else is a scam.

I agree that subjectivity is a problem but that doesn't mean that scams don't exist and everything is a gray blur.

[poornamelessme]

Problems arise when nobody can define what a 'scamcoin/shitcoin' even is. Determining a scamcoin after the scam is meaningless. Bias creeps in, and one person's treasure is another person's scamcoin. It basically turns into: the shitcoins I am holding are fine, but everything else is a scam.

I agree that subjectivity is a problem but that doesn't mean that scams don't exist and everything is a gray blur.

Agreed. For blatant scams, I'd suggest the same as the other poster -- just post why something is a scam in the forums. Don't use FUD, don't use giant red letters, just state the case and either people will take heed or not... up to them.

Unfortunately a lot of the larger scams aren't known scams until after the fact. A dev vanishes on a coin ... how would decreasing its price via some price manipulation plan, help the situation any? And obviously we can't post about a vanishing dev until he actually vanishes.

An exchange goes under, takes everyone's coins with them. Again, there is no way to really do much about it.

A dev promises grand things, yet just has a whitepaper. Is it a scam? Very possibly, but nobody can say for certain.

A coin runs an ipo... people cry about devs possibly running away with the funds. Scam or not? Again, very possible, but we can't say with certainty until after the fact.

My point being, there is only so much anyone can do about a lot of scammy behavior. So yeah, it could be useful to point out blatant scams, giant premines, iffy devs and potentially scammy behavior, but I'm not entirely sure how effective any course of action would be. Only so much can be done.

[rugrats]

1. Buy up large amounts of coins from unknown devs that are likely about to be voted onto Mintpal or wherever else people are spending lots of BTC to get their coin onto an exchange.

2. Sell hard within hours after a coin hits an exchange for the first time.

3. Use your profits to buy the same coin at the lowest price possible and then sell them at the lowest price possible.

4. Repeat for as long as you can, until you are at break-even.

5. True altruists will spend extra BTC trying to lower their prices even further.

If everyone gets on board and knows how to identify the potential scamcoins right away, it will be no longer profitable for their cheesy devs and they will at least have to up their game a little bit.

This idea is flawed due to several reasons; chiefly, because there is no cost associated with producing altcoins. It's a matter of tweaking codes and reusing the same infrastructure. It might even encourage them to pump out more coins with the guarantee of a ready buyer. Further, who among us is altrusitic enough to waste his/her own money to protect a community that refuses to protect itself?

The answer, actually, is quite simple. Just introduce a minimum activity count for ANN thread starters. This will instantly eliminate the torrent of newbie devs and P&D coins. Most of the P&D coins are being produced by the same group of people (or the same dev-for-hire). Most of regular forum members know that by now.

[AliceWonder]

The answer, actually, is quite simple. Just introduce a minimum activity count for ANN thread starters. This will instantly eliminate the torrent of newbie devs and P&D coins. Most of the P&D coins are being produced by the same group of people (or the same dev-for-hire). Most of regular forum members know that by now.

You know I distinctly remember that when I first joined, I had to make something like 10 posts in a newbie area before being allowed into the general population.

I like the idea of requiring, say 25 posts and 3 months before being allowed to announce here.

[vhong]

The answer, actually, is quite simple. Just introduce a minimum activity count for ANN thread starters. This will instantly eliminate the torrent of newbie devs and P&D coins. Most of the P&D coins are being produced by the same group of people (or the same dev-for-hire). Most of regular forum members know that by now.

You know I distinctly remember that when I first joined, I had to make something like 10 posts in a newbie area before being allowed into the general population.

I like the idea of requiring, say 25 posts and 3 months before being allowed to announce here.

With that kind of requirements it may lessen the amount of scam coins coming out very often.

[Palmdetroit]

The answer, actually, is quite simple. Just introduce a minimum activity count for ANN thread starters. This will instantly eliminate the torrent of newbie devs and P&D coins. Most of the P&D coins are being produced by the same group of people (or the same dev-for-hire). Most of regular forum members know that by now.

You know I distinctly remember that when I first joined, I had to make something like 10 posts in a newbie area before being allowed into the general population.

I like the idea of requiring, say 25 posts and 3 months before being allowed to announce here.

With that kind of requirements it may lessen the amount of scam coins coming out very often.

Not a bad idea,.

Ultimately the market decides the creation rate, or even the existence of, scamcoins. If it prefers scamcoins, which it does, then scamcoins is what it will get.