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Author Topic: Using cashout services for trading  (Read 8677 times)
Darth Severus
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May 02, 2011, 05:51:58 PM
 #1

What are the best methods to trade with BTC to real money? Let´s discuss it here. My hope is that this discussions will increase the change options and services. I write down a list of known cashout services here, some of them I have checked on my own, others not so far.

By mail or mixed (multiple withdrawal options)
They won't allow any kind of exhange system, but if BTC is traded between people it shouldn´t be a problem. Chargebacks could be a problem, cause then the BTC change service would need to hold the bitcoins back for some days. The accounts of such an BTC change service is then under risk to be closed. So maybe they can only be used to trade person to person while using some kind of reputation system
Paypal.com
Moneybookers.com: No Chargeback?, MB-Debitcard with cashout for 1.80€ ww available
Paymate.com (US, AU, NZ)
Dwolla.org (US-only?)
Alertpay.com
Amazon Payments
Google Checkout
Popmoney.com
Serve.com
CertaPay.com (Canada only)
Checkfreecorp.com (US only?)
Alipay.com (biggest in China, cooperates with Paymate)

By cellphone using a cc or debit
Trading from card to card without giving your card number away. Registration is easier than at Paypal or Moneybookers, cause they don´t want a copy of your passport or something like this. Only card and cellphone needed.
Venmo.com (500$ wt-Limit)
Liqpay.com (Ukrainian)
Xipwire.com (US only?)

By flexible voucher (Code/Scan per Mail)
Can be used for online-shopping, but they can also be cashed into some debits/cc. Vouchers should only be buyed from a trader with a good reputation, like the BTC change service itself. They maybe can become worthless even after they have been used. Scans of for e.g. Ukash cards are much more saver than a code per mail.
Ukash.com
Paysafecard.com
Moneypak.com

By specific voucher (Code/Scan per Mail)
like restaurants, amazon, etc. This is more shopping than cashout. Vouchers should only be buyed from a trader with a good reputation, like the BTC change service itself. They maybe can become worthless even after they have been used, for e.g. Amazon may let you pay again if the voucher was illegal. They may also have been buyed by using a stolen card, and the person buying it gets the trouble. On the other hand, if these vouchers are coming from a reliable trader this may work very well.

Debitcards with multible cashin options
for e.g. the flexible vouchers above
Neteller.com

By other virtuell currency
Selling BTC for a virtuell currency and then withdraw this for e.g. by debitcard
Ecardone.com
Xmlgold.net
Wmtransfer.com (aka Webmoney, Russian)
VirWoX.com (Exchanger)

By money-transfer companys
There are alternatives to Western Union
Moneygram.com
Xoom.com (from US-Account or cc/debit)
Transferwise.com Bank2Bank incl. EUR2GBP exchange

By online-shopping / customer2shop
These processors can only be used for onlineshopping if the shop is accepted by them. Someone may open a shop for BTC-vouchers.
Cashu.com (Arab, withdrawal not possible)
Clickandbuy.com (German)
Allpayments.net (British)
Billsafe.de (German)

By payment processors
A BTC service could sell BTC directly to customers, if it has its own way to buy or get BTC
Mopay.com
Verotel.com
Plimus.com
2Checkout.com
Nochex.com
Free-merchant.com (Low Price Guarantee)
Hyperwallet.com (Payment platform for companys)
Propay.com

Directly to customers in RL
Gopayment.com
Squareup.com
Cash

Other
Ebay, by selling BTC vouchers
Debit-Gift Cards
Virtual debit cards
Checks
Money by mail
Bankwire

Please add more, and write to which category they could be counted. First it wasn´t my plan to update the first article permanently, now I may do this sporadically.

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SgtSpike
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May 02, 2011, 06:15:10 PM
 #2

Does anyone just do a plain old check?  I'd go for that...
Garrett Burgwardt
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May 02, 2011, 08:28:51 PM
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I do checks, both ways. PM me for details.
Darth Severus
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May 03, 2011, 02:32:09 AM
 #4

I added some more above instead in a new message, since there are as good as no replies.

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May 03, 2011, 03:53:54 AM
 #5

Quote
What are the best methods to trade with BTC to real money?
I'm exchanging btc for silver for those who want to cash out of their coins.  I personally consider silver "real money". 
PLATO
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May 03, 2011, 05:13:49 AM
 #6

Buy bitcoins with cash, buy CC's with bitcoins: https://www.bitcoin4cash.com/
Buy bitcoins with cash ($0 fees), buy cash with bitcoins (flat $5 fee) : https://www.bitcoin2cash.com/

The owner of https://www.bitcoin2cash.com/ has helped me out tremendously on my #BitcoinRoadtrip (including exchanging the funds I collected for Alabama tornado victims) and I personally recommend his service.

edit: also, see this thread for discussion of decentralized/distributed global cash exchanges: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7096
dacoinminster
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May 03, 2011, 01:15:57 PM
 #7

I'm experimenting with using ebay to sell my bitcoins:

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7072.0

I'm using a physical gift certificate, shipped with a tracking number so that I qualify for seller protection.

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May 03, 2011, 02:26:12 PM
 #8

I'm experimenting with using ebay to sell my bitcoins:

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7072.0

I'm using a physical gift certificate, shipped with a tracking number so that I qualify for seller protection.

Could you ship carrots via ebay ?
fmk63
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May 03, 2011, 02:46:09 PM
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A few days ago VirWoX (https://www.virwox.com) has started to accept BTC for Linden Dollars. I just gave it a try and exchanged 10 BTC for Lindens, then exchanged the Lindens to Euro and sent them to my PayPal. Arrived almost instantly.

It is my understanding that you do not even need a valid Second Life avatar to do this (I have one and have used VirWoX before for getting Lindens).

Also, I have to say I don't understand the whole talk about reputation, trust etc. in the context of cashing out. Since bitcoin transactions are irreversible, I believe accepting BTC and giving X in return is a risk-free operation for everybody (including PayPal). The risky part is accepting real money for buying bitcoins. No?
dacoinminster
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May 03, 2011, 03:24:43 PM
 #10

Could you ship carrots via ebay ?

For my next auction, I'm going to offer a gift certificate good for bitcoins OR carrots: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7072.msg104604#msg104604

SgtSpike
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May 03, 2011, 03:54:57 PM
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A few days ago VirWoX (https://www.virwox.com) has started to accept BTC for Linden Dollars. I just gave it a try and exchanged 10 BTC for Lindens, then exchanged the Lindens to Euro and sent them to my PayPal. Arrived almost instantly.

It is my understanding that you do not even need a valid Second Life avatar to do this (I have one and have used VirWoX before for getting Lindens).

Also, I have to say I don't understand the whole talk about reputation, trust etc. in the context of cashing out. Since bitcoin transactions are irreversible, I believe accepting BTC and giving X in return is a risk-free operation for everybody (including PayPal). The risky part is accepting real money for buying bitcoins. No?
Paypal transactions can be reversed multiple ways... most commonly, one can paypal with a credit card, then dispute the claim with their credit card company.  Paypal will reverse the whole thing, and whoever was selling the BTC is left with nothing.
Darth Severus
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May 03, 2011, 04:55:39 PM
 #12

So what´s new? Update:

By mail or mixed (multiple withdrawal options)
Amazon Payments
Google Checkout

By payment processors
Plimus.com
2Checkout.com
Nochex.com

Debitcards with multible cashin options
Neteller.com

By other virtuell currency
VirWoX.com

Other
Ebay, by selling BTC vouchers
Debit-Giftcards
Checks
Bankwire

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Stephen Gornick
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May 03, 2011, 06:45:01 PM
 #13

Please add more, and write to which category they could be counted.

If you are intending a comprehensive list, there is also:

  By payment processor:

  - http://www.gopayment.com  (credit card "merchant accounts" for individuals)
  - http://www.squareup.com  (credit card "merchant accounts" for individuals)

  - http://www.serve.com  (a competitor to PayPal from AmEx.  Suffers the same issues, e.g., chargebacks)

  - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Popmoney http://www.popmoney.com   (ACH-based payment service)

  Intra-Bank (within the same bank) person-to-person (P2P) transfers:
   - http://www.ingdirect.com/mobile  
   - http://infocenter.bankofamerica.com/ic2/online-banking/transfer-funds-inside-bank/?panel=qna&qna=x208

You listed AlertPay under Virtual Currency.  AlertPay is not virtual currency, they are similar to PayPal and suffer the same issues e.g., chargebacks).  The account balances are held on behalf of the customer, though their assurance that those funds are safe may not be entirely assuring:
   http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/AlertPay#Risks

Your list might be more suitable as a wiki page, in table form.

Darth Severus
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May 04, 2011, 12:39:45 AM
 #14

It was ment so that you post other alternatives, but maybe I should also edit the first article and add all there.

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PLATO
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May 04, 2011, 12:40:43 AM
 #15

Please do! This will help make it a nice reference, so future visitors don't have to read the whole thread.
Darth Severus
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May 04, 2011, 11:11:50 AM
 #16

I updated again, some corrections and more comments.

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ColdHardMetal
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May 04, 2011, 11:58:01 AM
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A few days ago VirWoX (https://www.virwox.com) has started to accept BTC for Linden Dollars. I just gave it a try and exchanged 10 BTC for Lindens, then exchanged the Lindens to Euro and sent them to my PayPal. Arrived almost instantly.


What % did you end up paying in fees to make that happen?

It sounds like a good workaround as long as the cost isn't too onerous.

fmk63
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May 04, 2011, 03:11:21 PM
 #18

Paypal transactions can be reversed multiple ways... most commonly, one can paypal with a credit card, then dispute the claim with their credit card company.  Paypal will reverse the whole thing, and whoever was selling the BTC is left with nothing.
I understand that part. However, if I'm not selling BTC, but accepting BTC and paying people with PayPal, I see no risk involved.
SgtSpike
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May 04, 2011, 06:27:11 PM
 #19

Paypal transactions can be reversed multiple ways... most commonly, one can paypal with a credit card, then dispute the claim with their credit card company.  Paypal will reverse the whole thing, and whoever was selling the BTC is left with nothing.
I understand that part. However, if I'm not selling BTC, but accepting BTC and paying people with PayPal, I see no risk involved.
Well, whoever you are paying is at risk of you de-authorizing the transaction through your credit card company or paypal dispute or whatever other means.  Just because you trust yourself doesn't mean everyone else does.  Wink

There wouldn't be any risk to you, but there IS risk for the other people involved.
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May 06, 2011, 08:01:41 AM
 #20

Not sure which of the categories this would fall under:
  - http://transferwise.com/
   Send money and convert between GBP and EUR.  Flat £1 transfer fee

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