Want to know about Provably fair...

[pikabit]

Gambling sucks, you will lose in the long run due to house edge.

But thats the thing with gambling, u gotta know when to stop.

[Simon8x]

Gambling sucks, you will lose in the long run due to house edge.

But thats the thing with gambling, u gotta know when to stop.

Even when there is no house edge, you will lose to the house in the long run since you have a lot less capital than the house (gambler's ruin).

[BitCoinDream]

Gambling sucks, you will lose in the long run due to house edge.

But thats the thing with gambling, u gotta know when to stop.

Even when there is no house edge, you will lose to the house in the long run since you have a lot less capital than the house (gambler's ruin).

How come having less capital confirm loss for an user ?

[williamj2543]

I own a gambling website, so if anyone has any questions about provably fair ask me.

[cech4204a]

i don't know how to check if a game is provably fair, and if it is fair at all, but i did play at many many sites that say ''provably fair''. I wagered quite a lot at some of them and i didn't notice they were cheating, so i don't think that any of them are cheating. They don't even have no need to cheat, most of those sites are very profitable anyways.

[BitCoinDream]

I own a gambling website, so if anyone has any questions about provably fair ask me.

What is the URL of your gambling website ?

[(Lithium)]

Better don't bet or only bet on live casinos, if you do.

I don't trust the provably fair allegances.

[rarkenin]

Better don't bet or only bet on live casinos, if you do.

I don't trust the provably fair allegances.

The point of provably random sites is that you can verify the randomness using cryptography.

[Brewins]

Better don't bet or only bet on live casinos, if you do.

I don't trust the provably fair allegances.

The point of provably random sites is that you can verify the randomness using cryptography.

Not everyone understand crypto, so not everyone can verify without blind trusting someone else

And even if crypto theory is perfect, there are still flaws that the implementation can have, so there is aways some room to your inner paranoid bothers you, even if you are expert(after all, NSI managed to put backdoors in most of the major internet cryptography)

[BitCoinDream]

Better don't bet or only bet on live casinos, if you do.

I don't trust the provably fair allegances.

The point of provably random sites is that you can verify the randomness using cryptography.

Not everyone understand crypto, so not everyone can verify without blind trusting someone else

And even if crypto theory is perfect, there are still flaws that the implementation can have, so there is aways some room to your inner paranoid bothers you, even if you are expert(after all, NSI managed to put backdoors in most of the major internet cryptography)

I think by NSI u mean NSA. But what r u saying afterwards ? There are backdoors to SHA-256. Then, NSA can calculate the private key from a bitcoin address ?

[rarkenin]

I think by NSI u mean NSA. But what r u saying afterwards ? There are backdoors to SHA-256. Then, NSA can calculate the private key from a bitcoin address ?

I doubt that the NSA would be trying to scam you out of an extra few percent of your gaming rewards. That being said, SHA being broken is not sufficient to get private keys out. ECDSA would need to be broken (either through solution of discrete log problem, or some more creative way) before private keys can be obtained.

[BitCoinDream]

I think by NSI u mean NSA. But what r u saying afterwards ? There are backdoors to SHA-256. Then, NSA can calculate the private key from a bitcoin address ?

I doubt that the NSA would be trying to scam you out of an extra few percent of your gaming rewards. That being said, SHA being broken is not sufficient to get private keys out. ECDSA would need to be broken (either through solution of discrete log problem, or some more creative way) before private keys can be obtained.

But, the person above me is claiming every cryptography has a backdoor. Is not there an open source cryptography where we can see what is really happening inside ? In an opensource project like Bitcoin, why a closed source SHA has been implemented, if the probability of having backdoor cant be verified ?

[DeathAndTaxes]

But, the person above me is claiming every cryptography has a backdoor. Is not there an open source cryptography where we can see what is really happening inside ? In an opensource project like Bitcoin, why a closed source SHA has been implemented, if the probability of having backdoor cant be verified ?

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.  What makes you think SHA-2 is "closed source".  The algorithm is publicly available.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-2#Pseudocode


That is a cornerstone of any strong cryptography.  The algorithm is still secure even if the attacker knows everything except the secret.  If a system needs to keep the algorithm secret in order to remain secure then it is nothing more than feel good security and will be broken wide open relatively quickly. There are no widely used cryptographic system where the algorithm is a secret.  All the algorithms of the cryptographic primitives used in Bitcoin are public knowledge.

[BitCoinDream]

But, the person above me is claiming every cryptography has a backdoor. Is not there an open source cryptography where we can see what is really happening inside ? In an opensource project like Bitcoin, why a closed source SHA has been implemented, if the probability of having backdoor cant be verified ?

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.  What makes you think SHA-2 is "closed source".  The algorithm is publicly available.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-2#Pseudocode


That is a cornerstone of any strong cryptography.  The algorithm is still secure even if the attacker knows everything except the secret.  If a system needs to keep the algorithm secret in order to remain secure then it is nothing more than feel good security and will be broken wide open relatively quickly. There are no widely used cryptographic system where the algorithm is a secret.  All the algorithms of the cryptographic primitives used in Bitcoin are public knowledge.

As i can see in the algo, there is no backdoor as such. Then why it is said time & again that NSA may have a backdoor to decode SHA-256 ?

[rarkenin]

As i can see in the algo, there is no backdoor as such. Then why it is said time & again that NSA may have a backdoor to decode SHA-256 ?

If you can prove there is no backdoor, then you either a) know something very mathematically powerful that nobody else knows yet, or b) are misguided as to what a backdoor is.

Nobody has been able to mathematically rule out a backdoor so far, even in an "open-source" algorithm. Remember heartbleed? That was a backdoor in an open-source cryptosystem, that may have been known by some organizations, that may have been able to use it before others even knew about it.

A backdoor is not something that is plainly evident when looking at the code; in fact it should not be evident at all. However, some organization may have knowledge of some mathematical procedure that they can use to reverse a hash, find a collision, or otherwise do things that a cryptosystem assumes they cannot do.

[BitCoinDream]

As i can see in the algo, there is no backdoor as such. Then why it is said time & again that NSA may have a backdoor to decode SHA-256 ?

If you can prove there is no backdoor, then you either a) know something very mathematically powerful that nobody else knows yet, or b) are misguided as to what a backdoor is.

Nobody has been able to mathematically rule out a backdoor so far, even in an "open-source" algorithm. Remember heartbleed? That was a backdoor in an open-source cryptosystem, that may have been known by some organizations, that may have been able to use it before others even knew about it.

A backdoor is not something that is plainly evident when looking at the code; in fact it should not be evident at all. However, some organization may have knowledge of some mathematical procedure that they can use to reverse a hash, find a collision, or otherwise do things that a cryptosystem assumes they cannot do.

Ok... then it is my ignorance. By backdoor, I meant, some secret code/lib used the o/p of which is only known to NSA. Or at least the i/p and a function by which the secret code is generated, e.g. MS's PRNG, where MS does not know the o/p, but given the correct i/p variables, they can calculate the o/p as the function is known to them.

[Wusolini]

I see some gambling sites mention that they are provably fair. They provide some seed and ask to check some hash or whatever. My question is, can this fairness really be checked from outside ? Where are they twisting to make sure the house's win ?

Yes, it can.
.....

P.S. This's only principle, and can be used in various way. You should check description on particular site.

Thanks wusolini, you explained very well, I also always thought how probably fair work.

You're welcome.

I see some gambling sites mention that they are provably fair. They provide some seed and ask to check some hash or whatever. My question is, can this fairness really be checked from outside ? Where are they twisting to make sure the house's win ?

Yes, it can.

.....

That is an awesome explanation. I wonder how the house make sure that they win in the long term ? Do they really gamble with the user choice ?

I'm glad you understand, I've tried to make it in simple.

there is always a some formula, that guarantees long time profit to operator. And if not, it can be just adapted  . So don't worry, casinos will never bankrupt (as long as they have active players)

[ranochigo]

Gambling sucks, you will lose in the long run due to house edge.

But thats the thing with gambling, u gotta know when to stop.

Even with no edge, the variance will hit you in the long run. Even though mathematically, you are not suppose to hit X loses in X rolls, it can be faster since you will never experience the expected streak. Rolls does not affect each other too, if you hit a bad streak, your next streak may not necessary be a win streak.

[BitCoinDream]

I see some gambling sites mention that they are provably fair. They provide some seed and ask to check some hash or whatever. My question is, can this fairness really be checked from outside ? Where are they twisting to make sure the house's win ?

Yes, it can.
.....

P.S. This's only principle, and can be used in various way. You should check description on particular site.

Thanks wusolini, you explained very well, I also always thought how probably fair work.

You're welcome.

I see some gambling sites mention that they are provably fair. They provide some seed and ask to check some hash or whatever. My question is, can this fairness really be checked from outside ? Where are they twisting to make sure the house's win ?

Yes, it can.

.....

That is an awesome explanation. I wonder how the house make sure that they win in the long term ? Do they really gamble with the user choice ?

I'm glad you understand, I've tried to make it in simple.

there is always a some formula, that guarantees long time profit to operator. And if not, it can be just adapted  . So don't worry, casinos will never bankrupt (as long as they have active players)

So, do u mean, the program inside is rigged for the long run that make sure the house will always win ?

[ranochigo]

I see some gambling sites mention that they are provably fair. They provide some seed and ask to check some hash or whatever. My question is, can this fairness really be checked from outside ? Where are they twisting to make sure the house's win ?

Yes, it can.
.....

P.S. This's only principle, and can be used in various way. You should check description on particular site.

Thanks wusolini, you explained very well, I also always thought how probably fair work.

You're welcome.

I see some gambling sites mention that they are provably fair. They provide some seed and ask to check some hash or whatever. My question is, can this fairness really be checked from outside ? Where are they twisting to make sure the house's win ?

Yes, it can.

.....

That is an awesome explanation. I wonder how the house make sure that they win in the long term ? Do they really gamble with the user choice ?

I'm glad you understand, I've tried to make it in simple.

there is always a some formula, that guarantees long time profit to operator. And if not, it can be just adapted  . So don't worry, casinos will never bankrupt (as long as they have active players)

So, do u mean, the program inside is rigged for the long run that make sure the house will always win ?

I think he meant house edge can affect the profits. Variable house edge will increase the house edge if the house lose BTC and decrease when the house have more profits.