Bitcoin is a hot target for criminals and money launderers.

[Mobius]

So is every other fiat currency in the world.....

/Topic

Cash fiat is a target for criminals, however it generally will have a smaller percentage of total transaction volume of criminal transactions then what I would estimate that BTC has.

[polynesia]

So is every other fiat currency in the world.....

/Topic

Cash fiat is a target for criminals, however it generally will have a smaller percentage of total transaction volume of criminal transactions then what I would estimate that BTC has.

 
I disagree. Fiat cash has and will be the most preferred way for transacting in the criminal world.
Cash is more anonymous than bitcoin.

Look at the numbers involved here.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/money-laundering-and-the-drug-trade-the-role-of-the-banks/5334205

”The identified problems included a once massive backlog of over 17,000 alertsidentifying possible suspicious activity that had yet to be reviewed; ineffective methods foridentifying suspicious activity; a failure to file timely Suspicious Activity Reports with U.S. law enforcement; … a 3-year failure by HBUS [a HSBC affiliate] , from mid-2006 to mid-2009, to conduct any AML monitoring of $15 billion in bulk cash transactions … a failure to monitor $60 trillion in annual wire transfer activity by customers …


And this is just one bank. 

[Mobius]

So is every other fiat currency in the world.....

/Topic

Cash fiat is a target for criminals, however it generally will have a smaller percentage of total transaction volume of criminal transactions then what I would estimate that BTC has.

 
I disagree. Fiat cash has and will be the most preferred way for transacting in the criminal world.
Cash is more anonymous than bitcoin.

Look at the numbers involved here.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/money-laundering-and-the-drug-trade-the-role-of-the-banks/5334205

”The identified problems included a once massive backlog of over 17,000 alertsidentifying possible suspicious activity that had yet to be reviewed; ineffective methods foridentifying suspicious activity; a failure to file timely Suspicious Activity Reports with U.S. law enforcement; … a 3-year failure by HBUS [a HSBC affiliate] , from mid-2006 to mid-2009, to conduct any AML monitoring of $15 billion in bulk cash transactions … a failure to monitor $60 trillion in annual wire transfer activity by customers …


And this is just one bank. 

All of these transactions were not from illegal activity, they are just transactions that should have been reported by the bank. It is likely IMO that over 99% of the transactions involved legal transactions (likely immigrants sending money home to their families) but the bank was fined because they did not report them so they could be looked at by the government.

[polynesia]

So is every other fiat currency in the world.....

/Topic

Cash fiat is a target for criminals, however it generally will have a smaller percentage of total transaction volume of criminal transactions then what I would estimate that BTC has.

 
I disagree. Fiat cash has and will be the most preferred way for transacting in the criminal world.
Cash is more anonymous than bitcoin.

Look at the numbers involved here.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/money-laundering-and-the-drug-trade-the-role-of-the-banks/5334205

”The identified problems included a once massive backlog of over 17,000 alertsidentifying possible suspicious activity that had yet to be reviewed; ineffective methods foridentifying suspicious activity; a failure to file timely Suspicious Activity Reports with U.S. law enforcement; … a 3-year failure by HBUS [a HSBC affiliate] , from mid-2006 to mid-2009, to conduct any AML monitoring of $15 billion in bulk cash transactions … a failure to monitor $60 trillion in annual wire transfer activity by customers …


And this is just one bank. 

All of these transactions were not from illegal activity, they are just transactions that should have been reported by the bank. It is likely IMO that over 99% of the transactions involved legal transactions (likely immigrants sending money home to their families) but the bank was fined because they did not report them so they could be looked at by the government.

The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?

[bounst]

All this is due to the advantages of bitcoin, if they despise bitcoin, then bitcoin is no longer necessary

[botany]

All this is due to the advantages of bitcoin, if they despise bitcoin, then bitcoin is no longer necessary

Why would they despise bitcoins?

[Mobius]

So is every other fiat currency in the world.....

/Topic

Cash fiat is a target for criminals, however it generally will have a smaller percentage of total transaction volume of criminal transactions then what I would estimate that BTC has.

 
I disagree. Fiat cash has and will be the most preferred way for transacting in the criminal world.
Cash is more anonymous than bitcoin.

Look at the numbers involved here.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/money-laundering-and-the-drug-trade-the-role-of-the-banks/5334205

”The identified problems included a once massive backlog of over 17,000 alertsidentifying possible suspicious activity that had yet to be reviewed; ineffective methods foridentifying suspicious activity; a failure to file timely Suspicious Activity Reports with U.S. law enforcement; … a 3-year failure by HBUS [a HSBC affiliate] , from mid-2006 to mid-2009, to conduct any AML monitoring of $15 billion in bulk cash transactions … a failure to monitor $60 trillion in annual wire transfer activity by customers …


And this is just one bank. 

All of these transactions were not from illegal activity, they are just transactions that should have been reported by the bank. It is likely IMO that over 99% of the transactions involved legal transactions (likely immigrants sending money home to their families) but the bank was fined because they did not report them so they could be looked at by the government.

The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?

Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

[tee-rex]

The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?

Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.

[botany]

The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?

Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.

Probably true, given the total number of USD in circulation.
But it doesn't take away the fact that cash (fiat) is the most popular means of exchange for criminals.

[Fray]

The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?

Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.

I would think this stat would likely make bitcoin look very bad. With that being said I think the overall percentage of drug and illegal related trade is still very low when compared to legit trade, and the illegal trade can be fought with law enforcement.

[sergio]

Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

Nonsense. if that was the case they would not accept dollars.

Dollars fund wars.
Bitcoins do not fund wars.

War is in general a criminal act, few if any wars are in self defense, most wars are theft by a larger country against a smaller one because they can get away it.

but not because it if theft by a country  it stops being theft, it may not be theft under the law because that same country that doing the theft is the one writing the law, but if we were to hear from the smaller country the one that is on the losing end they would say it is theft.

That is why in the world an international court with power it is highly needed, not a symbolical one with absolutely no power.

Going back to Bitcoin, Bitcoin is much more transparent than the dollar, the rules are precise and well known by everyone, there is even a public ledger which is the blockchain, on the other hand the Dollars operates in a very closed way with no transparency.

So if you are a crook your currency of choice should be the dollar, plus in comparison to Bitcoin they are easy to counterfeit.

[tee-rex]

The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?

Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.

I would think this stat would likely make bitcoin look very bad. With that being said I think the overall percentage of drug and illegal related trade is still very low when compared to legit trade, and the illegal trade can be fought with law enforcement.

Yes, you are probably right, but we also shouldn't fail to consider that what you call "legit trade" primarily consists of speculation and online casinos' transactions.

[CoinsCoinsEverywhere]

Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

Nonsense. if that was the case they would not accept dollars.

Dollars fund wars.
Bitcoins do not fund wars.

War is in general a criminal act, few if any wars are in self defense, most wars are theft by a larger country against a smaller one because they can get away it.

but not because it if theft by a country  it stops being theft, it may not be theft under the law because that same country that doing the theft is the one writing the law, but if we were to hear from the smaller country the one that is on the losing end they would say it is theft.

That is why in the world an international court with power it is highly needed, not a symbolical one with absolutely no power.

Going back to Bitcoin, Bitcoin is much more transparent than the dollar, the rules are precise and well known by everyone, there is even a public ledger which is the blockchain, on the other hand the Dollars operates in a very closed way with no transparency.

So if you are a crook your currency of choice should be the dollar, plus in comparison to Bitcoin they are easy to counterfeit.

I agree that wars suck, and dollars do fund wars.  But how do you know that bitcoin doesn't fund wars, or that it won't in the future?  How do you know that people on the other side of the world aren't funding some of the wars going on in the Middle East and Ukraine?  Not to mention the potential use for funding terrorist activities...

[zedicus]

The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?

Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.

I would think this stat would likely make bitcoin look very bad. With that being said I think the overall percentage of drug and illegal related trade is still very low when compared to legit trade, and the illegal trade can be fought with law enforcement.

Yes, you are probably right, but we also shouldn't fail to consider that what you call "legit trade" primarily consists of speculation and online casinos' transactions.

With more merchants starting to accept bitcoin, legit trade is starting to consist of more things like computers, satellite TV service and household goods. This is a trend that will likely continue until the vast majority of bitcoin related trade is similar to the kind of trade you have at a shopping mall.

[johny08]

The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?

Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.

I would think this stat would likely make bitcoin look very bad. With that being said I think the overall percentage of drug and illegal related trade is still very low when compared to legit trade, and the illegal trade can be fought with law enforcement.

Yes, you are probably right, but we also shouldn't fail to consider that what you call "legit trade" primarily consists of speculation and online casinos' transactions.

With more merchants starting to accept bitcoin, legit trade is starting to consist of more things like computers, satellite TV service and household goods. This is a trend that will likely continue until the vast majority of bitcoin related trade is similar to the kind of trade you have at a shopping mall.

on every 2000 dollars spend in creditcard 1 dollar is stolen by thiefs. just an idea that cc system is as well week. numbers for cahs?

[johnyj]

The biggest money launderer are banks, but this topic does not belong here

Bitcoin transaction does not fit into today's monetary system at all, regulate-from-bank-account method will not work. Currently the best authorities can do is to regulate the exchanges, once wealth entered bitcoin network, they can be totally free from regulation

[sandykho47]

Not only bitcoin, every type money is hot hot target for criminals and money launderers
criminals and money launderers is target everything that profitable for them

And some people think bitcoin created for bad purpose   
Banks can called money launderers too 

[Full Spectrum]

Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

Nonsense. if that was the case they would not accept dollars.

Dollars fund wars.
Bitcoins do not fund wars.

War is in general a criminal act, few if any wars are in self defense, most wars are theft by a larger country against a smaller one because they can get away it.

but not because it if theft by a country  it stops being theft, it may not be theft under the law because that same country that doing the theft is the one writing the law, but if we were to hear from the smaller country the one that is on the losing end they would say it is theft.

That is why in the world an international court with power it is highly needed, not a symbolical one with absolutely no power.

Going back to Bitcoin, Bitcoin is much more transparent than the dollar, the rules are precise and well known by everyone, there is even a public ledger which is the blockchain, on the other hand the Dollars operates in a very closed way with no transparency.

So if you are a crook your currency of choice should be the dollar, plus in comparison to Bitcoin they are easy to counterfeit.

I agree that wars suck, and dollars do fund wars.  But how do you know that bitcoin doesn't fund wars, or that it won't in the future?  How do you know that people on the other side of the world aren't funding some of the wars going on in the Middle East and Ukraine?  Not to mention the potential use for funding terrorist activities...

Well from something I've heard ISIS had looked into using bitcoin, but the issue with Bitcoin is not many people accept it vs accepting state issued currencies. Also if Bitcoin was/is/will be used for funding wars/terrorism it will probably be in the form of a temporary transfer of money, not using it to directly buy, but I can only speculate. Also remember terrorism is a subjective term used by the state to denote violent groups that they don't fund/suppor. Remember the Mujahdeen("freedom fighters"), and the Vietcong("terrorists")?

Precious metals I believe are a better way of laundering money than Bitcoin currently as you can open anonymous safe deposit boxes almost anywhere, and Precious metals have certain price stability to them, and more people are willing to exchange fiat for precious metals vs Bitcoin.

[zedicus]

The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?

Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.

I would think this stat would likely make bitcoin look very bad. With that being said I think the overall percentage of drug and illegal related trade is still very low when compared to legit trade, and the illegal trade can be fought with law enforcement.

Yes, you are probably right, but we also shouldn't fail to consider that what you call "legit trade" primarily consists of speculation and online casinos' transactions.

With more merchants starting to accept bitcoin, legit trade is starting to consist of more things like computers, satellite TV service and household goods. This is a trend that will likely continue until the vast majority of bitcoin related trade is similar to the kind of trade you have at a shopping mall.

on every 2000 dollars spend in creditcard 1 dollar is stolen by thiefs. just an idea that cc system is as well week. numbers for cahs?

I am not sure how accurate your stats are but the principle is correct. Merchants are the ones who ultimately need to pay for this fraud and these costs are almost always passed on to consumers. This is why the price you pay with a CC is not transparent as there are "hidden" costs to the products consumers buy.

[johny08]

Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

the concept of something is a thing which is to vague, as you could talk about it as a thing. Example: Bread, you can touch, you can smell, you can taste. God, you cant, but people talking about smelling God, touching God or even tasting God. The problem is here the logic. Bitcoiners are more rational guys, like geeks, more as esoterik believers of energy fields. So I would say, your arguments having an Syntax Error.
 
Just my 50 satoshis.