Bitcoin is the real land of the free and home of the brave

[Robert Paulson]

no physical country has been free in the last 43 years (ever since all currencies became fiat currencies).
even the so called free west is controlled by central and commercial banks that print currency whenever they deem fit, and by doing so arbitrarily redistribute purchasing power.
how is this any different from the centrally planned economy of the soviet union?
how has the west became the very thing it once fought against?

[franky1]

bitcoin HAD the potential to be the land of the free and home of the brave

but it seems that most people want to sit on their hands and let governments dictate the rules.

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want.. but alas from what i seen of america they seem to just let american government do what they like and just go with the flow.

im glad im not american, so i still have some freedoms

[Robert Paulson]

bitcoin HAD the potential to be the land of the free and home of the brave

but it seems that most people want to sit on their hands and let governments dictate the rules.

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want.. but alas from what i seen of america they seem to just let american government do what they like and just go with the flow.

im glad im not american, so i still have some freedoms

the government can make all the rules it wants, they can't stop me trading bitcoins for good and services.

[montreal]

bitcoin HAD the potential to be the land of the free and home of the brave

but it seems that most people want to sit on their hands and let governments dictate the rules.

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want.. but alas from what i seen of america they seem to just let american government do what they like and just go with the flow.

im glad im not american, so i still have some freedoms

do you think there needs to be some level of government regulation for bitcoin (crypocurrency in general) to be successful and go "mainstream" in the future? what level of regulation would that be? at least the ability for them to effectively tax it?

like you said the government is suppose to act in the citizen's best interest. if people shifted money completely out of the government's control, wouldn't that lead us to many new problems? i would imagine tax evasion and financial misreporting would skyrocket with people being able to hide money fairly easy. i'm sure other economic/financial problems could arise, which i don't know about. is there a threat that it could lead to large government cuts, taking away gov. programs and spending on infrastructure for the good of the people? or do you think separation of government and money will work out?

i'm aware of the NY regulation situation, and see how it is overbearing and excessive. but if anyone could lead me to informative articles/videos on this topic, i would appreciate it. i've been genuinely curious about how this would play out in the longterm, but i just don't understand

[robhimself]

bitcoin HAD the potential to be the land of the free and home of the brave

but it seems that most people want to sit on their hands and let governments dictate the rules.

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want.. but alas from what i seen of america they seem to just let american government do what they like and just go with the flow.

im glad im not american, so i still have some freedoms

do you think there needs to be some level of government regulation for bitcoin (crypocurrency in general) to be successful and go "mainstream" in the future? what level of regulation would that be? at least the ability for them to effectively tax it?

like you said the government is suppose to act in the citizen's best interest. if people shifted money completely out of the government's control, wouldn't that lead us to many new problems? i would imagine tax evasion and financial misreporting would skyrocket with people being able to hide money fairly easy. i'm sure other economic/financial problems could arise, which i don't know about. is there a threat that it could lead to large government cuts, taking away gov. programs and spending on infrastructure for the good of the people? or do you think separation of government and money will work out?

i'm aware of the NY regulation situation, and see how it is overbearing and excessive. but if anyone could lead me to informative articles/videos on this topic, i would appreciate it. i've been genuinely curious about how this would play out in the longterm, but i just don't understand

IMO the first crypto that is accepted as payment for taxes in a major nation will be the crypto that thrives.

[Beliathon]

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want..

No offense, but if you think this was ever true of any modern nation, you've been living in a bubble of delusion. Political elites from every nation have always seen themselves as your masters. The problem is that you have failed to see the truth - that you are the slave.\

The only question that remains, is how long will you continue to live as a slave? For me, it ended the day I discovered Bitcoin.

[lihuajkl]

bitcoin HAD the potential to be the land of the free and home of the brave

but it seems that most people want to sit on their hands and let governments dictate the rules.

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want.. but alas from what i seen of america they seem to just let american government do what they like and just go with the flow.

im glad im not american, so i still have some freedoms

do you think there needs to be some level of government regulation for bitcoin (crypocurrency in general) to be successful and go "mainstream" in the future? what level of regulation would that be? at least the ability for them to effectively tax it?

like you said the government is suppose to act in the citizen's best interest. if people shifted money completely out of the government's control, wouldn't that lead us to many new problems? i would imagine tax evasion and financial misreporting would skyrocket with people being able to hide money fairly easy. i'm sure other economic/financial problems could arise, which i don't know about. is there a threat that it could lead to large government cuts, taking away gov. programs and spending on infrastructure for the good of the people? or do you think separation of government and money will work out?

i'm aware of the NY regulation situation, and see how it is overbearing and excessive. but if anyone could lead me to informative articles/videos on this topic, i would appreciate it. i've been genuinely curious about how this would play out in the longterm, but i just don't understand

True! We are getting used to the governments' regulation. The gov is acting on behalf of the citizens, dealing with all the diplomatic affairs and domestic problems. They regulate the citizens and the corporation, make sure they are operating legally which mean they are conducting contracts properly. The authority sets up departments to make every things in order. such as defense, finance, justice.. Can you imagine what will be the situation if one day all of these departments are gone?

[jbreher]

Can you imagine what will be the situation if one day all of these departments are gone?

I can imagine a number of possible outcomes if the government just vaporized. Some good, some bad.

OTOH, no imagination is necessary to ascertain what the situation is under our current system of social organization.
- people put in cages for reasons that have nothing to do with harming or defrauding others
- about one half of everyone's labor stolen through direct taxation
- another chunk stolen through the hidden tax called inflation
- further theft through foreclosure upon 'loans' of 'money' created by the very act of making the loan
- murder with impunity
- constant state of fear for 'behavioral transgressions'
- the essential enslavement of the entire populace
- etc.

I'd be willing to give it a try.

[Robert Paulson]

we need a direct democracy, voting once every 4 years gives the people zero power.
technology has come to a point where its practical to allow all the citizens of a country to vote directly on issues.

at the very least we should have a system where voting is delegated to the elected officials
unless more than 5% of the public votes directly using the internet in which case the public's decision overrules anything else.

imagine if the government had to ask the people for funding for every project it wanted to do, including wars and bailing out banks (instead of just robbing them by force using taxation and inflation).
how much of this nonsense would actually get funded? none!

[BitCoinDream]

bitcoin HAD the potential to be the land of the free and home of the brave

but it seems that most people want to sit on their hands and let governments dictate the rules.

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want.. but alas from what i seen of america they seem to just let american government do what they like and just go with the flow.

im glad im not american, so i still have some freedoms

the government can make all the rules it wants, they can't stop me trading bitcoins for good and services.

They never asked u to stop trading bitcoins for goods & services. Rather by selling the SR stash they have given legitimacy to Bitcoin trading. But well, if u r trading bitcoin against banned goods & services, they'll catch u, just like they do for cash.

[Robert Paulson]

bitcoin HAD the potential to be the land of the free and home of the brave

but it seems that most people want to sit on their hands and let governments dictate the rules.

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want.. but alas from what i seen of america they seem to just let american government do what they like and just go with the flow.

im glad im not american, so i still have some freedoms

the government can make all the rules it wants, they can't stop me trading bitcoins for good and services.

They never asked u to stop trading bitcoins for goods & services. Rather by selling the SR stash they have given legitimacy to Bitcoin trading. But well, if u r trading bitcoin against banned goods & services, they'll catch u, just like they do for cash.

just give it time, when bitcoin eats a bigger slice of the fiat pie they will try to outlaw it, just like they did with gold.
they will say it is needed for the stability of the financial system.
the power to print money was never given up for free.

[ljudotina]

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want..

If avarage Joe was THAT smart, we wouldnt need BTC. Fiat would be just fine as "people" would force goverments to watch what they print, how they print etc.

It's not that "fiat" is "evil" but rather, people behind it are. Give those same ppl alot of BTC in their hand and they could ruin it too by price manipulation etc. Only good thing is that they can not take BTC away from you without of your knowlage and action....but they still can take "value" from you even with BTC.

We need to change much more than just "money system". BTC is part of solution....only part.

[Robert Paulson]

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want..

If avarage Joe was THAT smart, we wouldnt need BTC. Fiat would be just fine as "people" would force goverments to watch what they print, how they print etc.

It's not that "fiat" is "evil" but rather, people behind it are. Give those same ppl alot of BTC in their hand and they could ruin it too by price manipulation etc. Only good thing is that they can not take BTC away from you without of your knowlage and action....but they still can take "value" from you even with BTC.

We need to change much more than just "money system". BTC is part of solution....only part.

price manipulation is only possible when you can print the currency that is used to price goods and services.
if they try to manipulate the price of products in bitcoin they will eventually run out of bitcoins to use in the manipulation.

[franky1]

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want..

No offense, but if you think this was ever true of any modern nation, you've been living in a bubble of delusion. Political elites from every nation have always seen themselves as your masters. The problem is that you have failed to see the truth - that you are the slave.\

The only question that remains, is how long will you continue to live as a slave? For me, it ended the day I discovered Bitcoin.

i said 'suppose'... and yes i agree with what you say. but we need to not sit on our hands and let the governments make the decisions, so far it seems the US government are winning the control and most american bitcoin enthusiasts are simply sitting there with their hands under their ass, taking itat slaves. (i do truly hate the basement dwelling mentality of bitcoin america). which is why im glad to be british where i have gone to a few talks now to help keep control down. most americans have a "ill sit here and let someone else do it" mentality

we ALL need to realise bitcoin is OURS. and not wait around for someone else to do something about it. otherwise the governments will simply do what they want.

in the UK for instance 2 years ago HMRC wanted to treat bitcoin as a commodity, not an asset, yet the power of persuasion and actually describing bitcoin clearly helped the HMRC to decide to go the asset route, which is both correct and proper course of action.

and before you say that it was a group of lads from the "bitcoin association" going to 10 downing street. pfft. HMRC is not in downing street and those publicity shots were just 4 lads having a public access photo shoot outside the doors, like tourists get to do.. and had nothing to do with changing UK legal decisions. (it made me laugh because i posted in this forum moths prior to the photoshoot of the association, that HMRC were going the asset route)

i truly dislike the lazyness of some people that do nothing, but sit on their hands when things are not going their way. but suddenly want to become the "we" when things go right.

again im glad to be british and cant wait for the effects of bitcoin jersey and 'hullcoin' to challenge the UK mindset.

and i am sorry america for broadly describing most as basement dwellers alot of the time, but when i see that overstock has done more lobbying this year than the foundation has, it makes things obvious that american bitcoin advocates are just sitting on their hands.

summary:
become BRAVE and stop sitting on your hands waiting for others. most americans have waited 5 years for the foundation to do things for them.. which has failed. stop waiting for others to do the work and start empowering yourself

[minerpumpkin]

bitcoin HAD the potential to be the land of the free and home of the brave

but it seems that most people want to sit on their hands and let governments dictate the rules.

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want.. but alas from what i seen of america they seem to just let american government do what they like and just go with the flow.

im glad im not american, so i still have some freedoms

the government can make all the rules it wants, they can't stop me trading bitcoins for good and services.

Yeah, but they can make it illegal and effectively prosecute and punish you for breaking the law. Isn't it a tad naive to think Bitcoin changes everything?

[Robert Paulson]

bitcoin HAD the potential to be the land of the free and home of the brave

but it seems that most people want to sit on their hands and let governments dictate the rules.

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want.. but alas from what i seen of america they seem to just let american government do what they like and just go with the flow.

im glad im not american, so i still have some freedoms

the government can make all the rules it wants, they can't stop me trading bitcoins for good and services.

Yeah, but they can make it illegal and effectively prosecute and punish you for breaking the law. Isn't it a tad naive to think Bitcoin changes everything?

sure, just like they effectively prosecute anyone who smokes weed, we all know no one does that.
or how they effectively prosecute software piracy, no one does that either.

[franky1]

bitcoin HAD the potential to be the land of the free and home of the brave

but it seems that most people want to sit on their hands and let governments dictate the rules.

if only people realised that the government are suppose to work for OUR best interests and to make rules WE want.. but alas from what i seen of america they seem to just let american government do what they like and just go with the flow.

im glad im not american, so i still have some freedoms

the government can make all the rules it wants, they can't stop me trading bitcoins for good and services.

Yeah, but they can make it illegal and effectively prosecute and punish you for breaking the law. Isn't it a tad naive to think Bitcoin changes everything?

sure, just like they effectively prosecute anyone who smokes weed, we all know no one does that.
or how they effectively prosecute software piracy, no one does that either.

by allowing the weed blackmarket. gives governments a purpose. basically if everything but murder and theft (pure common law) was legalised then the police DEA, and the other 20 agencies would not exist, meaning there would not need to be such high budgets. so governments love to control things, because they can play with more money.

now weed doesnt harm third parties but they still like to have an excuse to get rich by using certain laws to confiscate peoples money and to ask for high budgets from the tax revenue offices.

WE need to stop government controlling bitcoin or the ripple effect is to then grab at bitcoin, confiscate bitcoin.. and uses many excuses for agencies to make money out of it.  especially if bitcoin 'could' hurt THEIR money, it means bitcoin is a bigger threat than weed is now or alcohol was in the 1920's

put it this way, when someone is arrested for a drug deal or selling duty free cigarettes illegally. they do not just take the cigarettes or drugs of that sale away. they take everything you own. they claim that the house you have was bought using illegal funds, all your bank accounts are frozen etc.

so imagine being a new yorker that let your licence lapse just one month. they wont simply ask you to hand over 1 month of bitcoin earnings. they will deem you as illegally trading bitcoins and want your whole stash, your house and car.. everything

yet i do love britain
http://www.themetropolist.com/play/latest-play/online-piracy-longer-criminal-offence-uk/

Starting in 2015, those caught pirating material online will receive four letters telling the individual that they have committed an illegal offence….and, well that’s it.