Israel's future war: War of God and Magog

[Rigon]

Ezekiel chapters 36 through 39 have been the subject of thought and debate among many, and the source of some movie plots and books.

Here are some observations from one Joel Rosenburg from his blog.  I listed just the first three.  Bold faced, etc I added for emphasis; will include the link when I am done.
http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2011/05/12/what-is-the-war-of-gog-and-magog-part-three-the-good-news/

   1. The Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel lived in Babylon (Iraq) more than 2,500 years ago and the Lord gave him a vision of events that would take place in the future.
   
   2. Ezekiel 38:16 specifically tells us these events will take place in the “last days” — that is in the End Times before the Messiah comes to set up His kingdom on earth.
   
   3. Ezekiel chapters 36 and 37 set the stage for the “War of Gog and Magog” by describing that Israel will be reborn as a country in the last days, the Jewish people will come back to the Holy Land from exile all over the world, the Jewish people will rebuild the ancient ruins and make the deserts bloom again. These things have all happened, and this suggests we are getting closer to the fulfillment of the next set of prophecies.

[Rigon]

1. Ezekiel 38:2 tells us that the war will be led be someone known as “Gog.” This is not a personal name. We’re not looking for someone named David Gog. Or Ahmed Gog. Or Dmitri Gog. Rather, “Gog” is a title, like a “Pharoah” or a “Czar.” Through the prophecy, this Gog is described as a military leader, a political leader, and a coalition builder. In Ezekiel 38:10 he is described as developing an “evil plan,” we know this is an evil man, a tyrant.
   
   2. The Hebrew prophet gives us more clues. This “Gog” is going to be from the “land of Magog.” One has to do some historical detective work to determine what Magog is, but it is possible. Flavius Josephus, the first century Roman historian, wrote in his famous book, The Antiquities of the Jews, that the people of Magog are the people whom the Greeks called “Scythians.” This is a critical clue because we know from history that the Scythians were a people group that migrated from the Middle East northward and settled north of the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea in the region we know today as Russia and the former Soviet Republics.
   
   3.There are other interesting clues, as well. Ezekiel 38:15 says that Gog “will come from your place out of the remote parts of the north.” Ezekiel 39:2 says Gog will come “from the remotest parts of the north” and come “against the mountains of Israel.” The country that is farthest to the north in relation to Israel is Russia.
   
   4.Thus, we can determine that a Russian dictator will build a diplomatic and military coalition to surround and attack the State of Israel in the End Times.

[Rigon]

The question then is what other countries will be part of the coalition?
   
    In Ezekiel 38:5, we learn that the first ally Russia will have is “Persia.” Until 1935, of course, Persia was the legal name of the country we know today as Iran. So we know that Russia and Iran will build an alliance in the last days to attack Israel.
   
    Ezekiel tells us that another country in the alliance will be what many English Bible translate as “Ethiopia.” The Hebrew word, however, is “Cush” and Cush is the upper Nile region that we now know as Sudan. While the current state of Ethiopia may also be involved in the war, the focus is really Sudan, which today, of course, is a radical Islamic Sunni state closely allied with Iran and Russia and deeply anti-Semitic and anti-Israel.

[zolace]

...it doesn't matter if this horseshit is prophesy or not...because they can make it self-fulfilling prophesy.  Scary shit.  The sooner religious zealots perish from the earth the better.

[Rigon]

...it doesn't matter if this horseshit is prophesy or not...because they can make it self-fulfilling prophesy.  Scary shit.  The sooner religious zealots perish from the earth the better.

Yep, Christians are going out there and making those nations do all that stuff just to 'self' fulfill prophesy.   LOL.

[Rigon]

I recognize that these verses can be difficult for some Palestinian Arabs and some Israeli Arabs to read, whether they are born again Christians or nominal Christians (raised in churches but without a personal relationship with Jesus Christ), and especially if they are Muslims. The Bible indicates that Jews will be a sinful people when they are brought back into the Land. Only after they return, the Bible teaches, will the Holy Spirit be poured out upon the Jewish people in an increasingly significant way (Ezekiel 39:29 and Joel 2:28-32 — or Joel chapter 3 in Hebrew Bibles). Then, a growing number of Jewish people will repent and return to a personal relationship with the Lord. Meanwhile, Jesus said in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 that there would be “wars and rumors of wars” and “revolutions” and “lawlessness” in the last days. Certainly, the rebirth of Israel — while prophetic and God-ordained — has come with wars, rumors of war, revolutions, sins, and even crimes committed by some Arabs as well as some Jews. The Bible doesn’t teach this period of the last days will be easy, and the Bible is right.

[Rigon]

That said, we would be not be honest to the Word of God if we were to ignore, deny or try to explain away the plain meaning of these verses. The Bible told us well in advance that Israel would be reborn and the Jews would come back to the Land, and this has come to pass. Genesis 12:1-3 tells us that the Lord will bless those who bless the children of Abraham, and He will curse those who curse the children of Abraham. Those who have cursed Israel have, sadly, found themselves facing great pain and suffering. Sometimes Bible truths are difficult to accept, but they are true nonetheless and we must accept them by faith.

[johnathan32]

Wow .. I really liked what you wrote

[Rigon]

But while the Bible clearly explains that the Lord will bring the Jewish people back to the Land of Israel and allow them to reclaim their God-given ownership of the Land, nowhere in the Bible are Jews (or any group of people) given a license to commit injustice. To the contrary, the Bible teaches Israel to love her neighbors (Leviticus 19:18 and Matthew 19:19). The Bible also teaches Israel to love her neighbors and pray for those who persecute them (Matthew 5:44). The Jews do have rights to the ownership of the Land, but they also have responsibilities to govern justly and compassionately, in accordance with the Scriptures. In Leviticus 19:33-34, for example, the Lord says: “When a stranger [non-Jew] resides with you in your land,  you shall not do him wrong. The stranger who resides with you shall be to  you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.”

[Rigon]

Now, back to the prophecy and its analysis: It could be reasonably argued that Israel is living more securely today than at any other time in its 63 years. The Israeli Defense Forces are widely considered the strongest and most effective ground fighting force in the Middle East. The Israeli Air Force is widely considered dominant in the skies. Israel has peace treaties with two major neighbors, Egypt and Jordan (though the future of the treaty with Egypt is increasingly in question). Yasser Arafat is gone. Saddam Hussein is gone. Osama bin Laden is gone. Palestinian suicide bombings are not a daily part of Israeli life since 2004. Rockets are occassionally fired from Gaza at Israeli civilians living in the south, but this is not nearly as bad as it was prior to Operation Cast Lead in January 2009. Moreover, Israel has just deployed a short-range rocket defense system called “Iron Dome” that is very effective. Meanwhile, Israel has submarines, ballistic missiles, and first rate intelligence services in her defense. Israel has also enjoyed decades of a close strategic partnership with the United States, has a strong and vibrant economy, and is widely believed to have defensive nuclear weapons, though the government maintains a policy of “strategic ambiguity” on the subject, neither confirming nor denying the existence of those weapons.

[Rigon]

    Could Israel currently be secure enough to fulfill this prophetic prerequisite? Honestly, I am not sure. Perhaps events soon will lead Israelis to being and feeling even more secure. But there is no question that even with emerging new threats on the horizon, Israelis feel more secure today than ever before its their modern State’s existence.
    .
    Given the fact that the major End Times prophecies of Ezekiel 36 and 37 have essentially come true in our lifetime, does this mean that we will see Ezekiel 38 and 39 come true in our lifetime as well? To me, it is too soon to say so definitively. Certainly we are seeing geopolitical events unfold in recent decades and in recent years that are strikingly consistent with what the Bible describes as preparations essential for the “War of Gog and Magog.” So we should be ready. We should be prepared — not caught off guard — if events accelerate in the near future. But we must also remember that the Lord in His sovereignty could also decide to delay events for quite some time for His own purposes.
    .
    That said, it should be noted that when the Russian dictator finishes building his military coalition in Israel and begins to move his forces to surround Israel in the “last days,” Ezekiel gives us no indication that any country will come to Israel’s defense. There are not indications that the United Nations, or the European Union, or NATO will defend Israel. Nor is there any indication that the United States will defend Israel. Rather, Israel will be — and will feel — all alone in the world.

Next, I will describe what the Bible tells us will happen to the forces of Gog and Magog.

[noviapriani]

Carry on talking to no one but yourself rigon.   You're like the little girl having a tea party with her stuffed animals....except she knows that her playtime is full of fairy tales.

[Rigon]

The Bible does not tell us exactly how this will happen, but it clearly describes a supernatural judgment. This is not a war started by the Israeli Defense Forces. These are not missiles from the Israeli Air Force. There no evidence in the text of Israelis defending themselves. Perhaps they are engaging in diplomacy. Perhaps they are hoping for the U.S. or the U.N. other nations to intervene. Whatever the case, the God of Israel steps in and defends Israel Himself, raining fire and brimstone down on the enemy forces and utterly destroying them.
As the forces of the Russian dictator (Gog) and his military coalition — including Iran, Libya, Algeria, Sudan, Turkey and other key Islamic nations — converges against the State of Israel in the last days, the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel tells us that at the last moment when there seems to be know hope for Israeli Jews the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is going to supernaturally intervene.

[noviapriani]

As the forces of the Russian dictator (Gog) and his military coalition — including Iran, Libya, Algeria, Sudan, Turkey and other key Islamic nations — converges against the State of Israel in the last days, the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel tells us that at the last moment when there seems to be know hope for Israeli Jews the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is going to supernaturally intervene.

That happened in 1973. Are you saying that Nixon was God?

Oops!

[Rigon]

As the forces of the Russian dictator (Gog) and his military coalition — including Iran, Libya, Algeria, Sudan, Turkey and other key Islamic nations — converges against the State of Israel in the last days, the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel tells us that at the last moment when there seems to be know hope for Israeli Jews the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is going to supernaturally intervene.

That happened in 1973. Are you saying that Nixon was God?

Oops!

Really?  Russia, Turkey, etc attacked Israel?   Turkey was even on friendly terms with Israel at the time; that has only been changing recently.

I am not sure which objection paid less attention to what is being posted

[Rigon]

And to finish (to the joy of some no doubt):

  1  While we know these events will all happen in the “last days” (38:16), we cannot determine whether the “War of Gog and Magog” will happen before the Rapture (when the Lord suddenly snatches born again believers in Jesus off of the earth, prior to the Tribulation) or not, because the text does not tell us one way or the other.
   
  2  That said, I believe it is very possible — not certain, but very possible – that these events will unfold within this generation, and possibly quite soon. We are certainly seeing geopolitical events unfolding in a way consistent with Ezekiel 38-39.
   
  3  Therefore, the most important question we must ask is this: Since the Lord in Ezekiel 38:7 told Gog, the enemy of Israel, to “get ready, be prepared,” then what should Israelis themselves and friends of Israel be doing?
   
  4  Shouldn’t we, too, get ready and be prepared — spiritually, emotionally, physically, financially, and in every other possible way?
   
  5  These prophecies are some of the most interesting and important descriptions of End Times events in all of the Bible. Unfortunately, too few people in the world are aware of them, or have read them, much less studied them carefully.
   
  6  May the Lord bless you and reveal Himself and His heart to you as you get yourself ready for the prophecies coming our way.

[zolace]

I'm not so sure all this pans out with the current countries we see. In the book of Daniel the vision he saw in the kings dream was made up of 4 powers reinstating themselves in our day. Babylon, persia, greece and Rome. The last one Rome which was made of iron, and feet of iron and clay, would be a world empire made up of secular and religious power which would be the beast and false prophet lead by the anti-christ given power from satan
This evil trinity so to speak makes war with the saints. Powers from the north i believe is symbolic to represent evil, such an example would be when the south of Israel was the last standing, as northern part drifted toward idolatry

There's others examples of this north and south representing good and evil that i can't remember right now, if i have time i'll look for it  

[Rigon]

I'm not so sure all this pans out with the current countries we see. In the book of Daniel the vision he saw in the kings dream was made up of 4 powers reinstating themselves in our day. Babylon, persia, greece and Rome. The last one Rome which was made of iron, and feet of iron and clay, would be a world empire made up of secular and religious power which would be the beast and false prophet lead by the anti-christ given power from satan
This evil trinity so to speak makes war with the saints. Powers from the north i believe is symbolic to represent evil, such an example would be when the south of Israel was the last standing, as northern part drifted toward idolatry

There's others examples of this north and south representing good and evil that i can't remember right now, if i have time i'll look for it  

That is interesting - are you saying that conflicts with what Joel is suggesting above?

[zolace]

I'm not so sure all this pans out with the current countries we see. In the book of Daniel the vision he saw in the kings dream was made up of 4 powers reinstating themselves in our day. Babylon, persia, greece and Rome. The last one Rome which was made of iron, and feet of iron and clay, would be a world empire made up of secular and religious power which would be the beast and false prophet lead by the anti-christ given power from satan
This evil trinity so to speak makes war with the saints. Powers from the north i believe is symbolic to represent evil, such an example would be when the south of Israel was the last standing, as northern part drifted toward idolatry

There's others examples of this north and south representing good and evil that i can't remember right now, if i have time i'll look for it  

That is interesting - are you saying that conflicts with what Joel is suggesting above?

In the sense that he believes Israel becoming a nation plays a major role then yes in conflicts. The bible says when the fig tree is in leave, however they are not bearing fruits, or believing in Jesus. They are just a sign the time is near, because Jews have a homeland thats all, but they play no major role.

God's church is still scattered with believers all over, not the churches themselves so much because which denominations or sect leads? I think the larger churches, in particular the papacy, is where the false prophet may arise. This coupled with an alliance with other large denominations and political powers

[Rigon]

I'm not so sure all this pans out with the current countries we see. In the book of Daniel the vision he saw in the kings dream was made up of 4 powers reinstating themselves in our day. Babylon, persia, greece and Rome. The last one Rome which was made of iron, and feet of iron and clay, would be a world empire made up of secular and religious power which would be the beast and false prophet lead by the anti-christ given power from satan
This evil trinity so to speak makes war with the saints. Powers from the north i believe is symbolic to represent evil, such an example would be when the south of Israel was the last standing, as northern part drifted toward idolatry

There's others examples of this north and south representing good and evil that i can't remember right now, if i have time i'll look for it  

That is interesting - are you saying that conflicts with what Joel is suggesting above?

In the sense that he believes Israel becoming a nation plays a major role then yes in conflicts. The bible says when the fig tree is in leave, however they are not bearing fruits, or believing in Jesus. They are just a sign the time is near, because Jews have a homeland thats all, but they play no major role.

God's church is still scattered with believers all over, not the churches themselves so much because which denominations or sect leads? I think the larger churches, in particular the papacy, is where the false prophet may arise. This coupled with an alliance with other large denominations and political powers

Where does Daniel say that Israel does not play a major role as suggested by his fellow prophet Ezekiel?