Americans Getting Poorer

[Fabrizio89]

Well, hasn't always be like that anyway? And it's not only in America, every european country has the same response, apart from the north europe which is anyway a decade in the future. Keep in mind though technology is becoming cheaper and cheaper, while access to many other things is now completely free. People may have less money, but there wasn't ever a time in history where we had such a connection with everything and access to almost everything we need. The only worse thing you americans have is probably the health care, which in my country (Italy) is really cheap for many things, yet people keep complaining.

[NewLiberty]

Well, hasn't always be like that anyway? And it's not only in America, every european country has the same response, apart from the north europe which is anyway a decade in the future. Keep in mind though technology is becoming cheaper and cheaper, while access to many other things is now completely free. People may have less money, but there wasn't ever a time in history where we had such a connection with everything and access to almost everything we need. The only worse thing you americans have is probably the health care, which in my country (Italy) is really cheap for many things, yet people keep complaining.

The health care in US is better than most places, but health insurance/cost is far worse.  So much more expensive mostly due to government intrusion through the FDA, insurance companies, and the US civil legal environment (lawsuits), and med schooling.  
But since the overgovernance has created a monster problem, the US does what it usually does.  Give the problem to the folks that caused it, the government.

So now the US Federal government has to pay people for surviving through a soon to be bankrupt social security program, and also pay for keeping people alive through "affordable care act".  So since both are in the executive branch, they can likely sort out both at once.  With enough government control of insurance, the government can decide when people die, thereby saving both costs.
And if they don't, they can just tax people more, so problem solved.

[Fabrizio89]

The health care in US is better than most places, but health insurance/cost is far worse.  So much more expensive mostly due to government intrusion through the FDA, insurance companies, and the US civil legal environment (lawsuits), and med schooling.  

Yeah, well, that was what I intended but I didn't explain it. Health insurance is obscenely expensive in america, while in europe you have a completely different system. Of course in my country there aren't many advanced structures at all and they can't provide everything usa ones do (but we do have some excellent hospitals in some of the major cities and pretty advanced research and machines there), but the cost for average services is far more affordable, almost free for many things.

[NewLiberty]

The health care in US is better than most places, but health insurance/cost is far worse.  So much more expensive mostly due to government intrusion through the FDA, insurance companies, and the US civil legal environment (lawsuits), and med schooling.  

Yeah, well, that was what I intended but I didn't explain it. Health insurance is obscenely expensive in america, while in europe you have a completely different system. Of course in my country there aren't many advanced structures at all and they can't provide everything usa ones do (but we do have some excellent hospitals in some of the major cities and pretty advanced research and machines there), but the cost for average services is far more affordable, almost free for many things.

By free, you mean tax supported, yes?

The US system loses a lot of cost efficiency in the way the insurance has been perverted.  Doctors are required to do weird things by their insurers to avoid lawsuits.

[leex1528]

Steps to make Americans get more wealthy

1. Raise minimum wage + all other salaries to deal with inflation
2. Stop letting illegal immigrants work for less than minimum wage
3. Lower the cost for college
4. Stop letting people from other countries come live here for free and go to college for free

[mark coins]

one proof of this,the number of Americans on food stamps has grown from 17 million in the year 2000 to more than 47 million today.

[Fabrizio89]

By free, you mean tax supported, yes?

The US system loses a lot of cost efficiency in the way the insurance has been perverted.  Doctors are required to do weird things by their insurers to avoid lawsuits.

Yes, almost everything is covered by the national sanitary system which is backed by taxes.
If you go to a civil hospital anyway you have to wait for months before a visit, if you are not suspected to be a serious case. But private clinics offer better services for just a fraction more of the cost.  

one proof of this,the number of Americans on food stamps has grown from 17 million in the year 2000 to more than 47 million today.

So basically the same amount the population has increased from then to now, lol. Pretty scary.

[mr.coinstrader]

And, in a way Big Brother, American Idol, the superbowl, popcorn and the evening beer are also some kind of molasses to keep the poor stuck in poverty.

[picolo]

They are finally raising the minimum wage, which will at least help the people who make that.

Unfortunately they are only raising the minimum wage.  I know in Seattle it will be going up to $15/hr.  That is absolutely insane they don't raise everything else.  I imagine there are some people out there making $14/hr and are doing fairly well at a respectable entry level job.  Now you can get the exact same pay at Mcdonalds?  What is wrong with this picture...

You brought up one of the problems of having a minimum wage but what about the fact that it will push prices higher and some unskilled workers will not be able to get a job because of minimum wage?

A lot of employers are not interested by paying an employee 15$/h to do some jobs but they would get employees for a lower pay. Each time you raise the minimum wage you destroy jobs. Low entry jobs that allow people that are out of the workforce to get their first experience, like you were able to do helping out in a restaurant or in a station service for 6-7$/h, now customers don't have this additional services and the people that would have got their first job doing that are unemployed and may stay unemployed most their life's instead of climbing the ladder and being useful

[awesome31312]

They are finally raising the minimum wage, which will at least help the people who make that.

Unfortunately they are only raising the minimum wage.  I know in Seattle it will be going up to $15/hr.  That is absolutely insane they don't raise everything else.  I imagine there are some people out there making $14/hr and are doing fairly well at a respectable entry level job.  Now you can get the exact same pay at Mcdonalds?  What is wrong with this picture...

Minimum wage doesn't mean only McDonald's, it means any company that pays the minimum wage. To compete, the companies paying the current wage would raise their wages

[NewLiberty]

How to end poverty in the USA?
End the "war on poverty".

All it has done is create more poverty and institutionalize it.

One thing is certain, over time people tend to do what they are paid to do.
If you pay people to be poor, you will get more poor people.

[picolo]

How to end poverty in the USA?
End the "war on poverty".

All it has done is create more poverty and institutionalize it.

One thing is certain, over time people tend to do what they are paid to do.
If you pay people to be poor, you will get more poor people.

Yes! If you tax the work and pay those who don't work you have an incentive not to work; if you had the minimum wage that keep unskilled labor from getting a job and Big Government, you get the situation we are in

[BADecker]

We really need to spread Bitcoin around the world. Why? Because we need to stop getting poorer and poorer.

Read this link over thoroughly, and then find someone to develop it. Wish I had the knowledge to do it. I would have long ago.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=825091.0

[leex1528]

They are finally raising the minimum wage, which will at least help the people who make that.

Unfortunately they are only raising the minimum wage.  I know in Seattle it will be going up to $15/hr.  That is absolutely insane they don't raise everything else.  I imagine there are some people out there making $14/hr and are doing fairly well at a respectable entry level job.  Now you can get the exact same pay at Mcdonalds?  What is wrong with this picture...

Minimum wage doesn't mean only McDonald's, it means any company that pays the minimum wage. To compete, the companies paying the current wage would raise their wages

Where did I imply that minimum wage meant Mcdonalds?  I said The problem is they won't raise everything.   The analogy I was making with Mcdonalds is say a person is making 14/hr just starting out.  Minimum wage gets bumped up to 15/hr.  Now the person who was doing okay at an entry level job is making less than minimum wage so they will be bumped up to 15/hr doing a hard entry level job.  Where as the person at Mcdonalds will be making the same amount.  What might even be worse, is say someone is making 17/hr right now, well minimum wage gets raised 6/hr and now Mcdonalds Employee who makes 15/hr is laughing because he is almost getting paid as much as 17/hr guy, who is working a lot harder than him..

[picolo]

They are finally raising the minimum wage, which will at least help the people who make that.

Unfortunately they are only raising the minimum wage.  I know in Seattle it will be going up to $15/hr.  That is absolutely insane they don't raise everything else.  I imagine there are some people out there making $14/hr and are doing fairly well at a respectable entry level job.  Now you can get the exact same pay at Mcdonalds?  What is wrong with this picture...

Minimum wage doesn't mean only McDonald's, it means any company that pays the minimum wage. To compete, the companies paying the current wage would raise their wages

Where did I imply that minimum wage meant Mcdonalds?  I said The problem is they won't raise everything.   The analogy I was making with Mcdonalds is say a person is making 14/hr just starting out.  Minimum wage gets bumped up to 15/hr.  Now the person who was doing okay at an entry level job is making less than minimum wage so they will be bumped up to 15/hr doing a hard entry level job.  Where as the person at Mcdonalds will be making the same amount.  What might even be worse, is say someone is making 17/hr right now, well minimum wage gets raised 6/hr and now Mcdonalds Employee who makes 15/hr is laughing because he is almost getting paid as much as 17/hr guy, who is working a lot harder than him..

You are correct and having a minimum wage destroys jobs which is the worst part of it all.

[Candystripes]

Minimum wage is only part of it, a minimum wage isn't going to fix everything.

[NewLiberty]

Steps to make Americans get more wealthy

1. Raise minimum wage + all other salaries to deal with inflation
2. Stop letting illegal immigrants work for less than minimum wage
3. Lower the cost for college
4. Stop letting people from other countries come live here for free and go to college for free

These are all statist methods to further distort a market.

It is unlikely any of these would make "Americans" richer.
A more authoritarian country with a planned economy that is centrally controlled might try it though.

[Decentradical]

Labour productivity per capita has been climbing while the number of available labour positions has been shrinking.

This means that it's not that people are lazy, far from it, it's just that there's nothing for them to do any longer.

http://andrewmcafee.org/2012/12/the-great-decoupling-of-the-us-economy/

Because the entire US model is based on the idea that an average american job is both abundant and able to provide for a family this system is rotting at the base. It's not just the unemployed that struggle to survive, it's also all the small business, entrepreneurs, and even giant corporations that rely on every American family to be able to provide for itself.

The moment that stops happening, the whole thing cascades.

That's why it's utterly, utterly perverse to try and find ways to get people to do more work. You're only lowering the overall productivity of the economy. These jobs have been automatised and/or made more efficient through innovation. That's not coming back unless we revert back to pre-industrial conditions.

We need a system that keeps the economy going without human labour. That's what we've been working towards since we invented the steam engine. That's what we've been building up to for two centuries now and we're only fumbling at the finish line.

You want to abolish a big bureaucratic government fiddling around with welfare recipients? You want to stimulate entrepreneurship and reward people with ambition?

Then the unconditional basic income really is the only real solution to this crux.
http://www.reddit.com/r/basicincome/wiki/index

[NewLiberty]

Then the unconditional basic income really is the only real solution to this crux.
http://www.reddit.com/r/basicincome/wiki/index

I'll take mine in gold bullion or bitcoin please.

If this solution is government printing more paper to simply expand their ledger, its fail.  Why bother with their money at all when they start doing this?

[Decentradical]

You don't need to inflate and you don't even need to increase taxes (though that would make things more effective and would boost the economy higher). Currently we're already spending this amount of money on our citizens through hidden costs that arise from a bloated bureaucracy and externalities arising from people not being able to directly sustain themselves.

You can fund an UBI on it's own efficiency.