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Author Topic: Beastlymac - scammed me for 3.1 btc - gridseeds group buy  (Read 17218 times)
Beastlymac
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August 01, 2014, 01:37:42 PM
Last edit: August 01, 2014, 02:28:38 PM by Beastlymac
 #161

I am surprised that a person with such experience in trading leads as long discussion irritating their customers more and more, rather than just give them his money.
The customer satisfaction should not be the first place? If he asking for a refund money I'd sent the money. Zero anger and a chance to be the next satisfied customer.
Sometimes, simple solution are best solution. Maybe generate sometime little lost, but result are worth it.

About reputation.
In my opinion is not good practice to spoil the reputation of the person whom he did not interest. For something different reputation system is designed.

I shudder to write something more, because my reputation will go to hell Smiley

GandalfG i welcome your opinion and thank you for your post. I don't understand why your "reputation will go to hell ". Everyone is free to post their own opinion. It is if people post lies that it becomes a problem.

Edit: Although as a personal friend of bbxx i feel it may be a little biased.

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curiousminer
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August 01, 2014, 02:06:14 PM
 #162

I am surprised that a person with such experience in trading leads as long discussion irritating their customers more and more, rather than just give them his money.
The customer satisfaction should not be the first place? If he asking for a refund money I'd sent the money. Zero anger and a chance to be the next satisfied customer.
Sometimes, simple solution are best solution. Maybe generate sometime little lost, but result are worth it.

About reputation.
In my opinion is not good practice to spoil the reputation of the person whom he did not interest. For something different reputation system is designed.

I shudder to write something more, because my reputation will go to hell Smiley

GandalfG i welcome your opinion and thank you for your post. I don't understand why your "reputation will go to hell ". Everyone is free to post their own opinion.

thank you GandalfG for stating your opinion. im also convinced that not happy consumers are very bad for reputation of seller. im not happy and there is few more not happy consumers of beastymac. coincidence ? i dont think so.

look beastymac  I AM unexpired user. i send you cash. i did not provided postal address or did not posted in forum. IT WAS MISTAKE. you can call me stupid (i am) but i did not broke rules. i was scared of customs. few days later i have asked you to return me money. since 5 months im asking you to return me money.

so just send me back my 3.1 btc and lets finish it. so many hours wasted on pointless discussion

also please remember im from poland and 3 btc its about 1.5 average monthly wage. it is a _loot_ for me.
at the moment im in ukraine. its not so wealthy country. 3 btc its about 4 months of work in ukraine (im actually eating full dinner in restaurant for 0.0041 btc)
you are from Australia. for you 3 bts its less than a 2 or 3 weeks or work.

just give me back _my_money_ and lets finish it.
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August 01, 2014, 02:28:40 PM
 #163

Beastlymac has been denying 4 times or more that my brother order anything.
Ha had not stated once that his order is already locked for shipment.
beastlymad has been refusing that curiusminer has paid anything

after receiving proof of payment he went into silence method

3 times

after he got adres signature at 10.03

at march when he asked to send email he has never replied

at 5.07 he asked again about proof of payment

he never mentioned that his order is on the way and there is no refunds
he never asked for shipping address
he had not put him at paid list

he found him at secret private list week ago, 6 months after order.

how my brother could know that his miners are waiting for him if beastlymac was denying this?

please consider this.
whole correspondence is archived at screenshoots.

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August 01, 2014, 02:42:05 PM
 #164

Here is what it looks like to me:

Items were ordered, shipping information not given but payment sent. Is this why he was on a private list? Setting this aside from those with shipping information?
By ordering from that advertisement, you were agreeing to a No Refunds policy. Did you not realize that? Once they were ordered, it is done.
Why was shipping info not given when ordered? That's a lot of BTC to risk. Could it be you were hedging against the rapid devaluation of these units since the larger, faster miners were hitting the market? The taxes/shipping to your country are YOUR concern, not the sellers.
Do you not take any responsibility for not inquiring in a reasonable time frame on the whereabouts of your already paid for items? Again this is a decent chunk of change you plopped down but failed to send shipping info. This really comes across as very peculiar.
Now, it looks like you want the seller to eat the devaluation of these items you ordered while you get a full refund. You are basically screwing the seller hard if indeed the items are sitting there, in hand awaiting shipping information. If he was going to cheat you, why would he buy the items? He can not recover the full purchased value at this late date.
Both have dropped the ball on notification but the buyer more so as he risked a lot of BTC but failed to follow up on the shipping.
All these accusations are meaningless at this point. Both sides need to work out an agreeable solution.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
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August 01, 2014, 02:47:45 PM
 #165

it is true above but why beastlymac has been cheating that he had not orderded anything?
why he had been ignoring him within 3 months having his miners?
maybe he was mining with them or sold them and bought back when they were useless?
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August 01, 2014, 02:49:41 PM
 #166

it is true above but why beastlymac has been cheating that he had not orderded anything?
why he had been ignoring him within 3 months having his miners?
maybe he was mining with them or sold them and bought back when they were useless?


Best if you stay out of it and let the buyer/seller handle a solution. You are not adding anything relevant to this. In fact, you are muddying the waters so to speak.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
Beastlymac
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August 01, 2014, 02:54:49 PM
 #167

it is true above but why beastlymac has been cheating that he had not orderded anything?
why he had been ignoring him within 3 months having his miners?
maybe he was mining with them or sold them and bought back when they were useless?


That is a very big accusation to make. You would have to provide some proof to back it up. But you wouldn't be able to as it is untrue. Why would i tamper with a customers device? I have never done it before. I didn't do it with the other hundreds that i shipped. Why would i do it with 5 miners?

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August 01, 2014, 03:02:08 PM
 #168

it is true above but why beastlymac has been cheating that he had not orderded anything?
why he had been ignoring him within 3 months having his miners?
maybe he was mining with them or sold them and bought back when they were useless?


That is a very big accusation to make. You would have to provide some proof to back it up. But you wouldn't be able to as it is untrue. Why would i tamper with a customers device? I have never done it before. I didn't do it with the other hundreds that i shipped. Why would i do it with 5 miners?

yes it is very big accusation to make. but think twice about the story: the guy who is avoiding to give back 3.1 btc for months to unexpired consumer (by ignoring his voice) is SOOO greed he will make hot every chip, he have in (temporary) possession.
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August 01, 2014, 03:04:47 PM
 #169

it is true above but why beastlymac has been cheating that he had not orderded anything?
why he had been ignoring him within 3 months having his miners?
maybe he was mining with them or sold them and bought back when they were useless?


That is a very big accusation to make. You would have to provide some proof to back it up. But you wouldn't be able to as it is untrue. Why would i tamper with a customers device? I have never done it before. I didn't do it with the other hundreds that i shipped. Why would i do it with 5 miners?

yes it is very big accusation to make. but think twice about the story: the guy who is avoiding to give back 3.1 btc for months to unexpired consumer (by ignoring his voice) is SOOO greed he will make hot every chip, he have in (temporary) possession.


This is another great example of false slanderous accusations.

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August 01, 2014, 03:05:38 PM
 #170

it is true above but why beastlymac has been cheating that he had not orderded anything?
why he had been ignoring him within 3 months having his miners?
maybe he was mining with them or sold them and bought back when they were useless?


That is a very big accusation to make. You would have to provide some proof to back it up. But you wouldn't be able to as it is untrue. Why would i tamper with a customers device? I have never done it before. I didn't do it with the other hundreds that i shipped. Why would i do it with 5 miners?

yes it is very big accusation to make. but think twice about the story: the guy who is avoiding to give back 3.1 btc for months to unexpired consumer (by ignoring his voice) is SOOO greed he will make hot every chip, he have in (temporary) possession.


All that is over and done. You didn't follow up with your order, check on your country's laws and you didn't give shipping details. That is on you, the buyer. The seller also should have been more diligent but as the buyer, you should have been following closely the order progression.
Move on to a solution already, this back and forth isn't going anywhere.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
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August 01, 2014, 03:09:54 PM
 #171

fair is to

1. refund value of miners dated at 10.03 (since beastlymac went to silence mode, when he got what he asked)
2. erase false feedback left on both accounts

what do you think?

thanks
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August 01, 2014, 03:14:59 PM
 #172

Here is what it looks like to me:

Items were ordered, shipping information not given but payment sent. Is this why he was on a private list? Setting this aside from those with shipping information?
By ordering from that advertisement, you were agreeing to a No Refunds policy. Did you not realize that? Once they were ordered, it is done.
Why was shipping info not given when ordered? That's a lot of BTC to risk. Could it be you were hedging against the rapid devaluation of these units since the larger, faster miners were hitting the market? The taxes/shipping to your country are YOUR concern, not the sellers.
Do you not take any responsibility for not inquiring in a reasonable time frame on the whereabouts of your already paid for items? Again this is a decent chunk of change you plopped down but failed to send shipping info. This really comes across as very peculiar.
Now, it looks like you want the seller to eat the devaluation of these items you ordered while you get a full refund. You are basically screwing the seller hard if indeed the items are sitting there, in hand awaiting shipping information. If he was going to cheat you, why would he buy the items? He can not recover the full purchased value at this late date.
Both have dropped the ball on notification but the buyer more so as he risked a lot of BTC but failed to follow up on the shipping.
All these accusations are meaningless at this point. Both sides need to work out an agreeable solution.

I think your spot on correct. Not that Beastlymac needs my agreeing with him, as he's doing a far better job strengthening his position on his own.

When you made the purchase of these items, you agreed to the terms and conditions agreement for participating in said purchase. The parts you are focusing on curiousminer may be frustrating to you, or not the ideal situation you wanted to be in when you initially sent payment and agreed to the terms, but it doesn't change the only 'fact' that matters in this.

You are asking questions over and over regarding the date these miners arrived at his residence, and why communication wasn't quick enough, and all these parts of the situation that unfortunately are irrelevant to the situation at this point in the resolution.

All that matters here and now are a few very simple facts:

Is he a scammer? He is not. It is already a proven fact he has issued I believe roughly 40 btc (don't quote me on that exact number) in refunds to countless users.

Are you entitled to a refund yourself? According to the terms you agreed upon, yes you are. One of the Two items you purchased entitled you to roughly 1 BTC refunded. The remainder of the order (Beastlymac correct me if I am wrong), he has in hand, and is ready to get it shipped out to you as soon as an address is provided. I also believe he had included an alternative to having these shipped to you, which is to auction them off on this forum, to which you would receive the proceeds from those sales in addition to the 1 BTC refund you are entitled to as we speak buddy!

I understand you want all your money back. I understand you canceled your order 5 days after paying. I understand you are either unhappy/unsatisfied with his communication (time frame or otherwise). I don't think anyone is overlooking these statements you keep repeating. The problem is, when you paid on the 5th. You agreed to the terms and conditions set for this purchase. and after the 7th (when the order were placed), all the other points pretty much became irrelevant. If you wanted your money back, canceled your order, or had an issue with communication between the 5th (date you paid) and the 7th (date order was placed), you would absolutely have a valid point and concern on this purchase.

I think Beastlymac has proven above all that he is not a scammer, and is doing everything he can to work with you on the options you rightfully have left to resolve this situation. Trust me buddy, a scammer does not refund 40+ BTC to numerous people, a scammer would not offer you the refund on 1 item, as well as several options regarding the other item (again, all of which you agreed to upon paying). But most of all, a scammer would not have been as honest, professional, and straight forward with you as he has throughout all your questioning. It may not be what you want, but you should be thankful he is giving you what you are entitled to fairly, whereas if you had made this transaction with a true scammer, you most likely would not only get nothing at all back, but you most likely wouldn't even have heard from the guy ever again.

I am not the most well versed person, obviously, so I apologies if this sounds like just a dumb down version of what everybody else was saying before. :-/

Again buddy, I understand everything you are saying in this thread. Just the key fact, the only fact that matters, is after the 7th, when this order was placed, all those things you are saying are irrelevant as the situation stands right now. The only thing that matters is, are you receiving what you are entitled too fairly, and the answers is Yes. It's not Yes because of an option, or because any one person says so. It's a Yes because you personally agreed to that when you made the purchase on the 5th.

I think I already said this once before, but be very thankful that you weren't dealing with an actual scammer, as it would be a very rough situation if you actually were stolen from.

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August 01, 2014, 03:18:24 PM
 #173

fair is to

1. refund value of miners dated at 10.03 (since beastlymac went to silence mode, when he got what he asked)
2. erase false feedback left on both accounts

what do you think?

thanks

But you would be contradicting your own agreement. Why would you expect a refund on the 10th, when you had agreed to the terms that you wouldn't be entitled a full refund after the order was placed, which was the 7th. It falls on the buyer, not the seller, that you demanded a full refund, 3 days after the 'deadline' to request said refund. You can't blame the seller for that, ya know?

Going 'silent' as you put it is irrelevant UNLESS it was on or before the 7th. Which as far as I can see, everyone agrees there was no attempt of communication on or before the 7th.

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August 01, 2014, 03:28:49 PM
 #174

helo

thank you all for taking time and looking on the story. i need more time to read all again and reply as i m on bike travel now and cant be all the time wifi. its been going for months, please let it be a while longer. my bro bbxx is entitled to state in my name.

also have in mind reputation of my bro, as hi is imho worth full trust.
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August 01, 2014, 03:38:48 PM
 #175

helo

thank you all for taking time and looking on the story. i need more time to read all again and reply as i m on bike travel now and cant be all the time wifi. its been going for months, please let it be a while longer. my bro bbxx is entitled to state in my name.

also have in mind reputation of my bro, as hi is imho worth full trust.


The longer you wait, the less your order is worth. IMHO, you need to be the one to address this as the person that ordered.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
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August 01, 2014, 03:39:22 PM
 #176

fair is to

1. refund value of miners dated at 10.03 (since beastlymac went to silence mode, when he got what he asked)
2. erase false feedback left on both accounts

what do you think?

thanks

But you would be contradicting your own agreement. Why would you expect a refund on the 10th, when you had agreed to the terms that you wouldn't be entitled a full refund after the order was placed, which was the 7th. It falls on the buyer, not the seller, that you demanded a full refund, 3 days after the 'deadline' to request said refund. You can't blame the seller for that, ya know?

Going 'silent' as you put it is irrelevant UNLESS it was on or before the 7th. Which as far as I can see, everyone agrees there was no attempt of communication on or before the 7th.

From my understanding, no refunds are granted after the order is placed with the manufacturer (which I totally understand). When the OP requested a refund, he wouldn't have known the order was already sent to the manf unless that date was posted in the thread. But even if it were, his name wasn't on the public list (because he didn't send his mailing address), so there would be no way to determine whether his order was included in that bunch.

The key date is when the order was placed with the manufacturer, not the date OP purchased. OP requested a refund days after placing his order, but unfortunately by that time, the order was already placed with the manf, hence no refund. No doubt the original communication dragged on for months unnecessarily - and as I've stated before based on the messages /emails sent I'd think my refund was in the works too... but order rules are order rules.

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August 01, 2014, 03:48:57 PM
 #177

helo

thank you all for taking time and looking on the story. i need more time to read all again and reply as i m on bike travel now and cant be all the time wifi. its been going for months, please let it be a while longer. my bro bbxx is entitled to state in my name.

also have in mind reputation of my bro, as hi is imho worth full trust.


No need to thank me buddy, in the end this is about you and him and finding a resolution. Take the time you need, but remember to reply to him within the 5 day time frame as stated in the PM he sent you (it may be 2 or 3 days left by now). You only hurt yourself by letting that 5 day period pass, so I would absolutely re-read this thread tonight, specifically what the community's insight on this is. Since your making a thread asking the community to get involved, it's absolutely important to take the communities un-bias responses seriously.

As for your brother, IMO, there's nothing more he needs to add at this point. It's between you and you alone to read and respond to the sellers PM and seriously see the options he is giving you on how to proceed.

Don't worry about the reputation thing now. A + or - on a computer screen isn't the main situation right now, you getting what you are entitled to get per your agreement is bud! Let's get this resolved and dropped, then we can go back on the reputation situation. But it's almost impossible to solve a reputation dispute while the important situation of your BTC and Items is still on going!

I realize your brother has been speaking on your behalf more then you have been speaking for yourself in this thread (I know your on vacation though so I understand!). Its better if you take 45 mins - an hour tonight and resolve this yourself, meanwhile have your brother just sit on the sidelines for a bit while you do so, and once resolved he absolutely has a right to then address the reputation situation!


My Rep: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209239.msg2191317#msg2191317
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August 01, 2014, 03:50:43 PM
 #178

helo

thank you all for taking time and looking on the story. i need more time to read all again and reply as i m on bike travel now and cant be all the time wifi. its been going for months, please let it be a while longer. my bro bbxx is entitled to state in my name.

also have in mind reputation of my bro, as hi is imho worth full trust.


No need to thank me buddy, in the end this is about you and him and finding a resolution. Take the time you need, but remember to reply to him within the 5 day time frame as stated in the PM he sent you (it may be 2 or 3 days left by now). You only hurt yourself by letting that 5 day period pass, so I would absolutely re-read this thread tonight, specifically what the community's insight on this is. Since your making a thread asking the community to get involved, it's absolutely important to take the communities un-bias responses seriously.

As for your brother, IMO, there's nothing more he needs to add at this point. It's between you and you alone to read and respond to the sellers PM and seriously see the options he is giving you on how to proceed.

Don't worry about the reputation thing now. A + or - on a computer screen isn't the main situation right now, you getting what you are entitled to get per your agreement is bud! Let's get this resolved and dropped, then we can go back on the reputation situation. But it's almost impossible to solve a reputation dispute while the important situation of your BTC and Items is still on going!

I realize your brother has been speaking on your behalf more then you have been speaking for yourself in this thread (I know your on vacation though so I understand!). Its better if you take 45 mins - an hour tonight and resolve this yourself, meanwhile have your brother just sit on the sidelines for a bit while you do so, and once resolved he absolutely has a right to then address the reputation situation!



Seconded.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein
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August 01, 2014, 03:57:14 PM
 #179

fair is to

1. refund value of miners dated at 10.03 (since beastlymac went to silence mode, when he got what he asked)
2. erase false feedback left on both accounts

what do you think?

thanks

But you would be contradicting your own agreement. Why would you expect a refund on the 10th, when you had agreed to the terms that you wouldn't be entitled a full refund after the order was placed, which was the 7th. It falls on the buyer, not the seller, that you demanded a full refund, 3 days after the 'deadline' to request said refund. You can't blame the seller for that, ya know?

Going 'silent' as you put it is irrelevant UNLESS it was on or before the 7th. Which as far as I can see, everyone agrees there was no attempt of communication on or before the 7th.

From my understanding, no refunds are granted after the order is placed with the manufacturer (which I totally understand). When the OP requested a refund, he wouldn't have known the order was already sent to the manf unless that date was posted in the thread. But even if it were, his name wasn't on the public list (because he didn't send his mailing address), so there would be no way to determine whether his order was included in that bunch.

The key date is when the order was placed with the manufacturer, not the date OP purchased. OP requested a refund days after placing his order, but unfortunately by that time, the order was already placed with the manf, hence no refund. No doubt the original communication dragged on for months unnecessarily - and as I've stated before based on the messages /emails sent I'd think my refund was in the works too... but order rules are order rules.

I absolutely agree with you that everything isn't a clear open and shut, no room to debate otherwise, situation. I think the situation could have been more clear if the seller had worded things differently in an early on PM. I don't see it as malicious on his part, just a communications issue, because in the end there was never a lie or any false information being passed. But equally, I think the situation could have been more clear if the buyer had worded things differently in his early PM's as well. Equally, not malicious on the buyer's part, but with such a large transaction taken place, perhaps a straight forward question to the seller about the refund would have cleared this up early, as opposed to just assuming a full refund is coming without actually asking for a straight forward answer.

I don't think either party intended on screwing over the other, and if one side flat out lied at the time to stall time, then I would understand the frustration. Should the seller have said flat out no refunds on the first message that couldn't be debated as meaning anything else? Absolutely. Should the buyer have asked flat out, am I receiving a full 100% refund as per my request on the 10th, again, prompting a straight forward answer that couldn't be debated meaning anything else? Absolutely.

My Rep: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209239.msg2191317#msg2191317
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August 01, 2014, 04:12:32 PM
 #180

fair is to

1. refund value of miners dated at 10.03 (since beastlymac went to silence mode, when he got what he asked)
2. erase false feedback left on both accounts

what do you think?

thanks

But you would be contradicting your own agreement. Why would you expect a refund on the 10th, when you had agreed to the terms that you wouldn't be entitled a full refund after the order was placed, which was the 7th. It falls on the buyer, not the seller, that you demanded a full refund, 3 days after the 'deadline' to request said refund. You can't blame the seller for that, ya know?

Going 'silent' as you put it is irrelevant UNLESS it was on or before the 7th. Which as far as I can see, everyone agrees there was no attempt of communication on or before the 7th.

From my understanding, no refunds are granted after the order is placed with the manufacturer (which I totally understand). When the OP requested a refund, he wouldn't have known the order was already sent to the manf unless that date was posted in the thread. But even if it were, his name wasn't on the public list (because he didn't send his mailing address), so there would be no way to determine whether his order was included in that bunch.

The key date is when the order was placed with the manufacturer, not the date OP purchased. OP requested a refund days after placing his order, but unfortunately by that time, the order was already placed with the manf, hence no refund. No doubt the original communication dragged on for months unnecessarily - and as I've stated before based on the messages /emails sent I'd think my refund was in the works too... but order rules are order rules.

I absolutely agree with you that everything isn't a clear open and shut, no room to debate otherwise, situation. I think the situation could have been more clear if the seller had worded things differently in an early on PM. I don't see it as malicious on his part, just a communications issue, because in the end there was never a lie or any false information being passed. But equally, I think the situation could have been more clear if the buyer had worded things differently in his early PM's as well. Equally, not malicious on the buyer's part, but with such a large transaction taken place, perhaps a straight forward question to the seller about the refund would have cleared this up early, as opposed to just assuming a full refund is coming without actually asking for a straight forward answer.

I don't think either party intended on screwing over the other, and if one side flat out lied at the time to stall time, then I would understand the frustration. Should the seller have said flat out no refunds on the first message that couldn't be debated as meaning anything else? Absolutely. Should the buyer have asked flat out, am I receiving a full 100% refund as per my request on the 10th, again, prompting a straight forward answer that couldn't be debated meaning anything else? Absolutely.

Well said; no doubt you're able to look at this objectively. It's pretty obvious the lack of clear communication, on both sides, contributed to the misunderstanding - definitely a lesson to be learned. I totally agree with you, malice isn't a factor here.

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