monero vs BBR ?

[poornamelessme]

What differences are there between the two coins on a technical level? Meaning... has either dev team added something to the cryptonote code, or done anything to really differentiate them?

I'm still waiting for a dev to figure out a solution to the bloat issues with all cryptonote coins. It wouldn't surprise me to see a dev wander in one day with a new coin, have a fix for the bloat + gui wallet, and overshadow all existing cryptonote coins.

[RiffRofl]

Monero is better.

[Skinnkavaj]

What differences are there between the two coins on a technical level? Meaning... has either dev team added something to the cryptonote code, or done anything to really differentiate them?

I'm still waiting for a dev to figure out a solution to the bloat issues with all cryptonote coins. It wouldn't surprise me to see a dev wander in one day with a new coin, have a fix for the bloat + gui wallet, and overshadow all existing cryptonote coins.

I think the main reason is that BBR is just a one an show while XMR have a lot of really talanted devs around it.

[poornamelessme]

What differences are there between the two coins on a technical level? Meaning... has either dev team added something to the cryptonote code, or done anything to really differentiate them?

I'm still waiting for a dev to figure out a solution to the bloat issues with all cryptonote coins. It wouldn't surprise me to see a dev wander in one day with a new coin, have a fix for the bloat + gui wallet, and overshadow all existing cryptonote coins.

I think the main reason is that BBR is just a one an show while XMR have a lot of really talanted devs around it.

Okay, and have those devs done anything yet? Besides a straight cryptonote clone, that is?
And it may sound superficial, but I think BBR hurt themselves with their naming. It's hard to take a coin seriously when it has a somewhat ridiculous name.

I don't own either coin, so I don't mean it to sound like I'm favoring one or another based on any holdings. Just curious if either coin really improved on the cryptonote code at all.

[darkota]

Is this coin better or worse than BBR ? ,BBR has made lot of new improvement

YES!

ok, many people said so too ,BRR came out later  ,but made  more innovation

BBR has a private gpu miner since their algoritihm isn't Cryptonote(which doesnt have a private gpu miner, and is mostly cpu only), it's Wild Keccak. According to posts I've read, the guys using that Private Gpu Miner get as much as 7,000 BBR per day, per person...I also saw a 80,000 BBR sell order a few days ago....

Boolberry has been instamined just like quarkcoin and darkcoin.

The private GPU miner WAS making 5,000-7,000 BBR per day. He is making less than a 1/3 of that now.  

CPU mining improvements are made daily.

btc-mike is 2nd only developer for boolberry. Crypto_Zoidberg(the first boolberry developer) has also acknowledged the private gpu miner making that much bbr per day. Also, when btc-mike said, " He is making less than a 1/3 of that now.", That was during BBR's pump when the difficulty had risen. Now that the difficulty is back down, the guy with the PGPU is back to making over 4,000 bbr per day, making boolberry an extremely instamined/unfairly mined coin.

Do the math, multiply 6,000(between 5 and 7 thousand) times the first (around 60 days) months boolberry has been out(from april to june), then stop. Now multiply 2,000(between 1,000 and 3,000 during bbr's pump/difficulty rise), then stop. Now multiple 4,000 times 15 days(half a month since difficult has dropped a while ago so hes back to making that much). That would give you 420,000 boolberry that the guy with the private gpu miner has instamined/extremely unfairly mined so far. Take note, that boolberrys total coin supply is only 18million, AND Boolberry has botnets AND a slow emission curve, making the instamine with the PGPU much more worse.

Anyone who buys that instamined coin, bbr, is a fool beyond helping, unless they like instamined coins of course.  

[Anotheranonlol]

What differences are there between the two coins on a technical level? Meaning... has either dev team added something to the cryptonote code, or done anything to really differentiate them?

I'm still waiting for a dev to figure out a solution to the bloat issues with all cryptonote coins. It wouldn't surprise me to see a dev wander in one day with a new coin, have a fix for the bloat + gui wallet, and overshadow all existing cryptonote coins.

I think the main reason is that BBR is just a one an show while XMR have a lot of really talanted devs around it.

BBR is not a 'one man show'

About XMR unfair mining;

NoodleDoodle optimized the slow hash code recently to about 225% performance. However, he has decided not to release the source code and has only released binaries. I think he is enjoying mining MRO with very high hash rates from Linux right now. Eventually we hope he will release the code.

Our git repo has the same code as BCN 0.8.6, so will be the same speed.

Pull request has been submitted and merged to update miner speed:

https://github.com/NoodleDoodleNoodleDoodleNoodleDoodleNoo/bitmonero/commit/3cc45e9324a402aee91e2f46861b2ca393d711aa

It appears from the simplicity of the fix that there may have been deliberate crippling of the hashing algorithm from introduction with ByteCoin.

I firmly believe that noodle should not be part of development team.

Like I stated in IRC, I am not part of the "dev team", I never was. Just so happens I took a look at the code and changed some extremely easy to spot "errors". I then decided to release the binary because I thought MRO would benefit from it. I made this decision individually and nobody else should be culpable, especially the community of individuals who have come together to maintain and foster the software.

By the way, I'm not even a real coder, so whatever changes I made should be easy to spot; especially for experienced developers.

Cheers.

Speaks volumes about XMR in my mind.

[canonsburg]

What differences are there between the two coins on a technical level? Meaning... has either dev team added something to the cryptonote code, or done anything to really differentiate them?

I'm still waiting for a dev to figure out a solution to the bloat issues with all cryptonote coins. It wouldn't surprise me to see a dev wander in one day with a new coin, have a fix for the bloat + gui wallet, and overshadow all existing cryptonote coins.

I think the main reason is that BBR is just a one an show while XMR have a lot of really talanted devs around it.

BBR is not a 'one man show'

About XMR unfair mining;

NoodleDoodle optimized the slow hash code recently to about 225% performance. However, he has decided not to release the source code and has only released binaries. I think he is enjoying mining MRO with very high hash rates from Linux right now. Eventually we hope he will release the code.

Our git repo has the same code as BCN 0.8.6, so will be the same speed.

Pull request has been submitted and merged to update miner speed:

https://github.com/NoodleDoodleNoodleDoodleNoodleDoodleNoo/bitmonero/commit/3cc45e9324a402aee91e2f46861b2ca393d711aa

It appears from the simplicity of the fix that there may have been deliberate crippling of the hashing algorithm from introduction with ByteCoin.

I firmly believe that noodle should not be part of development team.

Like I stated in IRC, I am not part of the "dev team", I never was. Just so happens I took a look at the code and changed some extremely easy to spot "errors". I then decided to release the binary because I thought MRO would benefit from it. I made this decision individually and nobody else should be culpable, especially the community of individuals who have come together to maintain and foster the software.

By the way, I'm not even a real coder, so whatever changes I made should be easy to spot; especially for experienced developers.

Cheers.

Speaks volumes about XMR in my mind.

Are you dense or something? This was code that was part of the original reference CryptoNote code. Had nothing to do with Monero. In fact, it took Monero to fix this "bug".

[desil]

btc-mike is a developer for boolberry. Crypto_Zoidberg has also acknowledged the private gpu miner making that much bbr per day. Also, when btc-mike said, " He is making less than a 1/3 of that now.", That was during BBR's pump. Now that the difficulty is back down, he's back to making over 4,000 bbr per day, boolberry has been instamined/extremely unfairly mined.

That is untrue as the performance of the private GPU miner was limited by the increasing scratchpad size which is now effectively much greater in size than nearly a month ago. The ever increasing scratchpad size decreases the performance of the privite gpu miner by each passing day. As I've stated earlier, the BBR difficulty chart clearly shows appropriate adjustment to changes in the hash rate. Therefore, BBR had a fair launch without any instamine yet was exploited early on by a private GPU miner who has since discontinued his mining operation. Note that the long term hashrate graph and difficulty graph are nearly the same. There is also no evidence of botnet mining.

Hashrate graph: http://bbr.cryptostats.org/charts/hashrate
Difficulty graph: http://bbr.cryptostats.org/charts/difficulty

[poornamelessme]

Okay, you guys are really convincing me to invest in these coins.

So far, it sounds like the only improvements added to each coin was the ability for the devs to mine them better.

[smooth]

That is untrue as the performance of the private GPU miner was limited by the increasing scratchpad size which is now effectively much greater in size than nearly a month ago. The ever increasing scratchpad size decreases the performance of the privite gpu miner by each passing day.

So in other words the private GPU miner(s) had a huge early advantage that can never be replicated by anyone ever again in the future. Sounds exactly like an instamine to me.

[Anotheranonlol]

Are you dense or something? This was code that was part of the original reference CryptoNote code. Had nothing to do with Monero. In fact, it took Monero to fix this "bug".

No, are you dense?

Why did such a bug ever make it past the audit stage? unless there was
1) no audit beyond initial copy and paste, (he team lacked the competence to notice such a trivial un-optimization)
2) or it was intentionally left crippled once again in the monero fork.

BBR never had such a intentional crippling.

That is untrue as the performance of the private GPU miner was limited by the increasing scratchpad size which is now effectively much greater in size than nearly a month ago. The ever increasing scratchpad size decreases the performance of the privite gpu miner by each passing day.

So in other words the private GPU miner(s) had a huge early advantage that can never be replicated by anyone ever again in the future. Sounds exactly like an instamine to me.

I can't pretend to be happy about people not on level playing grounds. The news of private GPU miner was a big negative for BBR and will be constantly brought up. I'm not sure it can ever escape from it.
however premine in my mind usually means mining large amount of early blocks and waiting for huge appreciation..
What do you think exactly happened to those early GPU mined coins? they were held gradually losing value until today?
Large amount was dumped and re-distributed filling market orders in regular batches, of course there was costs associated with mining them that needed to be recouped, and the miners in question seeked a guaranteed quick profit. In this sense there is not a single entity who now controls a huge portion purely from advantaged mining as suggested. (buying is another story)

Why did such a bug ever make it past the audit stage? unless there was
1) no audit beyond initial copy and paste, (he team lacked the competence to notice such a trivial un-optimization)

I guess you were volunteering to audit the tens of thousands of lines of code with no design documentation and no comments?

For that matter, if you are still volunteering to do this, we have openings, since the process is ongoing.

Ten's of thousands of lines of code maybe but are you suggesting to me no eyes were on slow_hash specifically. Come off it.
I don't have to volunteer to audit the base myself in order to criticize others (the dev team who actually launched the damn thing) for not spotting it..
you know yourself this was an incredibly obvious thing to notice.

[smooth]

Why did such a bug ever make it past the audit stage? unless there was
1) no audit beyond initial copy and paste, (he team lacked the competence to notice such a trivial un-optimization)

I guess you were volunteering to audit the tens of thousands of lines of code with no design documentation and no comments?

For that matter, if you are still volunteering to do this, we have openings, since the process is ongoing.

[btc-mike]

Why did such a bug ever make it past the audit stage? unless there was
1) no audit beyond initial copy and paste, (he team lacked the competence to notice such a trivial un-optimization)

I guess you were volunteering to audit the tens of thousands of lines of code with no design documentation and no comments?

For that matter, if you are still volunteering to do this, we have openings, since the process is ongoing.

No one knows for sure when they found out.

The file was named "slow-hash.c". The file name itself says what it does. The bytecoin devs had optimized miners from launch until the crippling was found.

[btc-mike]

The subject of this thread was which coin was a better investment(subjective). The op mentioned that someone "swore by" the BBR dev. My comment was meant to highlight that the BBR dev is {probably} untrustworthy. The hashing implementation is {obviously} flawed, and it was {undoubtedly} done on purpose in order for the dev to instamine tons of the coin with a gpu.

The OP never said the subject was about the better investment.

Please enlighten us on the flawed hash.

[smooth]

Ten's of thousands of lines of code maybe but are you suggesting to me no eyes were on slow_hash specifically.

No, there probably weren't, as part of the initial fork/launch.

There was never any intention to change the proof-of-work as part of forking bytecoin (unlike BBR which did intend to change its proof of work). It was never even discussed. So no reason specifically to look at it. Certainly none of us (meaning the people approaching this from the outside community, as opposed the bytecoin people) had any reason to suspect that it had been (likely) intentionally crippled, as we discovered later. This simply did not happen.

You have to remember at the time this was just yet another coin fork, not anything like the (somewhat) big deal it seems to be today. The thread discussing the original fork was maybe a few dozen messages, and relatively few participants. At the time few even cared much about it.

There were some other things that were changed (penalty-free size, coin supply, etc.) or fixed (coinbase transation mining bug) so those parts of the code were definitely looked at right away, but those had nothing to do with slow_hash.

[btc-mike]

What differences are there between the two coins on a technical level? Meaning... has either dev team added something to the cryptonote code, or done anything to really differentiate them?

I'm still waiting for a dev to figure out a solution to the bloat issues with all cryptonote coins. It wouldn't surprise me to see a dev wander in one day with a new coin, have a fix for the bloat + gui wallet, and overshadow all existing cryptonote coins.

Here are some technical differences:

From launch Boolberry has had:
-Ability to prune blockchain as explained here: EDIT - Prune is wrong. Reduced block-chain bloat is better.
http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-reduces-blockchain-bloat
-Better anonymity as explained here:
http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-solves-cryptonoteflaws-37055246
-Network Alerts
-Support for aliases


BBR has had an Official GUI wallet for some time. You can download it here:
http://boolberry.com/downloads.html

[poornamelessme]

What differences are there between the two coins on a technical level? Meaning... has either dev team added something to the cryptonote code, or done anything to really differentiate them?

I'm still waiting for a dev to figure out a solution to the bloat issues with all cryptonote coins. It wouldn't surprise me to see a dev wander in one day with a new coin, have a fix for the bloat + gui wallet, and overshadow all existing cryptonote coins.

Here are some technical differences:

From launch Boolberry has had:
-Ability to prune blockchain as explained here:
http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-reduces-blockchain-bloat
-Better anonymity as explained here:
http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-solves-cryptonoteflaws-37055246
-Network Alerts
-Support for aliases


BBR has had an Official GUI wallet for some time. You can download it here:
http://boolberry.com/downloads.html

Interesting... and thanks. When I have time I'll look them over closer.

If it has fixed the bloat issue + GUI, I now wonder why the coin isn't more popular than it is.

[vuduchyld]

Not trying to spread FUD, but DAMN, that BBR graph looks like a serious falling knife to try to catch.

[maxcan]

If it has fixed the bloat issue + GUI, I now wonder why the coin isn't more popular than it is.

these things take time to get around  

the name is silly which probably is why there aren't any 250 btc walls hanging around, but zoidberg is working hard at improving the important parts.

Not trying to spread FUD, but DAMN, that BBR graph looks like a serious falling knife to try to catch.

i've happily been taking knives to the face for a few weeks now, 0.5 btc at a time  

[YesBoss69]

ok now I'm excited if there's headway being made with regard to the bloating issue (if we can call it an issue really but anyway..) - hope there's something to report soon!