Shouldn't new Fund GABI aka Global Advisors Bitcoin Investment Fund boost price?

[Bios Optimus]

I'm not lying on anything. You just said that 5 million in cash outs is nothing compared to 200 million in investment. That is a lie. Making you a liar. A liar who can't speak or spell properly, which totally helps your credibility btw you also said the hedgefund is just not going to happen, due to some nonexistent market crash you've been ranting about since your first post, but guess what? It is happening. That's why they did a press release and got the fund approved and are launching it. You can't just make that shit up, it's illegal, even on jersey isle. So, so far, that's two lies you've said in this thread alone, that contradict each other. If you're going to troll and act stupid, at least make up your mind about what rediculous fictitious scenarios you're pushing.

After just one post from falllling I realized I should have made this thread a self-moderated thread.

Oh well.  I was just trying to get an intellectual discussion going on how a fund like GABI could be a game changer.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how the Second Market Fund, even though smaller than this one is expected to be, boosted the price?  Was it opened before the run in November?  I will have to do some research on that. . .

Edit:  Just looked into when the Second Market fund opened and it was at the end of September!  So I think had an influence on the last bubble for sure.  I think things are going to get crazy in the next few weeks.

I put him on ignore loooong ago. 

[maker88]

I'm not lying on anything. You just said that 5 million in cash outs is nothing compared to 200 million in investment. That is a lie. Making you a liar. A liar who can't speak or spell properly, which totally helps your credibility btw you also said the hedgefund is just not going to happen, due to some nonexistent market crash you've been ranting about since your first post, but guess what? It is happening. That's why they did a press release and got the fund approved and are launching it. You can't just make that shit up, it's illegal, even on jersey isle. So, so far, that's two lies you've said in this thread alone, that contradict each other. If you're going to troll and act stupid, at least make up your mind about what rediculous fictitious scenarios you're pushing.

After just one post from falllling I realized I should have made this thread a self-moderated thread.

Oh well.  I was just trying to get an intellectual discussion going on how a fund like GABI could be a game changer.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how the Second Market Fund, even though smaller than this one is expected to be, boosted the price?  Was it opened before the run in November?  I will have to do some research on that. . .

Edit:  Just looked into when the Second Market fund opened and it was at the end of September!  So I think had an influence on the last bubble for sure.  I think things are going to get crazy in the next few weeks.

Sorry I meant to add input to this and not just point out failings further absurdities. I think the hedgefund is going to be big, but I think it's been in the works long enough that big fish already got wind of the situation, and that is the reason for the market manipulation a we've seen where there are 1000-1500btc dumps aimed at causing panic in an otherwise healthy market. Bitcoin doesn't react to FUD these days, so the powers behind the shadows have to physically move the market to get people scared. Unfortunately the trading bots exaggerate the slippage and this has been keeping the consolidation period going. But basically the entire thing is happening because someone big wants in. I suspect multiple people are working together towards a mutal goal of causing orchestrated panic to keep a price ceiling in place while they work to position themselves better without causing a panic buying event. These are the kind of people who want to buy 50000 btc without any price slippage. That's a tough goal but what if you could pay your friends who have substantial market moving abilities to dump a few thousand coins and then buy back in lower? And do it over and over? To me this market manipulation is actually bullish, because it tells me smart money wants in, but they're doing it in a clinical and organized way to remain quiet. That means smart money believes in bitcoin, and they're smart  so that's why I think the fund hasn't caused a rise. I think last time there were two bear traps before the fire works, so why not this time?

[dropt]

Sorry I meant to add input to this and not just point out failings further absurdities. I think the hedgefund is going to be big, but I think it's been in the works long enough that big fish already got wind of the situation, and that is the reason for the market manipulation a we've seen where there are 1000-1500btc dumps aimed at causing panic in an otherwise healthy market. Bitcoin doesn't react to FUD these days, so the powers behind the shadows have to physically move the market to get people scared. Unfortunately the trading bots exaggerate the slippage and this has been keeping the consolidation period going. But basically the entire thing is happening because someone big wants in. I suspect multiple people are working together towards a mutal goal of causing orchestrated panic to keep a price ceiling in place while they work to position themselves better without causing a panic buying event. These are the kind of people who want to buy 50000 btc without any price slippage. That's a tough goal but what if you could pay your friends who have substantial market moving abilities to dump a few thousand coins and then buy back in lower? And do it over and over? To me this market manipulation is actually bullish, because it tells me smart money wants in, but they're doing it in a clinical and organized way to remain quiet. That means smart money believes in bitcoin, and they're smart   so that's why I think the fund hasn't caused a rise. I think last time there were two bear traps before the fire works, so why not this time?

Possible, sure.  But if GABI is looking for 200MM in holdings, that's approx 385,000 BTC at the current market rate.  These piddly dumps and buys is nowhere near that kind of volume, even cumulatively.

[twiifm]

Sorry I meant to add input to this and not just point out failings further absurdities. I think the hedgefund is going to be big, but I think it's been in the works long enough that big fish already got wind of the situation, and that is the reason for the market manipulation a we've seen where there are 1000-1500btc dumps aimed at causing panic in an otherwise healthy market. Bitcoin doesn't react to FUD these days, so the powers behind the shadows have to physically move the market to get people scared. Unfortunately the trading bots exaggerate the slippage and this has been keeping the consolidation period going. But basically the entire thing is happening because someone big wants in. I suspect multiple people are working together towards a mutal goal of causing orchestrated panic to keep a price ceiling in place while they work to position themselves better without causing a panic buying event. These are the kind of people who want to buy 50000 btc without any price slippage. That's a tough goal but what if you could pay your friends who have substantial market moving abilities to dump a few thousand coins and then buy back in lower? And do it over and over? To me this market manipulation is actually bullish, because it tells me smart money wants in, but they're doing it in a clinical and organized way to remain quiet. That means smart money believes in bitcoin, and they're smart   so that's why I think the fund hasn't caused a rise. I think last time there were two bear traps before the fire works, so why not this time?

Possible, sure.  But if GABI is looking for 200MM in holdings, that's approx 385,000 BTC at the current market rate.  These piddly dumps and buys is nowhere near that kind of volume, even cumulatively.

a hedge fund should have some strategy.  If they just buy & hold, heck you can do that yourself

[dropt]

a hedge fund should have some strategy.  If they just buy & hold, heck you can do that yourself

I agree, however GABI hasn't even launched yet.  The question at hand (IMO) is have they already started accumulating, and if so are they primarily doing it OTC?  I personally wouldn't expect to see a legitimate hedge fund actively, and knowingly, manipulating a market to such an extent to take their position.  I'm no wall street guru, but I'd think that kind of activity is illegal.

[twiifm]

a hedge fund should have some strategy.  If they just buy & hold, heck you can do that yourself

I agree, however GABI hasn't even launched yet.  The question at hand (IMO) is have they already started accumulating, and if so are they primarily doing it OTC?  I personally wouldn't expect to see a legitimate hedge fund actively, and knowingly, manipulating a market to such an extent to take their position.  I'm no wall street guru, but I'd think that kind of activity is illegal.

The founder was a oil futures trader so I'm curious to what he plans to do w bitcoin

[BitChick]

a hedge fund should have some strategy.  If they just buy & hold, heck you can do that yourself

I agree, however GABI hasn't even launched yet.  The question at hand (IMO) is have they already started accumulating, and if so are they primarily doing it OTC?  I personally wouldn't expect to see a legitimate hedge fund actively, and knowingly, manipulating a market to such an extent to take their position.  I'm no wall street guru, but I'd think that kind of activity is illegal.

It would have been nice if there was some information out there about what amount of coins the fund is starting with and their strategy for obtaining them.  At least Second Market gave out more info about the buying structure.  Maybe when they launch on Friday? 

[gentlemand]

a hedge fund should have some strategy.  If they just buy & hold, heck you can do that yourself

I agree, however GABI hasn't even launched yet.  The question at hand (IMO) is have they already started accumulating, and if so are they primarily doing it OTC?  I personally wouldn't expect to see a legitimate hedge fund actively, and knowingly, manipulating a market to such an extent to take their position.  I'm no wall street guru, but I'd think that kind of activity is illegal.

There are zero rules against that in the BTC market right now. Perhaps that'll change but then again there aren't any rules against it in any forex market which is where Bitcoin may end up.

[Bogleg]

Don't think they can get in the market so easily with 200M.

Maybe they will invest in alt coin ?

[elux]

a hedge fund should have some strategy.  If they just buy & hold, heck you can do that yourself

I agree, however GABI hasn't even launched yet.  The question at hand (IMO) is have they already started accumulating, and if so are they primarily doing it OTC?  I personally wouldn't expect to see a legitimate hedge fund actively, and knowingly, manipulating a market to such an extent to take their position.  I'm no wall street guru, but I'd think that kind of activity is illegal.

The founder was a oil futures trader so I'm curious to what he plans to do w bitcoin

Trader? I suppose you could say that. He was the Global Head of Energy Trading at JPMorgan for six years.

[dropt]

I agree, however GABI hasn't even launched yet.  The question at hand (IMO) is have they already started accumulating, and if so are they primarily doing it OTC?  I personally wouldn't expect to see a legitimate hedge fund actively, and knowingly, manipulating a market to such an extent to take their position.  I'm no wall street guru, but I'd think that kind of activity is illegal.

There are zero rules against that in the BTC market right now. Perhaps that'll change but then again there aren't any rules against it in any forex market which is where Bitcoin may end up.

I'm aware that there are practically zero rules againt manipulation in the BTC market, however I don't believe the lack of such rules/regulations is a necessary motivator for a fund to act in such a way.  But what do I know   

[BitchicksHusband]

I haven't seen anything saying that GABI will actually buy any bitcoins.  Just a lot of video nonsense that doesn't mean anything.

Does anyone have anything resembling a prospectus?  Otherwise, GABI may be VERY bad for bitcoin by increasing supply with bogus numbers of fake bitcoins.

[maker88]

I agree, however GABI hasn't even launched yet.  The question at hand (IMO) is have they already started accumulating, and if so are they primarily doing it OTC?  I personally wouldn't expect to see a legitimate hedge fund actively, and knowingly, manipulating a market to such an extent to take their position.  I'm no wall street guru, but I'd think that kind of activity is illegal.

There are zero rules against that in the BTC market right now. Perhaps that'll change but then again there aren't any rules against it in any forex market which is where Bitcoin may end up.

I'm aware that there are practically zero rules againt manipulation in the BTC market, however I don't believe the lack of such rules/regulations is a necessary motivator for a fund to act in such a way.  But what do I know   

i think you're giving them a little to much credit in the ethics department. do you know what these guys motivators are? money. that is all. if it is not clear cut ILLEGAL and fully banned, they will sure as hell do it if they can make a buck on it. to think that hedgefunds play fair is frankly ridiculous. ever heard of high frequency trading? its basically insider trading done by bots to get around insider trading laws (Its not illegal if the computer makes the trades instead of a person) and thats done in practically every major market.

[windjc]

I agree, however GABI hasn't even launched yet.  The question at hand (IMO) is have they already started accumulating, and if so are they primarily doing it OTC?  I personally wouldn't expect to see a legitimate hedge fund actively, and knowingly, manipulating a market to such an extent to take their position.  I'm no wall street guru, but I'd think that kind of activity is illegal.

There are zero rules against that in the BTC market right now. Perhaps that'll change but then again there aren't any rules against it in any forex market which is where Bitcoin may end up.

I'm aware that there are practically zero rules againt manipulation in the BTC market, however I don't believe the lack of such rules/regulations is a necessary motivator for a fund to act in such a way.  But what do I know   

i think you're giving them a little to much credit in the ethics department. do you know what these guys motivators are? money. that is all. if it is not clear cut ILLEGAL and fully banned, they will sure as hell do it if they can make a buck on it. to think that hedgefunds play fair is frankly ridiculous. ever heard of high frequency trading? its basically insider trading done by bots to get around insider trading laws (Its not illegal if the computer makes the trades instead of a person) and thats done in practically every major market.

SecondMarket was the first hedgefund. Its almost a year old. How have they manipulated the market? Please cite specifics. Thanks.

[twiifm]

Hedge funds are unregulated so they don't have to disclose anything.  Good luck finding any dirt on them

This Daniel Masters guy used to head energy trading at JP Morgan.   His specialty was oil.   Seems like JPM bought physical oil and hedged by selling oil futures. I was kind of surprised they took delivery of physical oil!    He left cause JP Morgan closed down that division

Hard to say what his strategy is.   He probably won't tell you unless you drop mucho duckets in his fund

Haha.   I found out his wife is Blythe Masters.   She's the one who created the 'credit default swap' that everyone used and contributed to 2008 GFC.

Very smart people,  but also epitome of so called 'banksters' that bitcoiners love to hate.   

[BitChick]

Hedge funds are unregulated so they don't have to disclose anything.  Good luck finding any dirt on them

This Daniel Masters guy used to head energy trading at JP Morgan.   His specialty was oil.   Seems like JPM bought physical oil and hedged by selling oil futures. I was kind of surprised they took delivery of physical oil!    He left cause JP Morgan closed down that division

Hard to say what his strategy is.   He probably won't tell you unless you drop mucho duckets in his fund

Haha.   I found out his wife is Blythe Masters.   She's the one who created the 'credit default swap' that everyone used and contributed to 2008 GFC.

Very smart people,  but also epitome of so called 'banksters' that bitcoiners love to hate.    

I would think that with the fact that the blockchain offers some transparency, we would be able at some point to see how many coins they are holding?  It would be horrible if they indeed were just selling coins that they really don't have.

[Newbie1022]

Hedge funds are unregulated so they don't have to disclose anything.  Good luck finding any dirt on them

This Daniel Masters guy used to head energy trading at JP Morgan.   His specialty was oil.   Seems like JPM bought physical oil and hedged by selling oil futures. I was kind of surprised they took delivery of physical oil!    He left cause JP Morgan closed down that division

Hard to say what his strategy is.   He probably won't tell you unless you drop mucho duckets in his fund

Haha.   I found out his wife is Blythe Masters.   She's the one who created the 'credit default swap' that everyone used and contributed to 2008 GFC.

Very smart people,  but also epitome of so called 'banksters' that bitcoiners love to hate

It is entirely possible that they might crash the market so they can buy up cheap. With how much leverage there is on the market and with their financial backing this wouldn't be hard to do. They are playing poker pot rich and in poker if you have a large enough pot then you can wipe out the table either by stealing blinds or forcing them all-in repeatedly. With enough of a pot, you can wipe out the table. Remember, market manipulation is not banned in Bitcoin the same way it is on Wall Street.

My thoughts: (1) If you are playing intermediate to long-term then the influx of new players, even with the bull--- that might ensue -- is bullish; (2) If you are bargain shopping, you might get your chance but it is far from guaranteed; (3) if you are highly leveraged you might as well have just donated your Coins; and (4) if you are more of a trader than a holder then carefully hedge.

Will all of this come to fruition? Probably not. BUT, it is important to note that there is not a single reason why it couldn't happen. Be careful.

[maker88]

exactly, I'm not talking about bitcoin hedgefunds. I'm talking about wall street in general. they usually have a very loose definition of 'fair play'

[Newbie1022]

Oh, it should also be noted that in Forex markets there are at least private institution rules against market manipulation (see CFA rules and guidelines) as well as exchange rules. Are they robust and do they actually prevent widespread abuses? Not really. But in Bitcoin there really is nothing at all preventing gobblydegoosh.

[twiifm]

Hedge funds are unregulated so they don't have to disclose anything.  Good luck finding any dirt on them

This Daniel Masters guy used to head energy trading at JP Morgan.   His specialty was oil.   Seems like JPM bought physical oil and hedged by selling oil futures. I was kind of surprised they took delivery of physical oil!    He left cause JP Morgan closed down that division

Hard to say what his strategy is.   He probably won't tell you unless you drop mucho duckets in his fund

Haha.   I found out his wife is Blythe Masters.   She's the one who created the 'credit default swap' that everyone used and contributed to 2008 GFC.

Very smart people,  but also epitome of so called 'banksters' that bitcoiners love to hate.    

I would think that with the fact that the blockchain offers some transparency, we would be able at some point to see how many coins they are holding?  It would be horrible if they indeed were just selling coins that they really don't have.

Can't say if they engage in naked short selling.   That's pretty risky.   Here's an article where he talks about his other fund

http://m.futuresmag.com/2010/04/01/global-advisors-the-best-of-both-worlds