FBI has a success rate of 50% when it comes to stopping domestic terrorism.

[noviapriani]

HRW released a report [link] that shows, in part, that just about every single high-profile domestic terrorism plot was crafted from the ground up by the FBI.  http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/usterrorism0714_ForUpload_0_0_0.pdf

All of the high-profile domestic terrorism plots of the last decade, with four exceptions, were actually FBI sting operations—plots conducted with the direct involvement of law enforcement informants or agents, including plots that were proposed or led by informants. According to multiple studies, nearly 50 percent of the more than 500 federal counterterrorism convictions resulted from informant-based cases; almost 30 percent of those cases were sting operations in which the informant played an active role in the underlying plot.

Of those 4 exceptions, two were not prevented. They were the LAX shooting and the Boston bombing. By my count, that means that the FBI is only able to stop 50% of actual domestic terrorism plots. All of the other high profile cases don't count because they were created by the FBI.


And before you go thinking they simply tricked bad guys who would have done bad things in the absence of the FBI's guiding hand, consider that the report notes that the FBI preyed on individuals that were deemed weak.

Although an FBI agent even told Ferdaus’ father his son “obviously” had mental health problems, the FBI targeted him for a sting operation, sending an informant into Ferdaus’ mosque. Together, the FBI informant and Ferdaus devised a plan to attack the Pentagon and US Capitol, with the FBI providing fake weaponry and funding Ferdaus’ travel. Yet Ferdaus was mentally and physically deteriorating as the fake plot unfolded, suffering weight loss so severe his cheek bones protruded, loss of bladder control that left him wearing diapers, and depression and seizures so bad his father quit his job to care for Ferdaus. He was eventually sentenced on material support for terrorism and explosives charges to 17 years in prison with an additional 10 years of supervised release.

The FBI often made shit up all together instead of merely providing their victims with the means to carry out their "crimes."

    In many of the sting operations we examined, informants and undercover agents carefully laid out an ideological basis for a proposed terrorist attack, and then provided investigative targets with a range of options and the weapons necessary to carry out the attack. Instead of beginning a sting at the point where the target had expressed an interest in engaging in illegal conduct, many terrorism sting operations that we investigated facilitated or invented the target’s willingness to act before presenting the tangible opportunity to do so. In this way, the FBI may have created terrorists out of law-abiding individuals.

If their target was non-compliant, then he'd face enhanced interrogation until he confessed.

Abu Ali, a US citizen, was swept up in a mass arrest campaign in Saudi Arabia in 2003. Ali alleged being whipped, denied food, and threatened with amputation, and ultimately provided a confession he says was false to Saudi interrogators.

[...]

Uzair Paracha was held in solitary confinement for nearly two years before he was convicted on charges of material support. Nine months after his arrest and while he was refusing to take a plea deal, the federal government moved Paracha to a harsh regime of solitary confinement pursuant to Special Administrative Measures (SAMs)—special restrictions on his contact with others imposed on the grounds of protecting national security or preventing disclosure of classified material—ostensibly due to ties with Al-Qaeda. For a time, Paracha was only permitted to speak to prison guards.

As Tim Cushing put it https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140722/14463127971/report-all-four-high-profile-domestic-terrorism-plots-last-decade-were-crafted-ground-up-fbi.shtml :

    The FBI took a man whose main hobbies were "watching cartoons" and "playing Pokemon," a man who a forensic psychologist described (during the trial) as "highly susceptible to the suggestions of others" and fashioned him into a supposed terrorist. The planned subway bombing never happened, thanks to the FBI's keenly-honed ability to capture terrorists it created. Arrested with the would-be subway bomber was his "co-conspirator," a high school dropout with drug problems and clinically-diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia.

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[zolace]

are the FBI well trained and physically fit in the main part, or like many cops are they donuts eaten' fat bastard idiots ? 'law enforcement' switched to 'national security'?

their copywriter is out of control!!! our tax dollars are paying her salary .

[Chef Ramsay]

are the FBI well trained and physically fit in the main part, or like many cops are they donuts eaten' fat bastard idiots ? 'law enforcement' switched to 'national security'?

their copywriter is out of control!!! our tax dollars are paying her salary .

I think they have an over abundance of resources and if they don't use it all, they can't justify getting more next year. The best way to justify not only their existence and more money is to drum up a facade of stopping terrorism that they know the media will perpetuate to the ignorant public. I'm sure most if not all those that they're entrapping and setting up aren't angels but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth to know they're playing politics instead of being serious about a supposed terrorist threat. In fact, Free Talk Live was just talking about this very same issue on Saturday night and some of the stories they were discussing was agents using visits to strip clubs and alcohol to gin up some of these youngsters to do their bidding so they could get caught and pad the arrest numbers.

[beetcoin]

domestic terrorism is kind of different though. to me, it seems more random and comes from kooks.

[practicaldreamer]

The best way to justify not only their existence and more money is to drum up a facade of stopping terrorism that they know the media will perpetuate to the ignorant public. I'm sure most if not all those that they're entrapping and setting up aren't angels but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth to know they're playing politics instead of being serious about a supposed terrorist threat.

Yes- agreed.

Got to quote Robert David Steele here (ex CIA Intelligence), in interview :-

- How do you view the proportion of physical and cyber terrorism in the next 5 years? In your opinion – which type is worse?

- Neither. I believe two things: first, that many terrorists are false flag terrorists that have been funded, trained, or manipulated by rogue government or corporate sources who desperately need terrorism as a substitute for the Cold War; and second, that terrorism is a tactic, not a threat, and it is a tactic that is used by groups with legitimate grievances when they feel they have no other resort.


And again :-


Please let me take a moment to list, in priority order, the top ten threats to humanity. These are as identified by LtGen Dr. Brent Scowcroft, USAF (Ret) and the other members of the United Nations High-Level Panel on Threats, Challenges, and Change, in their report A More Secure World: Our Shared Responsibility, and they have been ignored by the USG and all other governments.


1) Poverty

2) Infectious Disease

3) Environmental Degradation

4) Inter-State War

5) Civil War

6) Genocide

7) Other Atrocities

Proliferation

9) Terrorism (Mass Catastrophes)

10) Transnational Crime

Poverty has doubled in the USA in the past twelve years. Around the world poverty does more to spawn all the other threats than all the corporations put together.


Yes - poverty (inequality) is the threat.

But we can't talk about that threat can we ? 

[Ekaros]

Main question about terrorism in my mind is:
Why these people care enough to harm you? Why don't they have better things to do?

[beetcoin]

Main question about terrorism in my mind is:
Why these people care enough to harm you? Why don't they have better things to do?

if you're talking about the middle east, a big part of it is that america has planted its puppets in their country, extracting all their resources yet leaving no opportunity for their people. they're also religious zealots, too.

as far as domestic terrorism goes, they're just mainly wackos in the head.

[Balkhole]

are the FBI well trained and physically fit in the main part, or like many cops are they donuts eaten' fat bastard idiots ? 'law enforcement' switched to 'national security'?

their copywriter is out of control!!! our tax dollars are paying her salary .

I think they have an over abundance of resources and if they don't use it all, they can't justify getting more next year. The best way to justify not only their existence and more money is to drum up a facade of stopping terrorism that they know the media will perpetuate to the ignorant public. I'm sure most if not all those that they're entrapping and setting up aren't angels but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth to know they're playing politics instead of being serious about a supposed terrorist threat. In fact, Free Talk Live was just talking about this very same issue on Saturday night and some of the stories they were discussing was agents using visits to strip clubs and alcohol to gin up some of these youngsters to do their bidding so they could get caught and pad the arrest numbers.

this is true throughout government as departments have an incentive to spend their entire budget because if they do not then next years budget will be cut. At for profit corporations the person in charge if keeping spending under control likely would receive a bonus for not spending off of his budget.

[noviapriani]

my guess is that their function hasnt rlly changed, just how they present themselves superficially

a cop is a cop, and calling yourself 'special agent' doesn't get you blown or respected any more often (as many special agents only realize after becoming one.)

by appealing to a greater cause like 'national security' ppl in the fbi can pretend theyre more than toe-the-line drones, all while actually being toe-the-line drones.

its actually quite brilliant imo. getting people to deal with societies degenerates for 30k/yr is a skillful art

[zolace]

my guess is that their function hasnt rlly changed, just how they present themselves superficially

a cop is a cop, and calling yourself 'special agent' doesn't get you blown or respected any more often (as many special agents only realize after becoming one.)

by appealing to a greater cause like 'national security' ppl in the fbi can pretend theyre more than toe-the-line drones, all while actually being toe-the-line drones.

its actually quite brilliant imo. getting people to deal with societies degenerates for 30k/yr is a skillful art

you need to work on your presentation. i feel like i just read an article on why bigfoot is real and why he was chosen as the main actor in the fabricated moon landing.

re: the actual argument, my local police department can be described in a similar manner. the police have always been fascist corrupt kunts with special authorities over citizens

[noviapriani]

my guess is that their function hasnt rlly changed, just how they present themselves superficially

a cop is a cop, and calling yourself 'special agent' doesn't get you blown or respected any more often (as many special agents only realize after becoming one.)

by appealing to a greater cause like 'national security' ppl in the fbi can pretend theyre more than toe-the-line drones, all while actually being toe-the-line drones.

its actually quite brilliant imo. getting people to deal with societies degenerates for 30k/yr is a skillful art

you need to work on your presentation. i feel like i just read an article on why bigfoot is real and why he was chosen as the main actor in the fabricated moon landing.

re: the actual argument, my local police department can be described in a similar manner. the police have always been fascist corrupt kunts with special authorities over citizens

I don't know what "the actual argument" is supposed to be at this point because you're kinda all over the place.

So let's just focus on the FBI calling its primary function national security instead of law enforcement.

Your argument is that this is just a superficial change.


You are wrong because...
- FBI has doubled the amount of agents it has dedicated to counterterrorism.
- FBI is investigating fewer overall criminal cases, primarily fewer white collar crimes.
- FBI was (erroneously) training its agents that FBI "has the ability to bend or suspend the law and impinge on the rights of others."


These are just a few very significant material differences that have been observed to coincide with the FBI's change to its primary function.

[zolace]

my guess is that their function hasnt rlly changed, just how they present themselves superficially

a cop is a cop, and calling yourself 'special agent' doesn't get you blown or respected any more often (as many special agents only realize after becoming one.)

by appealing to a greater cause like 'national security' ppl in the fbi can pretend theyre more than toe-the-line drones, all while actually being toe-the-line drones.

its actually quite brilliant imo. getting people to deal with societies degenerates for 30k/yr is a skillful art

you need to work on your presentation. i feel like i just read an article on why bigfoot is real and why he was chosen as the main actor in the fabricated moon landing.

re: the actual argument, my local police department can be described in a similar manner. the police have always been fascist corrupt kunts with special authorities over citizens

I don't know what "the actual argument" is supposed to be at this point because you're kinda all over the place.

So let's just focus on the FBI calling its primary function national security instead of law enforcement.

Your argument is that this is just a superficial change.


You are wrong because...
- FBI has doubled the amount of agents it has dedicated to counterterrorism.
- FBI is investigating fewer overall criminal cases, primarily fewer white collar crimes.
- FBI was (erroneously) training its agents that FBI "has the ability to bend or suspend the law and impinge on the rights of others."


These are just a few very significant material differences that have been observed to coincide with the FBI's change to its primary function.

over what time frame? the north american population has doubled within some living people's lifetimes, and us military spending nearly doubled the 10 years after 9/11.

everything is getting bigger.
who decided that violent criminals raping/killing/robbing/deton8ing ppl are less of a threat than rich white collared pricks skimming cash from other rich fucks? you should find this fact comforting.

and for someone who so vocally opposes redundancy between goverment agencies, you should look into what the Secret Service does (hint: it investigates white collar crimes)
this mentality is exactly what you'd expect from a regular old 'law enforcement' officer. please see: burning reds and shooting niggers without penalty (getting reassigned to a desk job doesnt count as a penalty), stop & frisk and wiretapping (unconstitutional ieo), slamming ppl with frivolous charges so they plea bargain down to the original charge, etc etc

[noviapriani]

my guess is that their function hasnt rlly changed, just how they present themselves superficially

a cop is a cop, and calling yourself 'special agent' doesn't get you blown or respected any more often (as many special agents only realize after becoming one.)

by appealing to a greater cause like 'national security' ppl in the fbi can pretend theyre more than toe-the-line drones, all while actually being toe-the-line drones.

its actually quite brilliant imo. getting people to deal with societies degenerates for 30k/yr is a skillful art

you need to work on your presentation. i feel like i just read an article on why bigfoot is real and why he was chosen as the main actor in the fabricated moon landing.

re: the actual argument, my local police department can be described in a similar manner. the police have always been fascist corrupt kunts with special authorities over citizens

I don't know what "the actual argument" is supposed to be at this point because you're kinda all over the place.

So let's just focus on the FBI calling its primary function national security instead of law enforcement.

Your argument is that this is just a superficial change.


You are wrong because...
- FBI has doubled the amount of agents it has dedicated to counterterrorism.
- FBI is investigating fewer overall criminal cases, primarily fewer white collar crimes.
- FBI was (erroneously) training its agents that FBI "has the ability to bend or suspend the law and impinge on the rights of others."


These are just a few very significant material differences that have been observed to coincide with the FBI's change to its primary function.

over what time frame? the north american population has doubled within some living people's lifetimes, and us military spending nearly doubled the 10 years after 9/11.

everything is getting bigger.
who decided that violent criminals raping/killing/robbing/deton8ing ppl are less of a threat than rich white collared pricks skimming cash from other rich fucks? you should find this fact comforting.

and for someone who so vocally opposes redundancy between goverment agencies, you should look into what the Secret Service does (hint: it investigates white collar crimes)
this mentality is exactly what you'd expect from a regular old 'law enforcement' officer. please see: burning reds and shooting niggers without penalty (getting reassigned to a desk job doesnt count as a penalty), stop & frisk and wiretapping (unconstitutional ieo), slamming ppl with frivolous charges so they plea bargain down to the original charge, etc etc

You can put forth some effort in reading my posts if you want to know the time frame. I already said what it was. This is irrelevant. You claimed that the FBI's focus on counterterrorism was nothing more than superficial. I showed that you were wrong. This mentality is something that the FBI wasn't taught prior to its primary function being national security. So again, you were wrong.

[zolace]

to more precisely address your other points:

"boohoo the fbi only stops 50% of terrorist attacks"

the data used to make this conclusion is completely fabricated bc you wouldnt know about any terrorist attacks the fbi has successfully helped prevent

"FBI IS 50% of TERRORIS TATTAKS11"

thats an extraordinary claim, requiring more evidence than excerpts from some (unsourced) article you found on the internet

"fbi is focusing on terrorism to the detriment of national lawfulness"

has interstate criminal enterprise grown since the fbi has reprioritized? where are the stats?

we still have the cia whose overt mission has always been what you're complaining the fbi is doing. for your own emotional wellbeing, just pretend theyve merged together.

unless your problem is not that the fbi is inefficient, but that you inherently dislike terrorism prevention

are you muslim and why do you hate freedom?

[noviapriani]

to more precisely address your other points:

"boohoo the fbi only stops 50% of terrorist attacks"

the data used to make this conclusion is completely fabricated bc you wouldnt know about any terrorist attacks the fbi has successfully helped prevent

"FBI IS 50% of TERRORIS TATTAKS11"

thats an extraordinary claim, requiring more evidence than excerpts from some (unsourced) article you found on the internet

"fbi is focusing on terrorism to the detriment of national lawfulness"

has interstate criminal enterprise grown since the fbi has reprioritized? where are the stats?

we still have the cia whose overt mission has always been what you're complaining the fbi is doing. for your own emotional wellbeing, just pretend theyve merged together.

unless your problem is not that the fbi is inefficient, but that you inherently dislike terrorism prevention

are you muslim and why do you hate freedom?

As usual, you're wrong here too.

The FBI is not shy when it comes to bragging about stopping terrorist plots. The report I cited shows that every single high profile terrorist plot in which the FBI has been involved was a plot that was fabricated by the FBI themselves -- with the exception of four incidents, and of those 4, the FBI only stopped 2.

[noviapriani]

"FBI IS 50% of TERRORIS TATTAKS11"

thats an extraordinary claim, requiring more evidence than excerpts from some (unsourced) article you found on the internet

It's sourced. If you can make it ~5 words into the first sentence of the first post, you'll find the report. Good luck!

"fbi is focusing on terrorism to the detriment of national lawfulness"

has interstate criminal enterprise grown since the fbi has reprioritized? where are the stats?

This is irrelevant to the discussion. I made no claims about whether their focus on terrorism was "to the detriment of national lawfulness." You're a liar.

[zolace]

my guess is that their function hasnt rlly changed, just how they present themselves superficially

a cop is a cop, and calling yourself 'special agent' doesn't get you blown or respected any more often (as many special agents only realize after becoming one.)

by appealing to a greater cause like 'national security' ppl in the fbi can pretend theyre more than toe-the-line drones, all while actually being toe-the-line drones.

its actually quite brilliant imo. getting people to deal with societies degenerates for 30k/yr is a skillful art

you need to work on your presentation. i feel like i just read an article on why bigfoot is real and why he was chosen as the main actor in the fabricated moon landing.

re: the actual argument, my local police department can be described in a similar manner. the police have always been fascist corrupt kunts with special authorities over citizens

I don't know what "the actual argument" is supposed to be at this point because you're kinda all over the place.

So let's just focus on the FBI calling its primary function national security instead of law enforcement.

Your argument is that this is just a superficial change.


You are wrong because...
- FBI has doubled the amount of agents it has dedicated to counterterrorism.
- FBI is investigating fewer overall criminal cases, primarily fewer white collar crimes.
- FBI was (erroneously) training its agents that FBI "has the ability to bend or suspend the law and impinge on the rights of others."


These are just a few very significant material differences that have been observed to coincide with the FBI's change to its primary function.

over what time frame? the north american population has doubled within some living people's lifetimes, and us military spending nearly doubled the 10 years after 9/11.

everything is getting bigger.
who decided that violent criminals raping/killing/robbing/deton8ing ppl are less of a threat than rich white collared pricks skimming cash from other rich fucks? you should find this fact comforting.

and for someone who so vocally opposes redundancy between goverment agencies, you should look into what the Secret Service does (hint: it investigates white collar crimes)
this mentality is exactly what you'd expect from a regular old 'law enforcement' officer. please see: burning reds and shooting niggers without penalty (getting reassigned to a desk job doesnt count as a penalty), stop & frisk and wiretapping (unconstitutional ieo), slamming ppl with frivolous charges so they plea bargain down to the original charge, etc etc

You can put forth some effort in reading my posts if you want to know the time frame. I already said what it was. This is irrelevant. You claimed that the FBI's focus on counterterrorism was nothing more than superficial. I showed that you were wrong. This mentality is something that the FBI wasn't taught prior to its primary function being national security. So again, you were wrong.

fantastic. from 2001 to 2009. almost exactly the time frame i referenced in my post. ("the 10 years after 9/11")

so, my point you just quoted stands. you are incapable of elementary statistical analysis. i suppose if i told you more people die every day today than in 2001, you'd work up something about how the FDA is poisoning our water to get those water-drinking terrorists. if you use a sane metric, like average life expectancy, you'd see that there's actually not a problem.

the sane metric you should be looking at here is 'incidence of domestic terrorism', not the fear-mongering bullshit 50% number you're throwing around.

[noviapriani]

I'm (roughly) throwing around two numbers.

"All of the high-profile domestic terrorism plots of the last decade, with four exceptions"

And

"four exceptions"


The 50% stems from the fact that of those four exceptions, two were successfully carried out.

[zolace]

"FBI IS 50% of TERRORIS TATTAKS11"

thats an extraordinary claim, requiring more evidence than excerpts from some (unsourced) article you found on the internet

It's sourced. If you can make it ~5 words into the first sentence of the first post, you'll find the report. Good luck!

"fbi is focusing on terrorism to the detriment of national lawfulness"

has interstate criminal enterprise grown since the fbi has reprioritized? where are the stats?

This is irrelevant to the discussion. I made no claims about whether their focus on terrorism was "to the detriment of national lawfulness." You're a liar.

you brought up an additional point about white collar crimes being investigated less (the horror!!!), and i responded to that.

the main point you were trying to make ("FBI is investigating fewer overall criminal cases") is misguided for the same reason i explained above.

it doesn't matter how they file their paperwork. a hundred or a million cases closed, who gives a fuck. the proper metric to be concerned with is 'number of people killed' or 'damages incurred by criminal activity.' again, where are these stats?

to illustrate why your metric doesn't work, consider that a shitfuck of people in california are trading/ingesting a schedule i substance (the marijuanas). the fbi can send swat teams to bash down their doors and shoot their dogs; open and close a fuck ton of cases, but the country won't be better off, and only an idiot would be impressed by that 'law enforcement'

[noviapriani]

"FBI IS 50% of TERRORIS TATTAKS11"

thats an extraordinary claim, requiring more evidence than excerpts from some (unsourced) article you found on the internet

It's sourced. If you can make it ~5 words into the first sentence of the first post, you'll find the report. Good luck!

"fbi is focusing on terrorism to the detriment of national lawfulness"

has interstate criminal enterprise grown since the fbi has reprioritized? where are the stats?

This is irrelevant to the discussion. I made no claims about whether their focus on terrorism was "to the detriment of national lawfulness." You're a liar.

you brought up an additional point about white collar crimes being investigated less (the horror!!!), and i responded to that.

the main point you were trying to make ("FBI is investigating fewer overall criminal cases") is misguided for the same reason i explained above.

it doesn't matter how they file their paperwork. a hundred or a million cases closed, who gives a fuck. the proper metric to be concerned with is 'number of people killed' or 'damages incurred by criminal activity.' again, where are these stats?

to illustrate why your metric doesn't work, consider that a shitfuck of people in california are trading/ingesting a schedule i substance (the marijuanas). the fbi can send swat teams to bash down their doors and shoot their dogs; open and close a fuck ton of cases, but the country won't be better off, and only an idiot would be impressed by that 'law enforcement'

The "main point" I was making was that you were wrong: the FBI has in fact changed its primary function from law enforcement to national security.

Look, the FBI themselves are saying that they shifted their focus from law enforcement to national security. You are saying that they didn't. The onus is on you to prove your point. Don't go shitting your pants and crying about how I'm providing you with insufficient data or whateverthefuck. I showed where the FBI has said in no uncertain terms that their primary function is now national security whereas it used to be law enforcement. If you think they're lying, prove it.


I've given you 3 metrics so far that show that the FBI has shifted its focus. Here is another one: more than 40% of the FBI's operating budget of $3.3 billion is now devoted to counterterrorism.

- http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/pu...11com_0404.pdf
- http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/FBI/a0537/final.pdf
- http://www.justice.gov/jmd/2013summa...ud-summary.pdf