Is there anything here worth of investing?

[zy02264]

Sure there are some decent companies there, AM should be one of them. But whether it worth to invest is totally another question. You never know where the market is heading to. Even for AM, there still someone bought shares for 4 BTC per share and totally screwed up.

[sporket]

The American Passenger Pigeon, once a staple food of American Indians, is now extinct.
Consider the chilling parallels between this noble bird's tragic tale and the plight of the Bitcoin Investor.

"At a nesting site in Petoskey, Michigan in 1878, 50,000 birds Bitcoin investors were killed each day for nearly five months. The surviving adults attempted a second nesting at new sites, but were killed by professional hunters before they had a chance to raise any young."^[1]
...
"Still another way [of hunting Bitcoin investors] was to simply set a nesting tree on fire, cooking the doves investors or collecting them as they tried to escape."^[1]
...
"Two farmers from the vicinity of Russelsville, distant more than a hundred miles, had driven upwards of three hundred hogs to be fattened on the pigeons Bitcoin investors which were to be slaughtered. Here and there, the people employed in plucking and salting what had already been procured, were seen sitting in the midst of large piles of these birds amateur financiers. The dung lay several inches deep, covering the whole extent of the roosting-place."^[1]

1.  Passenger Pigeon, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Pigeon#Hunting

[twentyseventy]

I am seriously considering opening my arbitrage program to outside money after my next upgrade, but there would be a handful of unique benefits to any investors:
1: investment may take the form of a bond. So, if I lost the money, I would be held legally liable and my personal property could be taken to repay investors. This is a big deal - there is no way to run away from investors in this scenario. Also, investors would have access to my personal and contact info.
2: All funds, both principal and interest, would be returned simultaneously to all investors on regular cycles. This works well with the bond form of investment, and proves that the investment can't be a ponzi scheme because it's not possible to use Peter's money to pay Paul when both Peter and Paul get their money back at the same time. All investors would be required to submit their deposit address when they first join, so I could ensure that everyone gets their money back exactly as scheduled.
3: Because it's a bond, investors would have a promised return amount, and they would get the amount whether my program is profitable or not. If I don't make profit, then I would pay the interest out of pocket.
4: I would show some of the security precautions over the program - things like professional off-site hosting, encryption, etc.
5: I attend major Bitcoin events and am more than willing to meet potential investors or partners

I wanted to wait for the crazy money and fraudulent HYIP to go away, because there is no way for an honest program to compete with the ridiculous claims of 100% profits in a month that some of those things promised. Unfortunately, almost all of those programs failed and the thieves are nowhere to be found. I expected scammers to be caught and brought to justice and this would discourage future scams, but this has yet to happen.

Even if you're honest, you're completely wrong.

1: investment may take the form of a bond. So, if I lost the money, I would be held legally liable and my personal property could be taken to repay investors. This is a big deal - there is no way to run away from investors in this scenario. Also, investors would have access to my personal and contact info.

Held legally liable? In one jurisdiction. With parties outside that jurisdiction trying to seize whatever assets you might have? How did that work out with John Montroll / Ukyo and Danny Brewster? People know exactly who they are and haven't gotten a dime.

2: All funds, both principal and interest, would be returned simultaneously to all investors on regular cycles. This works well with the bond form of investment, and proves that the investment can't be a ponzi scheme because it's not possible to use Peter's money to pay Paul when both Peter and Paul get their money back at the same time. All investors would be required to submit their deposit address when they first join, so I could ensure that everyone gets their money back exactly as scheduled.

Unless you pay in excess of all invested capital (you pay out more in total than all invested capital), then you can't prove that it's not a Ponzi. Regularly scheduled payments that look like interest / principal payments can just as easily be payouts from existing/new investors unless you can independently verify (on the blockchain) that the remaining funds do still exist.

3: Because it's a bond, investors would have a promised return amount, and they would get the amount whether my program is profitable or not. If I don't make profit, then I would pay the interest out of pocket.

Bonds sounds like fun, but they've turned out terribly for investors. Ukyo loan? Graet loan? TAT's bond is an success in a field of failures, but that's about it. And how much capital on hand do you have to pay interest out of pocket?

[Benny1985]

The problem is that even if something is worth investing in, it doesn't matter. The trolls/FUDsters paid by certain parties will tear it down. I'd like to think that my brother and I's companies have done well - we've been around for over a year, paying dividends / working with shareholders. Multiple physical visits, ect. Does that matter? Nope. You'll find a few people that make money off negativity, or have some sort of ulterior motive in place.

[NotLambchop]

Benny, you're 2 legit 2 quit

Another deletion spree in the "Send me ur monyz nao" thread.  

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

You don't understand how interweb works.  The trail of slime you left behind you can't be deleted.  You have done this once too many times, and now both you and your scamming brother are getting fed to the lions for the amusement of all.

Just like REAL Christians.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Nah, this is not going away.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Lol, stackin' that cheddar!


http://20yearbillionaire.com/who-is-the-worlds-richest-man-i-am/

Lol, like clockwork!  Teh Twins are coverin' their tracks
A bit too late, but it's the thought that counts, amiright?



...But Teh Tiem Machine Nevar 4gits!!  
https://web.archive.org/web/20110828180209/http://20yearbillionaire.com/who-is-the-worlds-richest-man-i-am/

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

...
I dono but maybe I read the news to much, but every company I have ever seen go public has never hide a key player unless something is a foul. This should be interesting if they can produce a Mr. John K Freeman, maybe they will do like tocobell and find all the Ronald McDonalds bwhaha.

Pretty sure if it was Ok'd with the SEC all parties in the IPO would be listed... like directors. So can we see what you sent the SEC?

Mr. Freeman is not only a key player, he is the asset issuer.  What's more, there are many "John K. Freeman[ s]," but the issuer is not "K," but rather "Kenton," limiting us to a much narrower set



https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6gZtLSqKPzQY05JZm1MSVNFaEk/edit

@RiverBoatBTC:  will post the fraudulent SEC filing in a sec.

Here:
 https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1598311/000159831114000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml

[/quote]

[Phildo]

The problem is that even if something is worth investing in, it doesn't matter. The trolls/FUDsters paid by certain parties will tear it down. I'd like to think that my brother and I's companies have done well - we've been around for over a year, paying dividends / working with shareholders. Multiple physical visits, ect. Does that matter? Nope. You'll find a few people that make money off negativity, or have some sort of ulterior motive in place.

How great can the company be if it can't handle a few trolls? Trolls can't stop you from doing your business (if they can and you can't handle it, it's not a great investment). If your company is legit, you would be able to answer the trolls questions, or ignore them and carry out your business, earn money for your investors and move on.

[Benny1985]

The problem is that even if something is worth investing in, it doesn't matter. The trolls/FUDsters paid by certain parties will tear it down. I'd like to think that my brother and I's companies have done well - we've been around for over a year, paying dividends / working with shareholders. Multiple physical visits, ect. Does that matter? Nope. You'll find a few people that make money off negativity, or have some sort of ulterior motive in place.

How great can the company be if it can't handle a few trolls? Trolls can't stop you from doing your business (if they can and you can't handle it, it's not a great investment). If your company is legit, you would be able to answer the trolls questions, or ignore them and carry out your business, earn money for your investors and move on.

The problem is that some trolls simply don't want answers. You'll never find NotLambChop trolling an MPEx thread. Why? Why do we find the vast majority of his posts targeted at Havelock-based companies, and not Cryptostocks, or others?

And you're correct that you can do business in spite of the trolls. But it doesn't help your company out when people throw out wild, baseless accusations. We've been a company for over a year, sold tons of products, and have never had a single instance of a troll attacking our business... Until we post on BitcoinTalk. Strange, eh?

[NotLambchop]

...
The problem is that some trolls simply don't want answers. You'll never find NotLambChop trolling an MPEx thread. Why? Why do we find the vast majority of his posts targeted at Havelock-based companies, and not Cryptostocks, or others?...

Because there is no MPEx thread?  

Re: Cryptostocks:

...
What you seem to be forgetting is that most scams and all ponzis pay out great at the beginning, that's how they attract savvy investing enthusiasts such as yourself.
In a few months, I'll drop you a condolences gif and offer you a virtual shoulder to sob on.

...followed, in a few months days, by me making good on mah promise:

...
The onus is still on you to answer why you still think this is a scam, especially in light of being asked following the good faith moves the project manager(s) made in an effort to try and dispel ambiguity and suspicion.
...

Noobthegreat!
In light of the project manager(s) running away after making an effort to try and dispel ambiguity and suspicion, here's that condolences gif I promised you.
Already gave one to SamboNZ, so this one's all yours, friend!

Sorry for your loss!

That's integrity and follow-through

[chris45215]

Unless you pay in excess of all invested capital (you pay out more in total than all invested capital), then you can't prove that it's not a Ponzi. Regularly scheduled payments that look like interest / principal payments can just as easily be payouts from existing/new investors unless you can independently verify (on the blockchain) that the remaining funds do still exist.

3: Because it's a bond, investors would have a promised return amount, and they would get the amount whether my program is profitable or not. If I don't make profit, then I would pay the interest out of pocket.

Bonds sounds like fun, but they've turned out terribly for investors. Ukyo loan? Graet loan? TAT's bond is an success in a field of failures, but that's about it. And how much capital on hand do you have to pay interest out of pocket?

Thanks for the critiques, it provides a lot to think about. Out of pocket, I could pay several thousand dollars worth of interest if my system didnt make any profit. I could do a proof of reserves pretty easily.

To clarify, the bond payouts would be in excess of all investor's capital. If I did 1-month bonds of $100 with 10% interest over that period (denominated in USD), all investors would receive $110 back, and they would all receive it simultaneously - I could set the payout day as the last day of the month for simplicity. Then, on the subsequent day, I could start a new round of investments, and invite the prior investors to invest again and the new bonds would be accepted over a period of a few days. I wouldnt accept any investment outside the posted rounds. I could set up a single address to receive all incoming funds, post the address, and at the end of the month I would send all funds back out through that address. If anyone tried to send money to that address mid-month, I could immediately send it back to the investor and add them to the contacts list so they would be informed of the start of the next round.
This strategy does have a downside that I would need to regularly liquidate and I would not have any of the investment money for 1 or 2 days per month. But, it would be publicly available proof of the amount of funds going in and the amount being sent back out, and anyone could check that each transaction out is 110% of each transaction in (after converting to dollars). I would prefer if each investor can accept the funds back using the same address that they sent from, but that may not be possible for all investors.
I could accept and manage the funds as btc-denominated amounts if the majority of investors really wanted that. Id prefer to do it all as dollars or all as BTC, as this would be simpler for other people to independently verify.

[Phildo]

The problem is that even if something is worth investing in, it doesn't matter. The trolls/FUDsters paid by certain parties will tear it down. I'd like to think that my brother and I's companies have done well - we've been around for over a year, paying dividends / working with shareholders. Multiple physical visits, ect. Does that matter? Nope. You'll find a few people that make money off negativity, or have some sort of ulterior motive in place.

How great can the company be if it can't handle a few trolls? Trolls can't stop you from doing your business (if they can and you can't handle it, it's not a great investment). If your company is legit, you would be able to answer the trolls questions, or ignore them and carry out your business, earn money for your investors and move on.

The problem is that some trolls simply don't want answers. You'll never find NotLambChop trolling an MPEx thread. Why? Why do we find the vast majority of his posts targeted at Havelock-based companies, and not Cryptostocks, or others?

And you're correct that you can do business in spite of the trolls. But it doesn't help your company out when people throw out wild, baseless accusations. We've been a company for over a year, sold tons of products, and have never had a single instance of a troll attacking our business... Until we post on BitcoinTalk. Strange, eh?

It's not strange at all. Notlambchop didn't start attacking you until you started posting somewhere that he would read, not strange. As to the other exchanges, that may be true, but doesn't really matter. "the bully isn't picking on that guy" doesn't solve your problem, and doesn't really change anything.

If he doesn't have a point, he will have no impact on you, if he does have a point, him attacking an Mpex thread will have no impact on you. Wild baseless accusations can't help, but they can't really hurt either if they are baseless. how do posts on this forum stop you from buying miners? how do they stop you from selling miners? they may make it a little harder to sell them on this forum, but doing what you say you are going to do will do a lot more good for your company than the harm that can come from wild baseless accusations.

[crazyivan]

Anything else?

[BayAreaCoins]

Anything else?

I like Huntercoin.  

Super low market cap and blah blah blah

[crazyivan]

Anything else?

I like Huntercoin.  

Super low market cap and blah blah blah

What, simple mining?

[Phildo]

After thinking about it, it seems like most of these securities fit into the same pattern.

People want x

I should buy x and sell it to people.

You guys should give me the money to buy x (and pay me) then when I sell x to the people we will get rich.

This is an even riskier type of insvestment than a regular startup because there is extra risk.

My advice would be, if you want to invest in a company that's selling bitcoin miners, invest in someone that has product to sell or will make the product close to on their own. If you want to invest in a bitcoin exchange, invest in someone that knows how to code and has the basics down. Try to minimize the middle men because the more steps involved in the process, the more places where things can go wrong and you can end up losing your money.

[NotLambchop]

^That.

[theskillzdatklls]

With the closing of just-dice everything else just seems weak. Nearly everything that I even start to read loses me with their inability to type decent english.

[BayAreaCoins]

With the closing of just-dice everything else just seems weak. Nearly everything that I even start to read loses me with their inability to type decent english.

www.dicebitco.in

Anything else?

I like Huntercoin. 

Super low market cap and blah blah blah

What, simple mining?

Human mining

In world wallet that you have to control a general to capture coins much like capture the flag. Network secured by dual-algo (SHA-256 & SCRYPT) both of which are merge mined (you can earn Huntercoin while mining BTC or LTC.) It is a fork of NMC

[michaelGedi]

there was a porn guy starting up a business, he looked quite good...

[michaelGedi]

...
AsicMiner, have had no experience with them. Is there anyone here who can share experience about AsicMiner?

Sure.

Ha Awesome. Yeah, that really does sum up the performance and thus experience a lot of people had with that stock over the last year. But everyone keep in mind, that it may go up again, since friedcat (the boss) is going to announce news in 2 days. He will also start the self-mining again and intends to shake the mining world.

lambchops also forgets (remembers to forget) to post that the asset started it's wavey line 3 times lower than where it is now. So, we would have a big bulge, like a mountai. A mountain of profit that was made by some lucky ones while others just enjoyed part of the ride up the mountain. They are set to start mining again soon(ish), and may be in a position to claim upto 15-20% of the network.

[NotLambchop]

...
AsicMiner, have had no experience with them. Is there anyone here who can share experience about AsicMiner?

Sure.

Ha Awesome. Yeah, that really does sum up the performance and thus experience a lot of people had with that stock over the last year. But everyone keep in mind, that it may go up again, since friedcat (the boss) is going to announce news in 2 days. He will also start the self-mining again and intends to shake the mining world.

lambchops also forgets (remembers to forget) to post that the asset started it's wavey line 3 times lower than where it is now. So, we would have a big bulge, like a mountai. A mountain of profit that was made by some lucky ones while others just enjoyed part of the ride up the mountain. They are set to start mining again soon(ish), and may be in a position to claim upto 15-20% of the network.

NotLambchop forgets nothing.  The chart ("wavey [sic] line," to use your term) is the entire history of AsicMiner on Havelock.  AsicMiner differs from the rest of Havelock offerings only in the extent of the losses to the "investors."  To this day, each and every "security" currently offered by Havelock has lost money to its "investors."  For a detailed breakdown of failure, see Havelock Securities At A Glance: The SRS BZNZ Edition.

  ~Happy Investing!