Bitcoin is like cash under the mattress

[Anders]

One side of Bitcoin is the powerful, decentralized peer-to-peer authority-free part. The other side is the hassle and burden for people to manage the cumbersome storage of their bitcoins or trust some authority to secure their bitcoins. That latter part truly sucks. It's like going back a century when people had to store cash under the mattress or go to a bank with their money.

Something needs to be done to solve this problem. What is needed is for the bitcoins to be automatically secure. For example by introducing a personal ID system so that the bitcoins on the block chain are uniquely identified that way and thereby effortlessly and trustlessly secure.

[beetcoin]

and how would an ID system work? the best option we have now for easy security is an ETF. otherwise, if you don't know how to manage your coins, you shouldn't be having them in the first place. it would be nice if everybody knew how to protect their coins, but that's just not the case.

[jjc326]

I do think it would be cool if there was some big Bitcoin bank that paid interest.  But then the bank would need to be insured by some government entity and it would destroy the independence of Bitcoin.

[Anders]

and how would an ID system work? the best option we have now for easy security is an ETF. otherwise, if you don't know how to manage your coins, you shouldn't be having them in the first place. it would be nice if everybody knew how to protect their coins, but that's just not the case.

For example every person on the planet could be given a personal IPv6 address. And then people can choose to use ordinary Bitcoin addresses or their IPv6 address. And people could use both, so that payments could still be made anonymously.

[Anders]

Today Bitcoin is a bit like a Star Trek warp drive mounted on a horse wagon.

[Anders]

Here is a presentation about how to secure your bitcoins: MIT Bitcoin Expo 2014 -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqlvk51uS1M&t=1h3m20s

Extremely cumbersome and old tech imo. The presenter even talks about having to store codes on several physical papers. Do we really want to go back to the 19th century?

[bigasic]

Im positive that in a few years (if not a lot sooner) securing bitcoin will be easier than pulling out a credit card, while I think its pretty easy, people that aren't very tach savvy have issues. But being decentralized has its benefits and pitfalls.

[Elwar]

Maybe some sort of multi-sig technology.

If only such a thing existed.

[Anders]

Maybe some sort of multi-sig technology.

If only such a thing existed.

I was thinking something like this:

"System and method for global access control
US 7818783 B2
Abstract
The global access control system and method presents a solution to synchronizing the physical access devices that federal agencies must try to meet Federal Information Processing Standards (FIPS) 201 requirements. The method encompasses wire and wireless technology, IP Security (IPSec), the assignment of IPv6 addresses to every device, integrating with logical access control systems, and providing a homogeneous audit and control format. As part of FIPS 201, Government identification badges (Personal Identity Verification (PIV) cards) will include an IPv6 address that uniquely identifies every card holder. By assigning an IPv6 address to every access device and using the card holder's IPv6 address, every access device can be used for global access control. Moreover, common and interoperable audit records throughout an entire enterprise (logical and physical) are possible. This unique combination of technologies provides a mechanism for integrating heterogeneous systems to provide merging of physical and logical access control systems." -- http://www.google.com.ar/patents/US7818783

Somewhat Orwellian but for both security and convenience something like that could be used.

[franky1]

i laugh at these idea's

YOU DO HAVE AN ID

its called the private key. keep it safe. and away from a PC or third party until you need it.

any other form of ID can be used or abused the same way a privkey can.

EG if its too short, purely to remember it. then hackers could easily guess it sing rainbow/brute force.
EG if its saved on your computer, a trojan can get to your ID
EG if you entrust it to a online service to make it convenient, you have to trust them
EG if multisig these sigs need to be kept safe. (see last 3 examples as what not to do)
EG if its too long to remember so its stored securely on paper or offline, atleast its not on your PC

so ID, multisig or privkey are all the same thing and will ALL require the same precautions .... basically STORE OFFLINE!

what i prefer to see is a offline service tool (hardware wallet) that forms the signed transaction. and you via QR code push the transaction to a computer, cashiers desk, online service. thus keeping your private key safe and offline.

[TookDk]

One side of Bitcoin is the powerful, decentralized peer-to-peer authority-free part. The other side is the hassle and burden for people to manage the cumbersome storage of their bitcoins or trust some authority to secure their bitcoins. That latter part truly sucks. It's like going back a century when people had to store cash under the mattress or go to a bank with their money.

Something needs to be done to solve this problem. What is needed is for the bitcoins to be automatically secure. For example by introducing a personal ID system so that the bitcoins on the block chain are uniquely identified that way and thereby effortlessly and trustlessly secure.

Definitely an issue for none-technical people, I made a coin trade (sold physical coins for bitcoins) some time ago where I meet with the person at his place, I brought a couple blank paperwallets, so hi could transfer some bitcoins to me.
I was horrified when I saw how he paid me, he logged into a well known exchange and transfered the coins to my paper-wallet directly from the exhange, and I saw his balance, he had a 3 digit number of coins floating on the exchange. Not sure if he had balls or was stupid.

Anyway, I love the fact that I am in control of securing my own coins.
With a solid encryption and storage of my files at multiple locations, then am I sure my bitcoins are ok, the weak link ofcause is when I want to transfer some of them to my hot wallet, happens luckily very rarely  

[TookDk]

i laugh at these idea's

YOU DO HAVE AN ID

its called the private key. keep it safe. and away from a PC or third party until you need it.

any other form of ID can be used or abused the same way a privkey can.

EG if its too short, purely to remember it. then hackers could easily guess it sing rainbow/brute force.
EG if its saved on your computer, a trojan can get to your ID
EG if you entrust it to a online service to make it convenient, you have to trust them
EG if its too long to remember so its stored securely on paper or offline, atleast its not on your PC

so ID or privkey are both the same thing and will both require the same precautions

what i prefer to see is a offline service tool (hardware wallet) that forms the signed transaction. and you via QR code push the transaction to a computer, cashiers desk, online service. thus keeping your private key safe and offline.

+1

Exactly. The trick is: keep your private keys safe.

Edit. Also a good idea to have different level of security: 1. Hotwallet (not too secure, only for small amounts, but easy to access). 2. Cold storage on dedicated device (for medium term storage, middle sized amounts). 3. Paper wallets or heavy encrypted private keys (long term storage, your retirement savings).

[Anders]

i laugh at these idea's

YOU DO HAVE AN ID

its called the private key. keep it safe. and away from a PC or third party until you need it.

any other form of ID can be used or abused the same way a privkey can.

EG if its too short, purely to remember it. then hackers could easily guess it sing rainbow/brute force.
EG if its saved on your computer, a trojan can get to your ID
EG if you entrust it to a online service to make it convenient, you have to trust them
EG if multisig these sigs need to be kept safe. (see last 3 examples as what not to do)
EG if its too long to remember so its stored securely on paper or offline, atleast its not on your PC

so ID, multisig or privkey are all the same thing and will ALL require the same precautions .... basically STORE OFFLINE!

what i prefer to see is a offline service tool (hardware wallet) that forms the signed transaction. and you via QR code push the transaction to a computer, cashiers desk, online service. thus keeping your private key safe and offline.

That's way too old tech for me. I don't even want to back up my computer files locally! I want it all on the cloud. At the same time other people may want to handle their own security and privacy. So both options should be available for Bitcoin.

I don't know if a personal ID could be added to the Bitcoin protocol. It would be powerful if both personal IDs and ordinary Bitcoin addresses could be used. I would then store most if not all of my bitcoins (if I had any) with my personal ID so that they would be secure automatically. Another person may want to do the opposite and store most of his or her bitcoins with Bitcoin addresses and only a few if any bitcoins with the personal ID. That allows maximum personal freedom and flexibility.

[TookDk]

That's way too old tech for me. I don't even want to back up my computer files locally! I want it all on the cloud. At the same time other people may want to handle their own security and privacy. So both options should be available for Bitcoin.

I don't know if a personal ID could be added to the Bitcoin protocol. It would be powerful if both personal IDs and ordinary Bitcoin addresses could be used. I would then store most if not all of my bitcoins (if I had any) with my personal ID so that they would be secure automatically. Another person may want to do the opposite and store most of his or her bitcoins with Bitcoin addresses and only a few if any bitcoins with the personal ID. That allows maximum personal freedom and flexibility.

The problems starts when your "personal ID" gets compromised.

[jonald_fyookball]

There's a simple solution.

It's called Electrum.

You simply need to memorize a 12 word seed,
and that's all you ever need to get your
bitcoins. 

Simple, safe, and secure.

If you are afraid of forgetting the seed,
you can hide a copy of it inside
an image.

[Anders]

any other form of ID can be used or abused the same way a privkey can.

The IPv6 personal ID system I was thinking about would be secure. It's true that no such system exists today as far as I know yet it's probably coming soon to a ID card near you...

[Anders]

That's way too old tech for me. I don't even want to back up my computer files locally! I want it all on the cloud. At the same time other people may want to handle their own security and privacy. So both options should be available for Bitcoin.

I don't know if a personal ID could be added to the Bitcoin protocol. It would be powerful if both personal IDs and ordinary Bitcoin addresses could be used. I would then store most if not all of my bitcoins (if I had any) with my personal ID so that they would be secure automatically. Another person may want to do the opposite and store most of his or her bitcoins with Bitcoin addresses and only a few if any bitcoins with the personal ID. That allows maximum personal freedom and flexibility.

The problems starts when your "personal ID" gets compromised.

Biometrics and things like that are probably needed. So I admit that it's a tricky and big problem to solve.

[jonald_fyookball]

That's way too old tech for me. I don't even want to back up my computer files locally! I want it all on the cloud. At the same time other people may want to handle their own security and privacy. So both options should be available for Bitcoin.

I don't know if a personal ID could be added to the Bitcoin protocol. It would be powerful if both personal IDs and ordinary Bitcoin addresses could be used. I would then store most if not all of my bitcoins (if I had any) with my personal ID so that they would be secure automatically. Another person may want to do the opposite and store most of his or her bitcoins with Bitcoin addresses and only a few if any bitcoins with the personal ID. That allows maximum personal freedom and flexibility.

The problems starts when your "personal ID" gets compromised.

Biometrics and things like that are probably needed. So I admit that it's a tricky and big problem to solve.

Its a problem that doesn't need solving, certainly not at the protocol level anyway.
If there is a demand for it, some entrepreneur will create a biometric wallet.

And it is a very ill-conceived idea to start putting any kind of personal IDs
into the protocol.  From there,  it is a slippery slope to dangerous regulation and control.

Big no on that.

[TookDk]

That's way too old tech for me. I don't even want to back up my computer files locally! I want it all on the cloud. At the same time other people may want to handle their own security and privacy. So both options should be available for Bitcoin.

I don't know if a personal ID could be added to the Bitcoin protocol. It would be powerful if both personal IDs and ordinary Bitcoin addresses could be used. I would then store most if not all of my bitcoins (if I had any) with my personal ID so that they would be secure automatically. Another person may want to do the opposite and store most of his or her bitcoins with Bitcoin addresses and only a few if any bitcoins with the personal ID. That allows maximum personal freedom and flexibility.

The problems starts when your "personal ID" gets compromised.

Biometrics and things like that are probably needed. So I admit that it's a tricky and big problem to solve.

Biometric is unfortunate not deterministic, since the human biology is not constant. Therefor is poorly suited for decryption or message signing. Perhaps 10-15 years from now, but the technology and infrastructure is not ready in its current state.

[Anders]

There's a simple solution.

It's called Electrum.

You simply need to memorize a 12 word seed,
and that's all you ever need to get your
bitcoins. 

Simple, safe, and secure.

If you are afraid of forgetting the seed,
you can hide a copy of it inside
an image.

But what about the security? If someone would hack into a smartphone the 12 words could be stolen. Or does the person enter all 12 words for every payment? Imagine paying for a Big Mac and having to manually type in 12 words.