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Author Topic: Incentive destroys change | Leave BC alone create sister currencies pegged to it  (Read 2888 times)
AntiVigilante
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May 04, 2011, 10:03:38 AM
 #1

Two of the biggest problems in getting people interested in doing anything are:
Blowhards who turn productive people into catatonic cheerleaders
Blowhards who turn create creative problem solvers away with their never ending dissatisfaction

Blowhards are unpredictable. The creative problem solver, the very person who does not need to be incentivized, cannot get their community conscious solutions through. There's no telling how much tweaking and distortion blowhards are going to do to the currency. This sabotages their work.

Blowhards are hysterical paranoid emo twunts who need constant confirmation (while denying most criticism). They will never be satisfied that their improvements are working. They will keep tweaking the system. Eventually they make so much noise that the productive people will wait for the advice of the loud ones before they do the simplest thing.

They are like FEMA. I called the American Bus Association during Katrina to get them to send buses. They said they would do nothing until FEMA asked them to. So instead of taking action when the people (whom supposedly FEMA was intended to protect) ask, they wait for the bloated panopticon to act.

Keep these people out. They will intrude into your shower to get information. They are intellectual parasites, info stalkers, who need a relationship with you to be temporarily comfortable in their existence.

Let bitcoin be a reference currency. Leave it alone.

What part of I am my own bank don't you get?

We are done with the pyramid of authority. Go away.
We can inflate bitcoin and deflate by merely dropping bitcoins and scooping them up without any blowhard panopticon.

Create something akin to bitcoin and pegged to it like the following:
Diskcoin - Storage oriented - you can deflate it by compressing storage and inflate it by renting out the space.
Bandcoin - Transmission oriented - you can inflate or deflate it by traffic shaping and synchronizing broadcasts.
Cyclecoin - Work oriented - you can inflate or deflate it by applying a cycle fee to all orders of work.
Servcoin - Basket oriented - a mix of the above at a better price than individual

Do whatever you like with those.

You blowhards are not the only ones who have solutions. One set of your solutions prevents others from coming up with their own lifting themselves and each other up. And I, and I'm confident most proactive bitcoin users as well, will not stand for that.

Solutions interfere with each other. That's unacceptable.

Welcome to the wikipedia of currency. Get out of the way.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
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May 04, 2011, 11:42:18 AM
 #2

I dont know whether to laugh or cry. But I do know there are some people trying to do the equivalent of cramming facebook into the lean mean bitcoin blockchain. This creates a parasitic system where we are forced to support bloated block sizes and excess transaction fees.



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May 04, 2011, 12:13:13 PM
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... there are some people trying to do the equivalent of cramming facebook into the lean mean bitcoin blockchain. This creates a parasitic system where we are forced to support bloated block sizes and excess transaction fees.
So? If enough people don't want that, they'll pool their mining with a pool operator who doesn't accept such transactions. If enough people find it useful, they'll mine with the operator of BloatPool. Not worth sweating about.
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May 04, 2011, 01:01:30 PM
 #4

I for one love these threads where people take a genius idea, then try to put a twist on it, and make it an absolutely horrible one.
Anonymous
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May 04, 2011, 01:14:35 PM
 #5

... there are some people trying to do the equivalent of cramming facebook into the lean mean bitcoin blockchain. This creates a parasitic system where we are forced to support bloated block sizes and excess transaction fees.
So? If enough people don't want that, they'll pool their mining with a pool operator who doesn't accept such transactions. If enough people find it useful, they'll mine with the operator of BloatPool. Not worth sweating about.

They can stick the bloat on their own block chain imo. Bitcoin is for financial transacting.
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May 04, 2011, 02:29:41 PM
 #6

+1

People please recognise genius and elegance of bitcoin and stop trying to bloat it.

If you are not capable of the above. Go make your own currency with whatever bloat you want in it.


But what if we made a new block chain and pegged it to blowjobs?  Then I could mine for those!
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May 04, 2011, 02:34:43 PM
 #7

Wait. You all understood that?

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May 04, 2011, 06:11:59 PM
 #8

Wait. You all understood that?

LOL. I guess.

I hadn't my morning Encyclopedia Dramatica before I posted it.

In any case. There are many of us who need a currency without automatic features. The demurrage and inflation would conflict with massive solutions we have planned. Like I said, create sister currencies and do whatever you like with them. Leave square one alone so all can come up with solutions. This isn't about a Sunday drive where we try a new dish. This is building a counter economy right under the manipulator's noses.

Tweakers, stay the hell out of the way.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
pusle
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May 04, 2011, 08:36:01 PM
 #9


first half +1
second half -1


Behold! We bow before this perfection by the Lord, delivered onto us by his one true prophet Satoshi!   
Those who do not believe, as we believe, they are heretics and shall be silenced!     Roll Eyes







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May 04, 2011, 08:46:33 PM
 #10

The OP is utterly incomprehensible to me.

+1 if you agree.
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May 04, 2011, 11:51:44 PM
 #11

The OP is utterly incomprehensible to me.

+1 if you agree.

I'm asking to be able to work with unpainted clay ('bitcoin without incentives, demurrage, inflation').
I'm asking to be able to work with the bare bones without arbitrary features interfering with solutions.

Basing a solution on a currency without built in incentives is necessary.
Incentives overshadow and undermine spending based on long term concerns.
People who need to change bitcoin are constantly worried changes aren't enough.
People who need to change bitcoin are imposing a change on the whole community.
People who need to change bitcoin drive productive bitcoin users into a cheering corner where the users no longer come up with solutions themselves.
People who need to change bitcoin say that people have no interest to act other than by incentive.
People who need to change bitcoin are the ones driving away that interest.

pusle,

If the only thing you can respond with is accusing people of being dogmatic, go troll elsewhere.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
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May 05, 2011, 12:48:00 AM
 #12

This is an interesting thread. Here's my take:

Bitcoin is a fantastic tool, as it stands. Thus, I embrace it.

When it is no longer a useful tool, I will toss it like a broken clock.

In the face of what's coming is that an option?

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
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May 05, 2011, 01:33:21 AM
 #13

This is an interesting thread. Here's my take:

Bitcoin is a fantastic tool, as it stands. Thus, I embrace it.

When it is no longer a useful tool, I will toss it like a broken clock.

In the face of what's coming is that an option?

It's not that easy to change Bitcoin. This isn't OpenOffice, you need the miners and investors to adopt your modification to the code or it's all naught.

btcarmory.com
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youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin


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May 05, 2011, 05:39:19 AM
 #14

This is an interesting thread. Here's my take:

Bitcoin is a fantastic tool, as it stands. Thus, I embrace it.

When it is no longer a useful tool, I will toss it like a broken clock.

In the face of what's coming is that an option?

Of course it's an option. Unless people are forcing me at gunpoint to use Bitcoin. In which case, they had better hope their guns are bigger than mine. That's not too hard though...

or "My GPUs are bigger than yours..."

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
Anonymous
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May 05, 2011, 10:51:08 AM
 #15

Imagine Bitcoin is a pile of bricks. All the bricks are the same. They have shape and size of a brick, you know that simple rectangulish thing. You can build a house with those.

But there are people which are not happy, they want one large spherical brick with holes in it so that they can simply roll it somewhere, dig it into the ground a bit,  put windows into the holes and make it their home.

These large round brick advocates come to the brick factory and complain that bricks are not round and not big and without holes, and demand that all the bricks from now on are made to their specification. Do you know what a brick factory operator would tell them? Yes it will be "go and make you own brick factory and make your own brick and do not bother me with this BS anymore".

When the bankers notice bitcoin will they shit bricks ?
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May 05, 2011, 11:36:25 AM
 #16

Imagine Bitcoin is a pile of bricks. All the bricks are the same. They have shape and size of a brick, you know that simple rectangulish thing. You can build a house with those.

But there are people which are not happy, they want one large spherical brick with holes in it so that they can simply roll it somewhere, dig it into the ground a bit,  put windows into the holes and make it their home.

These large round brick advocates come to the brick factory and complain that bricks are not round and not big and without holes, and demand that all the bricks from now on are made to their specification. Do you know what a brick factory operator would tell them? Yes it will be "go and make you own brick factory and make your own brick and do not bother me with this BS anymore".

Thank you Jesus.

Mind if I PM - I might have something you might be interested in.

These people are never happy. Never forget.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
Anonymous
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May 05, 2011, 12:53:26 PM
 #17

LOL, they indeed will, I am not sure though whether it will be regular or large round bricks  Grin

Or if they poke holes in them  Cheesy
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