How is XAPO getting away with this bull*hit?!

[CryptoPanda]

For about 3 months they were clearly stating in their debit card FAQ that there will be NO FEES. Just $15 to get it shipped and then NOTHING.
Now that they started shipping, suddenly you can see this in the FAQ:
http://help.xapo.com/95219-What-fees-are-associated-with-the-Xapo-Debit-Card
For the too lazy to click a link, the fees are exorbitant and are for everything! Even some made-up sh*t that no other card charges you.
How come, supposedly serious company, with 40M in funding (the biggest funding so far in bitcoin world with bitpay just behind them with 33M) do such bitch like tricks?

What's the point of claiming it will be free for 3 months just to turn around 2 days after shipping the product and cut your users heads with crazy fees?
How are the serious and with good names VC companies behind them allowing that?


I had big hopes for them, but they are worse than bank now and started by making them the most hated company in the bitcoin world.
I say we boycott them and show them that they can get their bit*h a*s, corporate tricks back to their corporate world.

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[blatchcorn]

I am not 'boycotting' them, but I certainly will not be using the card with those kind of ridiculous fees.  One clear problem Bitcoin has with operating purely in a free market is that only private companies will progress Bitcoin for a profit, thereby creating fees Bitcoin was designed to avoid 

[Gleb Gamow]

[redhawk979]

Oh noez Free Market

[protokol]

Yeah that is bullshit to be fair. I will certainly not be using any card with fees like that.

Minimum 50p charge for checking your balance, and £2.50 for taking money out - even banks would lose customers if they tried pulling that shit!

[knight22]

I just canceled by debit card. Fees are exorbitant and not competitive at all. 

[dadugan]

Same as credit card.

That kind of show people only the benefactor of the profit is switching when we all use bitcoin rather than FIAT. Nothing really changes.

[inBitweTrust]

Outrageous , Just cancelled my account with them and withdrew all my bitcoins besides the paltry 50bits and a transaction fee.

[CryptoPanda]

But what a way to start into the business right?

What worries me is that this was the most well VC funded company. Might send bad signals to investors.

[inBitweTrust]

But what a way to start into the business right?

Exactly. This is despicable behavior:

1) https://web.archive.org/web/20140723000048/http://help.xapo.com/
Shows that no page was shown in regards to additional fees as there was no link associated with question.

2) https://web.archive.org/web/20140708113128/http://help.xapo.com/categories/5988-Debit-Card/questions


How much does the Xapo Debit Card cost?

After paying a $15 fee to order the Xapo Debit Card, it is entirely free to use. The $15 fee covers the cost of the card, shipping, and other expenses.

 Does the Xapo Debit Card carry any additional fees?
No. After the initial $15 fee for the physical card and shipping, merchants will pay all fees just as they do for debit and card cards but there won’t be a fee for the customer.

WTF, are they thinking What is scary is they must be unaware of Internet cache which scares me even more.

[farlack]

So its the same thing as every single prepaid card in the world. Sounds like you're just bitching.


You want a company to spend millions and millions of dollars, and offer you a service free of charge? Well you've obviously never heard of a bank.

[inBitweTrust]

So its the same thing as every single prepaid card in the world. Sounds like you're just bitching.


You want a company to spend millions and millions of dollars, and offer you a service free of charge? Well you've obviously never heard of a bank.

All we are asking for is honesty in regards to fees. The Internet archive proves this is outright fraud and they could be legally liable if they charge and don't refund the 15 USD if they charge clients who signed up for something much different than advertised.

My guess is they are aware of this and are holding off for the waive of complaints before they start charging the 15USD originally agreed to.

[Xch4ng3]

So its the same thing as every single prepaid card in the world. Sounds like you're just bitching.


You want a company to spend millions and millions of dollars, and offer you a service free of charge? Well you've obviously never heard of a bank.

I think he's more annoyed with the fact that they promised no fees and then went against it without notifying people. I've seen those kinds of fees with many pre paid cards though so it's not uncommon so I'm pretty sure they're being charged by their card provider and it's just being passed on.

[farlack]

So its the same thing as every single prepaid card in the world. Sounds like you're just bitching.


You want a company to spend millions and millions of dollars, and offer you a service free of charge? Well you've obviously never heard of a bank.

All we are asking for is honesty in regards to fees. The Internet archive proves this is outright fraud and they could be legally liable if they charge and don't refund the 15 USD if they charge clients who signed up for something much different than advertised.

My guess is they are aware of this and are holding off for the waive of complaints before they start charging the 15USD originally agreed to.

It's more like they forgot to add the monthly fee page. There isn't anything stating there wont be a monthly fee. It says there is no fee to 'use' the card.. not to maintain the account.

[inBitweTrust]

So its the same thing as every single prepaid card in the world. Sounds like you're just bitching.


You want a company to spend millions and millions of dollars, and offer you a service free of charge? Well you've obviously never heard of a bank.

All we are asking for is honesty in regards to fees. The Internet archive proves this is outright fraud and they could be legally liable if they charge and don't refund the 15 USD if they charge clients who signed up for something much different than advertised.

My guess is they are aware of this and are holding off for the waive of complaints before they start charging the 15USD originally agreed to.

It's more like they forgot to add the monthly fee page. There isn't anything stating there wont be a monthly fee. It says there is no fee to 'use' the card.. not to maintain the account.

I'm going to assume you accidentally didn't read my post which proves otherwise rather than a paid shill:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708113128/http://help.xapo.com/categories/5988-Debit-Card/questions


How much does the Xapo Debit Card cost?

After paying a $15 fee to order the Xapo Debit Card, it is entirely free to use. The $15 fee covers the cost of the card, shipping, and other expenses.

 Does the Xapo Debit Card carry any additional fees?
No. After the initial $15 fee for the physical card and shipping, merchants will pay all fees just as they do for debit and card cards but there won’t be a fee for the customer.

[farlack]

So its the same thing as every single prepaid card in the world. Sounds like you're just bitching.


You want a company to spend millions and millions of dollars, and offer you a service free of charge? Well you've obviously never heard of a bank.

All we are asking for is honesty in regards to fees. The Internet archive proves this is outright fraud and they could be legally liable if they charge and don't refund the 15 USD if they charge clients who signed up for something much different than advertised.

My guess is they are aware of this and are holding off for the waive of complaints before they start charging the 15USD originally agreed to.

It's more like they forgot to add the monthly fee page. There isn't anything stating there wont be a monthly fee. It says there is no fee to 'use' the card.. not to maintain the account.

I'm going to assume you accidentally didn't read my post which proves otherwise rather than a paid shill:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708113128/http://help.xapo.com/categories/5988-Debit-Card/questions


How much does the Xapo Debit Card cost?

After paying a $15 fee to order the Xapo Debit Card, it is entirely free to use. The $15 fee covers the cost of the card, shipping, and other expenses.

 Does the Xapo Debit Card carry any additional fees?
No. After the initial $15 fee for the physical card and shipping, merchants will pay all fees just as they do for debit and card cards but there won’t be a fee for the customer.

Find the keyword. There is a keyword here called 'use'. Lets find the definition

1use
noun \ˈyüs\

: the act of using something

: the state of being used

: a way in which something is or can be used



=========================================

There is no fee to 'use' the card.
On the other hand there is a fee to maintain the account.


No. After the initial $15 fee for the physical card and shipping, merchants will pay all fees just as they do for debit and card cards but there won’t be a fee for the customer.

If I 'use' my card, there is no fee. The merchant pays the fee when I 'use' my card.

[trader001]

Can see some benefit if XAPO offer anonymous feature, that will negate the fee disadvantage.

[inBitweTrust]

Find the keyword. There is a keyword here called 'use'. Lets find the definition

1use
noun \ˈyüs\

: the act of using something

: the state of being used

: a way in which something is or can be used



=========================================

There is no fee to 'use' the card.
On the other hand there is a fee to maintain the account.


No. After the initial $15 fee for the physical card and shipping, merchants will pay all fees just as they do for debit and card cards but there won’t be a fee for the customer.

If I 'use' my card, there is no fee. The merchant pays the fee when I 'use' my card.

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? You are assuming their FAQ said this:

"Does the Xapo Debit Card carry any additional fees to use?"

instead it says this:


"Does the Xapo Debit Card carry any additional fees?"

[farlack]

That line is specifically talking about using the card with a merchant and you know it is

Whats this? A bitcoin technology company that is a new company who is bringing everything everyone wanted to the table? A mother fucking bitcoin debit card.. And the only thing mentioned is how much of a scumbag they are because they said there isn't a fee to 'use' the card, but forgot to mention the fee to maintain the account?

Burn them at the stake.

[inBitweTrust]

That line is specifically talking about using the card with a merchant and you know it is

Whats this? A bitcoin technology company that is a new company who is bringing everything everyone wanted to the table? A mother fucking bitcoin debit card.. And the only thing mentioned is how much of a scumbag they are because they said there isn't a fee to 'use' the card, but forgot to mention the fee to maintain the account?

Burn them at the stake.

No. You keep assuming they used the word "Use" which I clearly am proving otherwise. I didn't assume they meant just for use and didn't expect a monthly service charge. Why the hell would I expect a monthly service charge when they stated otherwise and many traditional banks don't even charge that for a debit card? I, along with many others, were mislead because we read and interpreted their words as they wrote them(and not how you are reading into them).

Additionally, their fee structure is worse than many banks overall.... I thought one of the advantages of Bitcoin and these fancy new "banks" was to reduce fees. If they were expecting no fees and than were forced to impose them due to outside pressures I can sympathize, but I see no explanation or press release explaining this despite searching all over. What they have done is slip the changes in at the same moment they began shipping the cards. That is unethical.

Where are your standards man?

[farlack]

That line is specifically talking about using the card with a merchant and you know it is

Whats this? A bitcoin technology company that is a new company who is bringing everything everyone wanted to the table? A mother fucking bitcoin debit card.. And the only thing mentioned is how much of a scumbag they are because they said there isn't a fee to 'use' the card, but forgot to mention the fee to maintain the account?

Burn them at the stake.

No. You keep assuming they used the word "Use" which I clearly am proving otherwise. I didn't assume they meant just for use and didn't expect a monthly service charge. Why the hell would I expect a monthly service charge when they stated otherwise and many traditional banks don't even charge that for a debit card? I, along with many others were mislead because we read and interpreted their words as they wrote them(and not how you are reading into them).

Traditional banks such as who? Just about ever bank charges you for a checking account.


The fact that the help pages clearly says the word 'use'




The fact is they forgot to mention the maintenance fee. No where is it stated that there isn't going to be one, nor that there will be one.
....


Show me where it says there wont be a maintenance fee.. It's only talking about a service fee when buying something from a merchant.

A bypass on both the company.. And the OP that didn't register using isn't the same thing as maintaining.

[inBitweTrust]

That line is specifically talking about using the card with a merchant and you know it is

Whats this? A bitcoin technology company that is a new company who is bringing everything everyone wanted to the table? A mother fucking bitcoin debit card.. And the only thing mentioned is how much of a scumbag they are because they said there isn't a fee to 'use' the card, but forgot to mention the fee to maintain the account?

Burn them at the stake.

No. You keep assuming they used the word "Use" which I clearly am proving otherwise. I didn't assume they meant just for use and didn't expect a monthly service charge. Why the hell would I expect a monthly service charge when they stated otherwise and many traditional banks don't even charge that for a debit card? I, along with many others were mislead because we read and interpreted their words as they wrote them(and not how you are reading into them).

Traditional banks such as who? Just about ever bank charges you for a checking account.


The fact that the help pages clearly says the word 'use'




The fact is they forgot to mention the maintenance fee. No where is it stated that there isn't going to be one, nor that there will be one.
....


Show me where it says there wont be a maintenance fee.. It's only talking about a service fee when buying something from a merchant.

A bypass on both the company.. And the OP that didn't register using isn't the same thing as maintaining.

Are you serious? You aren't only quote mining within the answers but quote mining between answers.
They said -
"Does the Xapo Debit Card carry any additional fees?"
The answer was no and further explained that merchants would take care of all fees outside the initial 15.

So are you suggesting all the "additional fees" they added just recently aren't technically "additional fees" as they originally said their would be none of?

Their are many banks and credit unions  that don't charge monthly maintenance fees. Xapo is a internet bank as well, it is uncommon for internet banks without tons of physical locations to have maintenance fees. Many internet banks have no monthly fees and even may pay interest on checking accounts.

a few examples amongst many - http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/pf/1110/gallery.best_banks_checking/

[farlack]

Really how many online banks have you had? I've had about 50-60 greendot cards. I was charged these same fees by Every. Single. One.
Please let me know how many you have had.


You're still failing to show me where it says there is no maintenance fee. It says there isn't a fee to use the card. I doesn't say anyone show me one, just a single line where is says there isn't a maintenance fee. It only states there isn't a fee to use the card. In the same fucking line.

[inBitweTrust]

Really how many online banks have you had? I've had about 50-60 greendot cards. I was charged these same fees by Every. Single. One.
Please let me know how many you have had.

greendots are prepaid cards you can get without ID  , and not what I'm talking about....

As far as internet banks with no monthly fees that I have personally have used in the past

x.com (bought by paypal later) - online bank - no monthly fees , and earned interest on checking
Currently use - paypal - - online bank-  no monthly fees
ally.com - - online bank -  no monthly fees, and earned interest on checking
citibank -  - online and physical bank- no monthly fees


I have also used many local credit unions (online and physical) in the past , none of which had monthly fees.

You're still failing to show me where it says there is no maintenance fee. It says there isn't a fee to use the card. I doesn't say anyone show me one, just a single line where is says there isn't a maintenance fee. It only states there isn't a fee to use the card. In the same fucking line.

"Does the Xapo Debit Card carry any additional fees?"
The answer was no and further explained that merchants would take care of all fees outside the initial 15.

Look if they worded the above question to say this:


"Does the Xapo Debit Card carry any additional fees when used?"

I would claim that they were being misleading but not blatantly dishonest, but they didn't. "Additional fees" in my definition means what it says it means"additional fees"... you have some warped sense of logic assuming that all the other "additional fees" they added at the last moment (remember we are also talking about new "usage fees" too which you fail to mention) categorically don't fall under the classification of "additional fees" and than justify your logic by quote mining between separate questions and extrapolating that to fit your definition.

[CryptoPanda]

farlack, u mad bro?!?!?!
Can you just admit you were wrong. Im amazed to what lengths you would go to defend your wrong point.
Are you a lawyer or something? Just have some dignity and admit that you didn't read inBitweTrust perfect explanation and just kept blablabing because you had nothing better to do or something.

[Elwar]

Meh, I'll still get it though hopefully competition will kill the monthly fee. A decent rise in the BTC price will make $5 a month seem like nothing.

I pay $150 per year for my Amex. I'll just drop that and use Xapo.

[inBitweTrust]

Meh, I'll still get it though hopefully competition will kill the monthly fee. A decent rise in the BTC price will make $5 a month seem like nothing.

I pay $150 per year for my Amex. I'll just drop that and use Xapo.

Part of me agrees with you and the other side thinks that these "bridges" are slowing the adoption of merchants accepting direct btc payments by propping up old payment methods. I would rather have BTC users ask a business if they accept BTC, encourage them to accept it, and than reward the merchants that accept BTC directly by shopping there.

[CryptoPanda]

Here it is for the too lazy to click and read ones

http://imgur.com/8iQdaiX

[BawsyBoss]

This is news to me. I was quite excited with the single $15 fee. I guess it was too good to be true. I don't plan to get these any time soon.

[BawsyBoss]

I just read their blog post about this. It seems like their partner is charging a monthlly fee but Xapo is goin to reimburse it to account holders.

[inBitweTrust]

I just read their blog post about this. It seems like their partner is charging a monthlly fee but Xapo is goin to reimburse it to account holders.

http://blog.xapo.com/post/93814554629/xapo-debit-card-fees-and-shipping-update

Yes, this is good .... but with their poor execution and roll-out of this they have lost my confidence in them as a company.

Seems like they were testing the waters to see if the community would roll over and accept the changes and than when users responded unkindly they back-peddled and are promising to credit the monthly fee until they can secure a better arrangement with a bank(which may or may not happen).

I thought it was a good backup to use and thus initially ordered one and placed some assets with them .... now I am going to focus my full attention on getting merchants to accept BTC directly instead of using bridges like these.

[CryptoPanda]

Yeah and they are not even shipping for free as stated previously. So, there are people that paid $15 and are now stuck with the fees?

[inBitweTrust]

Yeah and they are not even shipping for free as stated previously. So, there are people that paid $15 and are now stuck with the fees?

No, the plan all along was a onetime 15usd fee for shipping. It is sill unclear as to if they are just crediting the monthly fee or 100% of all fees with bitcoin on their new fee schedule. It shouldn't be unclear , but I no longer know if you should take their words literally or interpret them in unusual ways. This is a perfect example of what not to do with a product launch and really poor communication skills from a company. Reminds me of Mtgox.

[CryptoPanda]

yep, they are sloppy.
And people are supposed to trust them with their bitcoins?
I can't imagine what their super secure vault would be like.

So, dissapointing

[Furio]

So a normal anon debit card from Poland is just as good.....

[zetaray]

If you are not happy with the fees, tell them about it and terminate the card. If there enough complaints, they may revise the fees. Thanks for the heads up, but I don't think they care about threads like these.

[inBitweTrust]

If you are not happy with the fees, tell them about it and terminate the card. If there enough complaints, they may revise the fees. Thanks for the heads up, but I don't think they care about threads like these.

Whether or not they do care, these threads are not for them but to warn the people who signed up under false pretenses.

[CryptoPanda]

So a normal anon debit card from Poland is just as good.....

Yeah, I saw that thread, but looks like a short term thing that will soon be cut off.

[dadugan]

Is XAPO anon? or can I apply one for my dog ?

[Perlover]

I just tried to order card.
Before they only wants phone number. Ok, i approved it. After they wants only address. Ok, i filled it.
After they wants document number and other personal info. Here i stopped already.
With every step I give new information about me... And i don't know what they ask me in next step. Scans of utility bills, bank statements?

I don't want the Xapo card. It's bullshit...

P.S. And i don't see there "Detele account". So my email, address and phone leaked tp Xapo forever. Fine!

[Xch4ng3]

I just tried to order card.
Before they only wants phone number. Ok, i approved it. After they wants only address. Ok, i filled it.
After they wants document number and other personal info. Here i stopped already.
With every step I give new information about me... And i don't know what they ask me in next step. Scans of utility bills, bank statements?

I don't want the Xapo card. It's bullshit...

P.S. And i don't see there "Detele account". So my email, address and phone leaked tp Xapo forever. Fine!

Heaven forbid a company offering financial services and allowing the transmission of money to verify who their customers are. It's not like you can get into any sort of legal trouble.

[moni3z]

I've never seen a reloadable Visa/MC card that didn't have huge fees, actually those fees are pretty good. The standard is paying 1.5% on all withdraws using the card regardless if foreign exchange is involved. Anybody remember when all those Liberty Reserve cards were canceled by Visa with no notice tying up funds for months? I wouldn't trust any debit card. It'd be nice to click a button to convert coins and 5 mins later withdraw cash but far too many  middle men are involved at that point.

[Xch4ng3]

I've never seen a reloadable Visa/MC card that didn't have huge fees, actually those fees are pretty good. The standard is paying 1.5% on all withdraws using the card regardless if foreign exchange is involved. Anybody remember when all those Liberty Reserve cards were canceled by Visa with no notice tying up funds for months? I wouldn't trust any debit card. It'd be nice to click a button to convert coins and 5 mins later withdraw cash but far too many  middle men are involved at that point.

Then again LR was operating illegally while giving the interpenetration that they were a fully compliant company. One of the great things I loved about LR was that it was so easy to send funds to someone, as a seller of virtual items and services I didn't have to worry about fraud. Maybe that's why they had so much trouble with their Visa cards.

You also have to remember that Xapo is probably being charged a shit load for supplying the cards in the first place. It's not like you can walk up to a provider and say hey give me x cards and the gateways to manage them, it's a lot more complex then that. I'm not agreeing with what they did, they should have made customers aware that they're were going to be fees or at least handled the situation better when there was an outcry.

[moni3z]

I've never seen a reloadable Visa/MC card that didn't have huge fees, actually those fees are pretty good. The standard is paying 1.5% on all withdraws using the card regardless if foreign exchange is involved. Anybody remember when all those Liberty Reserve cards were canceled by Visa with no notice tying up funds for months? I wouldn't trust any debit card. It'd be nice to click a button to convert coins and 5 mins later withdraw cash but far too many  middle men are involved at that point.

Then again LR was operating illegally while giving the interpenetration that they were a fully compliant company. One of the great things I loved about LR was that it was so easy to send funds to someone, as a seller of virtual items and services I didn't have to worry about fraud. Maybe that's why they had so much trouble with their Visa cards.

You also have to remember that Xapo is probably being charged a shit load for supplying the cards in the first place. It's not like you can walk up to a provider and say hey give me x cards and the gateways to manage them, it's a lot more complex then that. I'm not agreeing with what they did, they should have made customers aware that they're were going to be fees or at least handled the situation better when there was an outcry.

Anybody can start their own card program if they have $100k and some sort of incorporated entity. Get a loyalbank corporate account, deposit $100k and start issuing your own reloadable cards the next day, set your own fees. Can also use ecoin.cc, dump your money to hold there, have customers directly apply to ecoin for their own cards (they use loyalbank cards) and you can fund them for free internally by just logging in and manually or batch transfering the funds. Turn-key debit card solution for exchangers. Those loyalbank cards have a much bigger withdraw limit too

[Xch4ng3]

I've never seen a reloadable Visa/MC card that didn't have huge fees, actually those fees are pretty good. The standard is paying 1.5% on all withdraws using the card regardless if foreign exchange is involved. Anybody remember when all those Liberty Reserve cards were canceled by Visa with no notice tying up funds for months? I wouldn't trust any debit card. It'd be nice to click a button to convert coins and 5 mins later withdraw cash but far too many  middle men are involved at that point.

Then again LR was operating illegally while giving the interpenetration that they were a fully compliant company. One of the great things I loved about LR was that it was so easy to send funds to someone, as a seller of virtual items and services I didn't have to worry about fraud. Maybe that's why they had so much trouble with their Visa cards.

You also have to remember that Xapo is probably being charged a shit load for supplying the cards in the first place. It's not like you can walk up to a provider and say hey give me x cards and the gateways to manage them, it's a lot more complex then that. I'm not agreeing with what they did, they should have made customers aware that they're were going to be fees or at least handled the situation better when there was an outcry.

Anybody can start their own card program if they have $100k and some sort of incorporated entity. Get a loyalbank corporate account, deposit $100k and start issuing your own reloadable cards the next day, set your own fees. Can also use ecoin.cc, dump your money to hold there, have customers directly apply to ecoin for their own cards (they use loyalbank cards) and you can fund them for free internally by just logging in and manually or batch transfering the funds. Turn-key debit card solution for exchangers. Those loyalbank cards have a much bigger withdraw limit too

$100k is still a lot for a company to invest in a program, they might have been early adopters of BTC which probably made it easier but still a lot of money.

Thanks for the info though, learn something new every day.

[moni3z]

I've never seen a reloadable Visa/MC card that didn't have huge fees, actually those fees are pretty good. The standard is paying 1.5% on all withdraws using the card regardless if foreign exchange is involved. Anybody remember when all those Liberty Reserve cards were canceled by Visa with no notice tying up funds for months? I wouldn't trust any debit card. It'd be nice to click a button to convert coins and 5 mins later withdraw cash but far too many  middle men are involved at that point.

Then again LR was operating illegally while giving the interpenetration that they were a fully compliant company. One of the great things I loved about LR was that it was so easy to send funds to someone, as a seller of virtual items and services I didn't have to worry about fraud. Maybe that's why they had so much trouble with their Visa cards.

You also have to remember that Xapo is probably being charged a shit load for supplying the cards in the first place. It's not like you can walk up to a provider and say hey give me x cards and the gateways to manage them, it's a lot more complex then that. I'm not agreeing with what they did, they should have made customers aware that they're were going to be fees or at least handled the situation better when there was an outcry.

Anybody can start their own card program if they have $100k and some sort of incorporated entity. Get a loyalbank corporate account, deposit $100k and start issuing your own reloadable cards the next day, set your own fees. Can also use ecoin.cc, dump your money to hold there, have customers directly apply to ecoin for their own cards (they use loyalbank cards) and you can fund them for free internally by just logging in and manually or batch transfering the funds. Turn-key debit card solution for exchangers. Those loyalbank cards have a much bigger withdraw limit too

$100k is still a lot for a company to invest in a program, they might have been early adopters of BTC which probably made it easier but still a lot of money.

Thanks for the info though, learn something new every day.

You just need $100k in Euros/USD to open the corporate account with Loyalbank, they don't keep the funds, I think min amount is $10k you have to keep in there before they start charging fees. It also may have changed to $50k min deposit to open a corporate account, not sure.

Use those funds to fill the cards with and collect fees in bitcoins when you exchange them I would avoid the US and just issue Euro cards, then don't need an army of lawyers to figure out US exchange laws.

[dadugan]

I've never seen a reloadable Visa/MC card that didn't have huge fees, actually those fees are pretty good. The standard is paying 1.5% on all withdraws using the card regardless if foreign exchange is involved. Anybody remember when all those Liberty Reserve cards were canceled by Visa with no notice tying up funds for months? I wouldn't trust any debit card. It'd be nice to click a button to convert coins and 5 mins later withdraw cash but far too many  middle men are involved at that point.

Then again LR was operating illegally while giving the interpenetration that they were a fully compliant company. One of the great things I loved about LR was that it was so easy to send funds to someone, as a seller of virtual items and services I didn't have to worry about fraud. Maybe that's why they had so much trouble with their Visa cards.

You also have to remember that Xapo is probably being charged a shit load for supplying the cards in the first place. It's not like you can walk up to a provider and say hey give me x cards and the gateways to manage them, it's a lot more complex then that. I'm not agreeing with what they did, they should have made customers aware that they're were going to be fees or at least handled the situation better when there was an outcry.

Anybody can start their own card program if they have $100k and some sort of incorporated entity. Get a loyalbank corporate account, deposit $100k and start issuing your own reloadable cards the next day, set your own fees. Can also use ecoin.cc, dump your money to hold there, have customers directly apply to ecoin for their own cards (they use loyalbank cards) and you can fund them for free internally by just logging in and manually or batch transfering the funds. Turn-key debit card solution for exchangers. Those loyalbank cards have a much bigger withdraw limit too

$100k is still a lot for a company to invest in a program, they might have been early adopters of BTC which probably made it easier but still a lot of money.

Thanks for the info though, learn something new every day.

You just need $100k in Euros/USD to open the corporate account with Loyalbank, they don't keep the funds, I think min amount is $10k you have to keep in there before they start charging fees. It also may have changed to $50k min deposit to open a corporate account, not sure.

Use those funds to fill the cards with and collect fees in bitcoins when you exchange them I would avoid the US and just issue Euro cards, then don't need an army of lawyers to figure out US exchange laws.

Sound like a good business model. Surprise there is only one company doing it. Must be missing something here.

[CryptoPanda]

I've never seen a reloadable Visa/MC card that didn't have huge fees, actually those fees are pretty good. The standard is paying 1.5% on all withdraws using the card regardless if foreign exchange is involved. Anybody remember when all those Liberty Reserve cards were canceled by Visa with no notice tying up funds for months? I wouldn't trust any debit card. It'd be nice to click a button to convert coins and 5 mins later withdraw cash but far too many  middle men are involved at that point.

Then again LR was operating illegally while giving the interpenetration that they were a fully compliant company. One of the great things I loved about LR was that it was so easy to send funds to someone, as a seller of virtual items and services I didn't have to worry about fraud. Maybe that's why they had so much trouble with their Visa cards.

You also have to remember that Xapo is probably being charged a shit load for supplying the cards in the first place. It's not like you can walk up to a provider and say hey give me x cards and the gateways to manage them, it's a lot more complex then that. I'm not agreeing with what they did, they should have made customers aware that they're were going to be fees or at least handled the situation better when there was an outcry.

Anybody can start their own card program if they have $100k and some sort of incorporated entity. Get a loyalbank corporate account, deposit $100k and start issuing your own reloadable cards the next day, set your own fees. Can also use ecoin.cc, dump your money to hold there, have customers directly apply to ecoin for their own cards (they use loyalbank cards) and you can fund them for free internally by just logging in and manually or batch transfering the funds. Turn-key debit card solution for exchangers. Those loyalbank cards have a much bigger withdraw limit too

$100k is still a lot for a company to invest in a program, they might have been early adopters of BTC which probably made it easier but still a lot of money.

Thanks for the info though, learn something new every day.

Dude, they got 40M Venture Capital. I think they can afford to put 100k in a bank account. lol