Dogecoin to enable AuxPoW from other Scrypt coins

[ubi4doges]

Dogecoin to enable AuxPoW soon, announced on r/dogecoin:

http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/2ci90m/dogecoin_to_enable_auxpow_soon_all_infos_inside/

This will enable the Dogecoin blockchain to accept auxiliary proof of work from other Scrypt chains (where LTC is the biggest one at the moment).

Thoughts on how this will affect dogecoin?

[fred930]

Doge wants LTC to participate in this, but what if LTC refuses? It would make doge look bad.

[ubi4doges]

Doge wants LTC to participate in this, but what if LTC refuses? It would make doge look bad.

From my understanding it's not up for LTC to decide anything. LTC doesn't have to do anything. It's just that miners that are mining the scrypt coin with the highest hashrate will be able to also mine dogecoins simultaneously. Currently the scrypt coin with the highest hashrate is LTC, but that can change at any time in the future. From the reddit thread:

What this does not mean is that we're tying us to Litecoin. What we do is accepting Proof of Work from their miners if they happen to hit our difficulty target.

[aa]

It's not a surprise at all that Dogecoin is going to enable merged mining. The developer knows that Dogecoin will get slaughtered (just like Feathercoin) if he doesn't implement it.

The best part is that he refuses to call it merged mining.

[fred930]

It's not a surprise at all that Dogecoin is going to enable merged mining. The developer knows that Dogecoin will get slaughtered (just like Feathercoin) if he doesn't implement it.

The best part is that he refuses to call it merged mining.

I was wondering what AuxPoW means. So AuxPoW = merged mining?

[aa]

It's not a surprise at all that Dogecoin is going to enable merged mining. The developer knows that Dogecoin will get slaughtered (just like Feathercoin) if he doesn't implement it.

The best part is that he refuses to call it merged mining.

I was wondering what AuxPoW means. So AuxPoW = merged mining?

Yes, that's exactly what it is.

[aa]

Also, I'm trying to find a way to implement merged mining payouts on P2Pool. Unfortunately, it looks like none of the current public repos have that feature.

[Shattered]

It's not a surprise at all that Dogecoin is going to enable merged mining. The developer knows that Dogecoin will get slaughtered (just like Feathercoin) if he doesn't implement it.

The best part is that he refuses to call it merged mining.

I agree with you. You cant really blame him for not wanting to use that specific term tho.
Tap dancing around certain verbiage seems par for course.

Im actually surprised it took this long...

[ubi4doges]

It's not a surprise at all that Dogecoin is going to enable merged mining. The developer knows that Dogecoin will get slaughtered (just like Feathercoin) if he doesn't implement it.

The best part is that he refuses to call it merged mining.

I was wondering what AuxPoW means. So AuxPoW = merged mining?

I think merged mining would mean dogecoin miners would also be forced to mine litecoins. AuxPoW on the other hand would allow dogecoin miners to still mine at their current pools directly to the Dogecoin network.

[aa]

It's not a surprise at all that Dogecoin is going to enable merged mining. The developer knows that Dogecoin will get slaughtered (just like Feathercoin) if he doesn't implement it.

The best part is that he refuses to call it merged mining.

I was wondering what AuxPoW means. So AuxPoW = merged mining?

I think merged mining would mean dogecoin miners would also be forced to mine litecoins. AuxPoW on the other hand would allow dogecoin miners to still mine at their current pools directly to the Dogecoin network.

That's wrong.

[ubi4doges]

That's wrong.

No it isn't. And if you think it is, explain why. Both Dogecoin and Litecoin people seem to understand the concept that AuxPoW =/= Merged Mining

[Kluge]

That's wrong.

No it isn't. And if you think it is, explain why. Both Dogecoin and Litecoin people seem to understand the concept that AuxPoW =/= Merged Mining

Merged mining doesn't require anyone to mine anything else, but allows them the option to. It's always up to individual pools, which is why not every bitcoin pool allows merged mining of coins like NMC like they used to when it was valuable. However, you could always mine NMC directly without mining anything else -- it'd be stupid, though. Whether or not it's worthwhile for a pool to permit NMC/similar merged mining, though, is debatable since the value added is so minimal and may be outweighed by the resource requirements of developing the code and using server resources. When these merged SHA256 coins had significant value, pools would usually permit auto-sale of the coins which exchanged to the coin they were mining, so if you were mining BTC, you'd get your normal BTC reward plus a BTC bonus equal to the amount of LTC you earned which was exchanged by the pool. Assuming there is little overlap between DOGE and LTC users, LTC miners on DOGE-merged-enabled LTC pools would probably just have their "bonus DOGE" automatically converted (this can be compensated for by having LTC also offer merged mining if they choose to accept) -- if there's a lot of overlap, people will likely hold both coins and there'd be little effect on price. By DOGE devs saying they don't think there'll be much impact on DOGE price, they're saying a lot of DOGE miners are currently dumping onto the market for fiat or a different coin already or that there's a high amount of crossover between LTC & DOGE users (so they'll hold both).

OTOH, if you could mine LTC and earn DOGE at the same time - that'd be a fantastic option for miners, and make both networks significantly stronger since it'd be more profitable to mine LTC+DOGE rather than any one coin individually (ATM). DOGE wants LTC to implement merged mining, too, because then someone can be on a DOGE pool and still earn LTC, which in turn makes it equally as profitable to "mine DOGE" as it does to mine LTC. Technically, it's a great idea, but I can't imagine the economic incentive for it.

"AuxPoW" sounds like marketing voodoo. What basically happens is that hashes can be used for both chains (rather, DOGE will accept hashes from other networks' chains), and if the hash exceeds the difficulty target for DOGE and you're mining on a DOGE-merged enabled LTC pool, when you solve a block, you'll probably solve a block for both LTC and DOGE (or just DOGE if LTC requires a higher hash at the time, or just LTC if DOGE requires a higher hash at the time). -So it's the same as merged mining from what I read, but DOGE wants other coins to offer merged mining of their coin, too (which I'm not sure if has ever happened before). If you could merged-mine virtually all the Scrypt coins at once, they'd be extremely powerful since they combine their hashrate. Given pools will likely implement automatic selling of coins the miner doesn't want (and many pools, especially auto-switching pools, just sell all of them for BTC), it probably won't have any positive impact on price unless people feel the network isn't strong enough for its price as-is and that's what's causing sell pressure.

AuxPoW implemented by both LTC and DOGE should make both networks' hashrate roughly equal to each other as well as each equaling the hashrate of both of them separately, now (plus much more when implemented, since anyone mining Scrypt will probably want to mine LTC+DOGE over other options). The technical downside of this is that it'll likely dramatically lower hashrate of other Scrypt coins if the price of LTC and DOGE doesn't drop significantly from this.

[ubi4doges]

That's wrong.

No it isn't. And if you think it is, explain why. Both Dogecoin and Litecoin people seem to understand the concept that AuxPoW =/= Merged Mining

Merged mining doesn't require anyone to mine anything else, but allows them the option to. It's always up to individual pools, which is why not every bitcoin pool allows merged mining of coins like NMC like they used to when it was valuable. However, you could always mine NMC directly without mining anything else -- it'd be stupid, though. Whether or not it's worthwhile for a pool to permit NMC/similar merged mining, though, is debatable since the value added is so minimal and may be outweighed by the resource requirements of developing the code and using server resources. When these merged SHA256 coins had significant value, pools would usually permit auto-sale of the coins which exchanged to the coin they were mining, so if you were mining BTC, you'd get your normal BTC reward plus a BTC bonus equal to the amount of LTC you earned which was exchanged by the pool. Assuming there is little overlap between DOGE and LTC users, LTC miners on DOGE-merged-enabled LTC pools would probably just have their "bonus DOGE" automatically converted (this can be compensated for by having LTC also offer merged mining if they choose to accept) -- if there's a lot of overlap, people will likely hold both coins and there'd be little effect on price. By DOGE devs saying they don't think there'll be much impact on DOGE price, they're saying a lot of DOGE miners are currently dumping onto the market for fiat or a different coin already or that there's a high amount of crossover between LTC & DOGE users (so they'll hold both).

OTOH, if you could mine LTC and earn DOGE at the same time - that'd be a fantastic option for miners, and make both networks significantly stronger since it'd be more profitable to mine LTC+DOGE rather than any one coin individually (ATM). DOGE wants LTC to implement merged mining, too, because then someone can be on a DOGE pool and still earn LTC, which in turn makes it equally as profitable to "mine DOGE" as it does to mine LTC. Technically, it's a great idea, but I can't imagine the economic incentive for it.

"AuxPoW" sounds like marketing voodoo. What basically happens is that hashes can be used for both chains (rather, DOGE will accept hashes from other networks' chains), and if the hash exceeds the difficulty target for DOGE and you're mining on a DOGE-merged enabled LTC pool, when you solve a block, you'll probably solve a block for both LTC and DOGE (or just DOGE if LTC requires a higher hash at the time, or just LTC if DOGE requires a higher hash at the time). -So it's the same as merged mining from what I read, but DOGE wants other coins to offer merged mining of their coin, too (which I'm not sure if has ever happened before). If you could merged-mine virtually all the Scrypt coins at once, they'd be extremely powerful since they combine their hashrate. Given pools will likely implement automatic selling of coins the miner doesn't want (and many pools, especially auto-switching pools, just sell all of them for BTC), it probably won't have any positive impact on price unless people feel the network isn't strong enough for its price as-is and that's what's causing sell pressure.

AuxPoW implemented by both LTC and DOGE should make both networks' hashrate roughly equal to each other as well as each equaling the hashrate of both of them separately, now (plus much more when implemented, since anyone mining Scrypt will probably want to mine LTC+DOGE over other options). The technical downside of this is that it'll likely dramatically lower hashrate of other Scrypt coins if the price of LTC and DOGE doesn't drop significantly from this.

Thank you for the detailed explanation!

[aa]

That's still wrong. Auxiliary PoW is the protocol that is used for merged mining.

Dogecoin is enabling merged mining.

Contact your Dogecoin devs and ask them why they are actively talking about merged mining but refusing to call it what it is.

They are purposely treating you like a moron so that you'll be confused and then go around and post about "AuxPoW isn't merged mining lol!!!111" Unfortunately, it just makes you look like a moron to everyone else.

It would have taken you about three seconds to go to Google and search "merged mining," then click on the second or third result for the Bitcoin wiki and read up on the topic. The first four or five paragraphs are very simple to understand.