bitcoin changing my ideology from socialism to libertarianism! What about you?

[Beliathon]

Where do you draw the line?

I let compassion guide my ethics, rather than selfishness and isolation. You should too.

But who decides when compassion should be felt for another human being?

Homo Sapiens are neuro-biologically wired to empathize with one another. Even infants, upon hearing the cries of another baby, will themselves cry. Compassion should always be felt.

Only our sick and violent culture has taught us to numb compassion and replace it with myopic self-interest and greed. This indoctrination process begins in the classroom, there is a reason that nation-states - just like the church - want our children during their formative years.

The epitome of this numbness - this delusion of separateness - can be witnessed on the field of battle, where men kill one another for the profit of other men (read: corporate war-profiteers and their puppet politicians), who are glaringly absent from the battlefield themselves in modern warfare.

At least in medieval warfare, some of the Lords had the decency to risk their own skin in battle. I spit on every worthless coward politician who orders an attack but is not themselves in the fight.

Yours in compassion and solidarity,

World Citizen Beliathon




P.S.

http://tinyurl.com/EconomicFundamentalism

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[forevernoob]

Homo Sapiens are neuro-biologically wired to empathize with one another. Even infants, upon hearing the cries of another baby, will themselves cry. Compassion should always be felt.

Only our sick and violent culture has taught us to numb compassion and replace it with myopic self-interest and greed. This indoctrination process begins in the classroom, there is a reason that nation-states - just like the church - want our children during their formative years.

The epitome of this numbness - this delusion of separateness - can be witnessed on the field of battle, where men kill one another for the profit of other men (read: corporate war-profiteers and their puppet politicians), who are glaringly absent from the battlefield themselves in modern warfare.

At least in medieval warfare, some of the Lords had the decency to risk their own skin in battle. I spit on every worthless coward politician who orders an attack but is not themselves in the fight.

Yours in compassion and solidarity,

World Citizen Beliathon

That's all very nice but you didn't answer my question. I believe humans are different. What compassion is to you might be different to me.
I feel compassion for people that cannot get enough food for the day. But don't really feel much compassion for people that collect welfare without putting in any work.

[Beliathon]

But don't really feel much compassion for people that collect welfare without putting in any work.

The difference is you believe human beings should be required to sell their labor for a wage to survive, I don't. I think survival (and education) is a birthright, and we should work only to gain access to our various luxuries.

You believe human beings should be allowed to starve and die of exposure every winter (and in capitalism they DO, by the millions), I don't. I think we all have a right to exist.  

Your nation-state indoctrination* has replaced your in-born compassion with horrific and logically unsound social darwinism.

*read - brainwashing

[jbreher]

I think survival (and education) is a birthright, and we should work only to gain access to our various luxuries.

Unh hunh. And where, pray tell, is all the free food and shelter going to come from?

[Beliathon]

I think survival (and education) is a birthright, and we should work only to gain access to our various luxuries.

Unh hunh. And where, pray tell, is all the free food and shelter going to come from?

Once capitalism is abolished, we'll have access to twice as much food as we won't be wasting 55% of all food produced globally for the sake of maximizing profits.

[jbreher]

I think survival (and education) is a birthright, and we should work only to gain access to our various luxuries.

Unh hunh. And where, pray tell, is all the free food and shelter going to come from?

Once capitalism is abolished, we'll have access to twice as much food as we won't be wasting 55% of all food produced globally for the sake of maximizing profits.

When you remove the incentive to produce the food, I rather expect nobody will bother. Nor produce any of the millions of other things upon which modern food production requires.

Perhaps you should, as suggested, test this hypothesis with a set limited to something less than the entire globe.

[forevernoob]

But don't really feel much compassion for people that collect welfare without putting in any work.

The difference is you believe human beings should be required to sell their labor for a wage to survive, I don't. I think survival (and education) is a birthright, and we should work only to gain access to our various luxuries.

You believe human beings should be allowed to starve and die of exposure every winter (and in capitalism they DO, by the millions), I don't. I think we all have a right to exist.  

Your nation-state indoctrination* has replaced your in-born compassion with horrific and logically unsound social darwinism.

*read - brainwashing

Ending the welfare state doesn't mean you want people to starve to death. I just told you I felt compassion for people without food.
What you are describing sounds an awful lot like socialism to me. How are you going to accomplish all this without central planning?

[Beliathon]

When you remove the incentive to produce the food (...)

Right, because nobody produced food before capitalism. Hunger has never been a particularly powerful incentive for humans.  

What you are describing sounds an awful lot like socialism to me.

RUH ROH, the SOCIALISM buzzword has set off the alarm bells in your mind. RED ALERT! ALL CREWS TO BATTLESTATIONS! Cut the power to critical thinking, quick! WE GOT OURSELVES A SOCIALIST, ANNIE GET YER GUN. For fuck's sake, your brainwashing will cause me a migraine...

Yes, I am a social-anarchist / anarcho-socialist / libertarian socialist. It should sound like socialism. Socialism is compassion, in stark contrast to the ruthless and violent barbarism of capitalism.

How are you going to accomplish all this without central planning?

Decentralized planning. Local planning. Those affected by the decisions should be the ones making the decisions.

The fate of factory workers should not be decided by some foreign banksters or some far-off out of touch board of directors. The fate of soldiers should not be determined by some far-off politician, safe in his luxurious mansion.

[jbreher]

When you remove the incentive to produce the food (...)

Right, because nobody produced food before capitalism. Hunger has never been a particularly powerful incentive for humans.  
[/quote]

Nice quote redaction. Tell me how hunger will be motivation for the crew that will build the assembly robots that produce the graders that clear the land for the factory that will build the thrashing machines that will sow the grain.

[Beliathon]

Nice quote redaction. Tell me how hunger will be motivation for the crew that will build the assembly robots that produce the graders that clear the land for the factory that will build the thrashing machines that will sow the grain.

We already have robots building robots that build cars TODAY. Inside a decade or two the robotics industry will explode, by the way displacing millions more human employees (say goodbye to every job involving driving a vehicle, that's millions in the USA alone).

Perhaps you have heard google is buying up robotics firms like crazy - guess why that is?

With or without the advent of socialism, capitalism is doomed. The question is not whether capitalism will survive - it won't - it can't survive the coming mass-automation of low-level jobs. The only question is, what system will be build to replace capitalism? I'm hoping for something much more compassionate...

related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYIfeZcXA9U

[BowieMan]

yeah ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing from

being  pro socialism to pro libertarianism...

I now feel happy and liberated when I think about the pleasures of personal wealth..

are you having such changes?

I actually think it is an interesting experiment. And even if it is rather tailored to liberal people, it may be used in a variety of ways. I don't subscribe to the basic idea of liberalism, without any exceptions. I think there are things that are better regulated or put under certain controls, in order for the general public to benefit!

[forevernoob]

What you are describing sounds an awful lot like socialism to me.

RUH ROH, the SOCIALISM buzzword has set off the alarm bells in your mind. RED ALERT! ALL CREWS TO BATTLESTATIONS! Cut the power to critical thinking, quick! WE GOT OURSELVES A SOCIALIST, ANNIE GET YER GUN. For fuck's sake, your brainwashing will cause me a migraine...

Yes, I am a social-anarchist / anarcho-socialist / libertarian socialist. It should sound like socialism. Socialism is compassion, in stark contrast to the ruthless and violent barbarism of capitalism.

How are you going to accomplish all this without central planning?

Decentralized planning. Local planning. Those affected by the decisions should be the ones making the decisions.

The fate of factory workers should not be decided by some foreign banksters or some far-off out of touch board of directors. The fate of soldiers should not be determined by some far-off politician, safe in his luxurious mansion.

Beliathon, if you could get off your high horse just for one second....
It's funny how you make it sound like I used a bad word when I mentioned "socialism". I never implied it was a bad thing. It was you who implied I somehow mocked you for being a socialist.
I merely was interested in the difference between socialism and anarcho-socialism.

And quite frankly I still don't understand what your philosophy has to do with anarchy. I mean your local planing is just another way to control people.
The decisions will be taken by the majority, they will overrule the minority. Therefore oppressing the minority. That's not anarchy.

[jbreher]

Nice quote redaction. Tell me how hunger will be motivation for the crew that will build the assembly robots that produce the graders that clear the land for the factory that will build the thrashing machines that will sow the grain.

We already have robots building robots that build cars TODAY.

...aaaand another fine dodge. What is the motivation for the programmers that created the Firmware for these robots? At this point, there are humans involved in the development of every product. The fact that some robots can assemble some other robots -- as programmed by humans -- is irrelevant to the point. Without the toil of humans, all meaningful food production would cease. The earth cannot feed 7 billion without mechanization.

Again, if all their needs are there for the taking, what motivates these producers?

[Georgebest]

yes bitcoin always change my mind . im now love betting . always like gambling . my life going crazy but fun .

[Beliathon]

Beliathon, if you could get off your high horse just for one second....

NEVAR!! My high horse's name is reason, and it is high on compassion. I will not come down for you nor anyone.

[cuddaloreappu]

I think survival (and education) is a birthright, and we should work only to gain access to our various luxuries.

Unh hunh. And where, pray tell, is all the free food and shelter going to come from?

Once capitalism is abolished, we'll have access to twice as much food as we won't be wasting 55% of all food produced globally for the sake of maximizing profits.

Some say capitalism is good when it is 100% free market legit..but all the trouble with capitalism, in the world that we see today are all due to crony capitalism.

is capitalism by itself causing this 55% food wastage or is crony capitalism causing food wastage?

[fussel-fuel-four]

bitcoins is turning to a style of life now, another stage for btc.

[forevernoob]

I think survival (and education) is a birthright, and we should work only to gain access to our various luxuries.

Unh hunh. And where, pray tell, is all the free food and shelter going to come from?

Once capitalism is abolished, we'll have access to twice as much food as we won't be wasting 55% of all food produced globally for the sake of maximizing profits.

Some say capitalism is good when it is 100% free market legit..but all the trouble with capitalism, in the world that we see today are all due to crony capitalism.

is capitalism by itself causing this 55% food wastage or is crony capitalism causing food wastage?

All the criticism of capitalism from Beliathons side are examples of crony capitalism.
I wonder how he would react if I would mix up "soviet socialism" and "socialism"?

[jonald_fyookball]

I think survival (and education) is a birthright, and we should work only to gain access to our various luxuries.

Unh hunh. And where, pray tell, is all the free food and shelter going to come from?

Once capitalism is abolished, we'll have access to twice as much food as we won't be wasting 55% of all food produced globally for the sake of maximizing profits.

Some say capitalism is good when it is 100% free market legit..but all the trouble with capitalism, in the world that we see today are all due to crony capitalism.

is capitalism by itself causing this 55% food wastage or is crony capitalism causing food wastage?

All the criticism of capitalism from Beliathons side are examples of crony capitalism.
I wonder how he would react if I would mix up "soviet socialism" and "socialism"?

exactly.  true laissez faire capitalism holds many of the same principles and ideals as what he wants but we all sometimes get too stuck on labels.

[Wilikon]

yeah ever since I got involved with bitcoins... my ideology is slowly changing from

being  pro socialism to pro libertarianism...

I now feel happy and liberated when I think about the pleasures of personal wealth..

are you having such changes?

That's great news. Although happy of the change, the true metamorphosis will be something that no economists have defined yet. If the bitcoin experiment is a success then even concept like libertarianism will stop to make sense. It's like 3D printing. Now it is mostly useless plastic stuff. Once we will be printing out a fully functional iphone 15 at home from our Mr Coffee + 3D Ultra then what would it be? A new paradigm.

You are on the right path.