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mylo91
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August 04, 2014, 04:05:59 PM
 #1

Hello everybody,

I am a new user, but I have collected some informations about the bitcoin and the mining.
First of all I would like to start mining using some savings I have.
All advices will be taken into account.
I would like to start with 3 terahash and especially using the devices from this site    https://products.butterflylabs.com/
So I would like to know what is needed. Do I need to buy the asic and need a case where to install it? I saw the imperial monarch can be plugged via usb. is it true? and it's also quite powerful, I think. 1 TH/s is pretty good, don't you think?
Second, I have read that more or less the difficulty increases every two weeks with an approximate rate of +30%. So if I have 3 TH/s, the electric power costs me about 0,06 € and I need an initial investment of about 6000 € for the asic what would by my ROI and more particularly how much time would I need to wait with those assumptions? (let's also say that the bitcoin is kept at 440 euros all the time as a costant). And what about 4 TH/s with an invstment of 8000 €?
I forgot to mention the power. 1 TH/s needs 650 watt. (price for electric power again is 0,06 €).

Thank you very much.

P.S. Not interested in comments like "don't do it" and it's impossible to say since I said to keep constant the value of the bitcoin and that the rise in difficulty would be about 30% every 2 weeks.

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jonnybravo0311
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August 04, 2014, 04:40:18 PM
 #2

Hello everybody,

I am a new user, but I have collected some informations about the bitcoin and the mining.
First of all I would like to start mining using some savings I have.
All advices will be taken into account.
I would like to start with 3 terahash and especially using the devices from this site    https://products.butterflylabs.com/
So I would like to know what is needed. Do I need to buy the asic and need a case where to install it? I saw the imperial monarch can be plugged via usb. is it true? and it's also quite powerful, I think. 1 TH/s is pretty good, don't you think?
Second, I have read that more or less the difficulty increases every two weeks with an approximate rate of +30%. So if I have 3 TH/s, the electric power costs me about 0,06 € and I need an initial investment of about 6000 € for the asic what would by my ROI and more particularly how much time would I need to wait with those assumptions? (let's also say that the bitcoin is kept at 440 euros all the time as a costant). And what about 4 TH/s with an invstment of 8000 €?
I forgot to mention the power. 1 TH/s needs 650 watt. (price for electric power again is 0,06 €).

Thank you very much.

P.S. Not interested in comments like "don't do it" and it's impossible to say since I said to keep constant the value of the bitcoin and that the rise in difficulty would be about 30% every 2 weeks.


I won't tell you not to do it, but, I will tell you to stay away from BFL.  Look at all of the threads out there about the woes people are suffering with that company.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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August 04, 2014, 04:51:36 PM
 #3

I won't say stay away from BFL, but I would recommend only ordering equipment that is shipping.  You don't want to wait months or years to get your equipment.

Also make sure your aware of the power, heat and noise requirements and/or expenditures and that you can deal with them.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
jonnybravo0311
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August 04, 2014, 05:52:55 PM
 #4

I won't say stay away from BFL, but I would recommend only ordering equipment that is shipping.  You don't want to wait months or years to get your equipment.

Also make sure your aware of the power, heat and noise requirements and/or expenditures and that you can deal with them.
Does BFL actually have shipping gear at this point?  According to their website, the only gear they're shipping is used.  I've never ordered from them and every post I've read has stated their boards don't meet rated specs and aren't shipping out, only being cloud hosted.  Or, are you just making a general statement to avoid pre-orders?

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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August 04, 2014, 06:09:27 PM
 #5

I won't say stay away from BFL, but I would recommend only ordering equipment that is shipping.  You don't want to wait months or years to get your equipment.

Also make sure your aware of the power, heat and noise requirements and/or expenditures and that you can deal with them.
Does BFL actually have shipping gear at this point?  According to their website, the only gear they're shipping is used.  I've never ordered from them and every post I've read has stated their boards don't meet rated specs and aren't shipping out, only being cloud hosted.  Or, are you just making a general statement to avoid pre-orders?

Avoid pre-orders in general. On top of that, BFL is known to have an especially catastrophic track record.
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August 04, 2014, 06:15:36 PM
 #6

I won't say stay away from BFL, but I would recommend only ordering equipment that is shipping.  You don't want to wait months or years to get your equipment.

Also make sure your aware of the power, heat and noise requirements and/or expenditures and that you can deal with them.
Does BFL actually have shipping gear at this point?  According to their website, the only gear they're shipping is used.  I've never ordered from them and every post I've read has stated their boards don't meet rated specs and aren't shipping out, only being cloud hosted.  Or, are you just making a general statement to avoid pre-orders?

Avoid pre-orders in general. On top of that, BFL is known to have an especially catastrophic track record.
I'm aware of this.  I was curious as to why os2sam made his statement of "I won't say stay away from BFL...".  The only "pre-order" I ever participated in was batch 1 Antminer S3s.  All of my equipment is bought from in-stock inventory.

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os2sam
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August 04, 2014, 06:38:01 PM
 #7

Does BFL actually have shipping gear at this point?

I have no idea.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
os2sam
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August 04, 2014, 06:43:36 PM
 #8

I was curious as to why os2sam made his statement of "I won't say stay away from BFL..."

Because I have no idea if they are shipping a current product or not.  I don't think it's wise, in general, to pre-order an ASIC miner that isn't currently available in today's mining environment.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
jonnybravo0311
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August 04, 2014, 09:28:11 PM
 #9

I was curious as to why os2sam made his statement of "I won't say stay away from BFL..."

Because I have no idea if they are shipping a current product or not.  I don't think it's wise, in general, to pre-order an ASIC miner that isn't currently available in today's mining environment.
I absolutely agree about the pre-order statement.  As far as I know, and from all accounts here on the forums, and even by looking at BFL's website, they are currently NOT shipping any new product.  Their site has only used last-gen gear for sale.  That's why I was curious about your reply.  I was wondering if you knew something the majority of the rest of us did not about BFL. Smiley

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August 05, 2014, 12:00:08 AM
 #10

My advice would be for you to look for another hardware provider other than BFL, then re-work your financial figures.  You need more than 6TH/s to make $100 a day at this point anyway, so consider buying more hashing power.
mylo91
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August 05, 2014, 09:22:05 PM
 #11

Alright then I'll change the harware. Let's say the Antiminer S3 which costs around 300 euros with the actual value ot the BTC (0.68 btc=294.77 eur)
So again let's say I have a budget of about 8000 € which means I could buy around 26 antiminers which would give me about 11.4 TH/s and a consumption of about 8840 watt. What would you reply with this hardware and consumption using the antiminer. What would be the answer to the original questions? Thank you for the replies!! Smiley Oh one more thing. the antiminer is only bought with BTC so I was thinking about buying the required BTCs with the euros which is now traded for 433.7 €.
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August 05, 2014, 09:46:54 PM
 #12

Alright then I'll change the harware. Let's say the Antiminer S3 which costs around 300 euros with the actual value ot the BTC (0.68 btc=294.77 eur)
So again let's say I have a budget of about 8000 € which means I could buy around 26 antiminers which would give me about 11.4 TH/s and a consumption of about 8840 watt. What would you reply with this hardware and consumption using the antiminer. What would be the answer to the original questions? Thank you for the replies!! Smiley Oh one more thing. the antiminer is only bought with BTC so I was thinking about buying the required BTCs with the euros which is now traded for 433.7 €.

A few things to keep in mind...
1) Don't forget power supplies, you're going to need to buy power supplies to power these units. I run every 4 antminer S3's on a single EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 G2.
2) Networking and other infrastructure. Network cables, power cables, power distribution strips, and a network switch.

For that kind of volume, try contacting bitmain before you order. If you're in a hurry, order a few and wait for the coupon's to get added to your account then apply the coupon for additional discounts.

Back of the napkin math, you're going to make 0.3 BTC per day, so you're looking at an ROI around 80-90 days (roughly).
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August 06, 2014, 02:46:26 AM
 #13

Alright then I'll change the harware. Let's say the Antiminer S3 which costs around 300 euros with the actual value ot the BTC (0.68 btc=294.77 eur)
So again let's say I have a budget of about 8000 € which means I could buy around 26 antiminers which would give me about 11.4 TH/s and a consumption of about 8840 watt. What would you reply with this hardware and consumption using the antiminer. What would be the answer to the original questions? Thank you for the replies!! Smiley Oh one more thing. the antiminer is only bought with BTC so I was thinking about buying the required BTCs with the euros which is now traded for 433.7 €.

A few things to keep in mind...
1) Don't forget power supplies, you're going to need to buy power supplies to power these units. I run every 4 antminer S3's on a single EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 G2.
2) Networking and other infrastructure. Network cables, power cables, power distribution strips, and a network switch.

For that kind of volume, try contacting bitmain before you order. If you're in a hurry, order a few and wait for the coupon's to get added to your account then apply the coupon for additional discounts.

Back of the napkin math, you're going to make 0.3 BTC per day, so you're looking at an ROI around 80-90 days (roughly).


Doesn't the difficulty go up sooner than 80-90 days?  I always figured it was really hard to figure out ROI for the future without factoring in difficulty increases.
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August 06, 2014, 04:49:31 AM
 #14

Alright then I'll change the harware. Let's say the Antiminer S3 which costs around 300 euros with the actual value ot the BTC (0.68 btc=294.77 eur)
So again let's say I have a budget of about 8000 € which means I could buy around 26 antiminers which would give me about 11.4 TH/s and a consumption of about 8840 watt. What would you reply with this hardware and consumption using the antiminer. What would be the answer to the original questions? Thank you for the replies!! Smiley Oh one more thing. the antiminer is only bought with BTC so I was thinking about buying the required BTCs with the euros which is now traded for 433.7 €.

A few things to keep in mind...
1) Don't forget power supplies, you're going to need to buy power supplies to power these units. I run every 4 antminer S3's on a single EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 G2.
2) Networking and other infrastructure. Network cables, power cables, power distribution strips, and a network switch.

For that kind of volume, try contacting bitmain before you order. If you're in a hurry, order a few and wait for the coupon's to get added to your account then apply the coupon for additional discounts.

Back of the napkin math, you're going to make 0.3 BTC per day, so you're looking at an ROI around 80-90 days (roughly).


Doesn't the difficulty go up sooner than 80-90 days?  I always figured it was really hard to figure out ROI for the future without factoring in difficulty increases.

Difficulty goes up or down after a set number of blocks, not days - it happens to be 2016.  If the network is growing then the 2016 gets processed faster and instead of taking 14 days it takes less, lately about every 11-12 days.

What he was saying is even with the adjustments figured in you would earn you money back in 80-90 days with those assumptions.  The problem with mining is you have to make assumptions.  If the machine fails and needs an RMA, if the miner gets delivered late, if the difficulty goes up slower or faster those all alter the outcome.

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August 06, 2014, 10:28:34 AM
 #15

Thank you all for your replies. You all have given me usefull informations!!
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August 06, 2014, 12:00:12 PM
 #16

Thank you all for your replies. You all have given me usefull informations!!

Just buy 7 AntMiner S3 units from Bitmaintech.com. 7 x 440 = 3080 GH or 3.08 TH

http://Bitmaintech.com

Please read the info in the S3 support thread here on this forum so you know what power supplies you will need.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=671189.0;topicseen

Hope this helps.  Cool
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