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Author Topic: Anonymity  (Read 4570 times)
MajidBC
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August 06, 2014, 06:42:11 AM
 #21

If your asking in a present tense then I'd say a cryptonote coin like Monero.  I'm a believer That coins like XC, DRK and others have real potential.  That shouldn't be ignored and are worth taking the time to look into.

Monero seems nice. Is it possible for you to explain anonymity idea of XC in one paragraph? The original explanations are usually long.

By the way, nice profile picture! Are you smelling weed?
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August 06, 2014, 06:50:01 AM
 #22

One of the bitcointalk ads says:
"Even if you use Bitcoin through Tor, the way transactions are handled by the network makes anonymity difficult to achieve. Do not expect your transactions to be anonymous unless you really know what you're doing."

In your opinion, which coin really has anonymous transaction? Is total anonymity possible at all?

I research this question for some time. There are a lot of peoples under each post who trying to promote their one RealAnonCoin but what i get

Bitcoin mixer and shared transaction services - it looks like real way only if you trust the service.
https://bitmixer.io/index.html - one of them

Darkcoin - Masternode technology. popular, interesting and expensive if i get the ino right(10% for darksend)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=724083.0 look here - there are a lot info and links about darkcoin technology

Bytecoin/Monero - cryptonight. ring signatures. if you want to look at this kind of coins - just read about Cryptonight and ringsignatures, not about concrete coin.

There are a lot of "truly anonymous"  coins with Guy Fawkes but they look unserious for me.

Thanks for the response. I just read about Bitcoin mixer. It's an easy idea, but I guess its implementation is complicated. How much is the fee for it?

Darkcoin is way too expensive, as you mentioned.

Monero seems interesting to me.

Do you think governments will forbid anonymous transactions? For example, by forcing exchanges not to accept them.

If governments force Exchanges in their country to not accept Darkcoin for example, the price will go up even more as it will be perceived as a rare, sought after item. And other exchanges will pop up in countries which are less regulated to fill the gap.

Why do you think drugs are so expensive but cheap to manufacture.
MajidBC
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August 06, 2014, 06:50:23 AM
 #23

Monero offers unparalleled priquidity.  I made that up.  I'm proud of it.  (privacy * liquidity) = priquidity.  I also haven't slept in too darn long.

This should be Monero's new slogan!

Priquiditas pro populum.  (Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.)

That was funny. Or: In Monero We Trust!
Now translate it to Latin to make it more profound!
MajidBC
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August 06, 2014, 06:54:06 AM
 #24

One of the bitcointalk ads says:
"Even if you use Bitcoin through Tor, the way transactions are handled by the network makes anonymity difficult to achieve. Do not expect your transactions to be anonymous unless you really know what you're doing."

In your opinion, which coin really has anonymous transaction? Is total anonymity possible at all?

I research this question for some time. There are a lot of peoples under each post who trying to promote their one RealAnonCoin but what i get

Bitcoin mixer and shared transaction services - it looks like real way only if you trust the service.
https://bitmixer.io/index.html - one of them

Darkcoin - Masternode technology. popular, interesting and expensive if i get the ino right(10% for darksend)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=724083.0 look here - there are a lot info and links about darkcoin technology

Bytecoin/Monero - cryptonight. ring signatures. if you want to look at this kind of coins - just read about Cryptonight and ringsignatures, not about concrete coin.

There are a lot of "truly anonymous"  coins with Guy Fawkes but they look unserious for me.

Thanks for the response. I just read about Bitcoin mixer. It's an easy idea, but I guess its implementation is complicated. How much is the fee for it?

Darkcoin is way too expensive, as you mentioned.

Monero seems interesting to me.

Do you think governments will forbid anonymous transactions? For example, by forcing exchanges not to accept them.

If governments force Exchanges in their country to not accept Darkcoin for example, the price will go up even more as it will be perceived as a rare, sought after item. And other exchanges will pop up in countries which are less regulated to fill the gap.

Why do you think drugs are so expensive but cheap to manufacture.

That's a good point. What if they specify tax for Darkcoin (or higher tax)?
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August 06, 2014, 08:04:23 AM
 #25

Why do you think drugs are so expensive but cheap to manufacture.
Karl Marx would tell you that labor adds value Wink

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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August 06, 2014, 08:10:07 AM
 #26

the big data make anonymity become more and more difficult.
MajidBC
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August 06, 2014, 09:40:01 AM
 #27

Why do you think drugs are so expensive but cheap to manufacture.
Karl Marx would tell you that labor adds value Wink

He's right. Just check it here:
https://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/l/a.htm#labour-theory-value  Cheesy
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August 06, 2014, 09:41:15 AM
 #28

the big data make anonymity become more and more difficult.

What do you mean by "the big data"? Blockchain info?
aminorex
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August 06, 2014, 09:45:13 AM
 #29


Thanks for the response. I just read about Bitcoin mixer. It's an easy idea, but I guess its implementation is complicated. How much is the fee for it?
...
Do you think governments will forbid anonymous transactions? For example, by forcing exchanges not to accept them.

Coinjoin is very weak.  Read about coinjoin sudoku.

Exchanges are nice but not necessary.  There will always be variation between jurisdictions anyhow, and crypto is global.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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August 06, 2014, 10:43:53 AM
 #30

Basically, with ring signatures a transaction output is signed by you and by a group of random signatories (garnered from the utxoset, and the number of signatures is specified by you). Only one of these signatures is "true" (and that can be determined by the recipient), but to an outside observer they cannot determine which of the N signatures on an output is true, as they all appear to be valid.


Firstly, thanks for the comprehensive explanation. You said in the quoted paragraph "the number of signatures is specified by you". Of course, the bigger, the harder to find the sender, right? Is there any bound for it? And, where can I set that?

Well, remember that you first need to crack either end of a transaction before you even get to the ring signature stage. Pragmatically, then: let's say you've purchased "ileegil drukz" from Walter, a manufacturer. He gets busted by the DEA who beat him with a pipe wrench until he reveals his wallet password. Now they can see all of the incoming transfers. They pick one of them that has, say, a mixin of 5. They now have 5 seemingly valid signatures on each of the transaction outputs (but no direct way of knowing who those 5 signatories are, short of knowing the identity of every single wallet holder on the network). Quite literally the only way for them to prove a transaction happened is to have access to both the sender and the recipient's private keys.

There is no upper bound on mixin, but each signature increases the size of the transaction, so when we move to per-kb fees a higher mixin will cost more. Right now you're only bound by physical transaction size limits. Just to confirm that very high mixins work, I created a 1 XMR example transaction with a mixin of 100 no problem, and it was mined and confirmed with a minute.

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August 06, 2014, 12:32:08 PM
 #31

Is anonymity very important? i think the important thing is benefit of mankind.
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August 06, 2014, 12:37:58 PM
 #32

the big data make anonymity become more and more difficult.

What do you mean by "the big data"? Blockchain info?

I think he means the mass surveillance program which includes data from millions of web-trackers, social networks including facebook, email services, phone conversations, instant messengers, google searches and the list goes on. All of this data is collected and accessible by employees of the NSA and private contractors without a warrant, both private and public information. To be anonymous these days you need to take extreme precautions, because there is money to be made in stalingrad surveillance systems  Wink
 


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August 06, 2014, 12:56:31 PM
 #33

the big data make anonymity become more and more difficult.

What do you mean by "the big data"? Blockchain info?

I think he means the mass surveillance program which includes data from millions of web-trackers, social networks including facebook, email services, phone conversations, instant messengers, google searches and the list goes on. All of this data is collected and accessible by employees of the NSA and private contractors without a warrant, both private and public information. To be anonymous these days you need to take extreme precautions, because there is money to be made in stalingrad surveillance systems  Wink
 



Not even just the NSA. With Bitcoin anyone can do analysis fairly easily. Tools for data analysis are easier to use now more than ever and anyone who can code a little can take a bit data set and try to get some useful information.
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August 06, 2014, 01:00:05 PM
 #34

the big data make anonymity become more and more difficult.

What do you mean by "the big data"? Blockchain info?

I think he means the mass surveillance program which includes data from millions of web-trackers, social networks including facebook, email services, phone conversations, instant messengers, google searches and the list goes on. All of this data is collected and accessible by employees of the NSA and private contractors without a warrant, both private and public information. To be anonymous these days you need to take extreme precautions, because there is money to be made in stalingrad surveillance systems  Wink


Not even just the NSA. With Bitcoin anyone can do analysis fairly easily. Tools for data analysis are easier to use now more than ever and anyone who can code a little can take a bit data set and try to get some useful information.

yes, but in relation with anonymity you need an enormous dataset which at present is only accessible to large corporations, private contractors and organisations like the NSA.

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August 06, 2014, 01:32:45 PM
 #35

Is anonymity very important? i think the important thing is benefit of mankind.

Without anonymity, the best working picture of the future is that of a boot endlessly stomping on a human face.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624223.msg7998097#msg7998097

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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August 06, 2014, 02:30:44 PM
Last edit: August 06, 2014, 02:48:39 PM by sonoIO
 #36

Is anonymity very important? i think the important thing is benefit of mankind.

Without anonymity, the best working picture of the future is that of a boot endlessly stomping on a human face.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624223.msg7998097#msg7998097

Couldn't agree more. Anonymity (i.e. privacy) is human right regulated by UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, if nowhere else in your country. One should learn from the history, not ignore it.

Additionally, i personally believe that privacy is one of few (if not the only efficient one) peaceful tools that ppl have to motivate their states to reorganize and optimize itself, if/when corruption gets out of control - i.e. when corruption is that large that fair elections are not possibility anymore, or when fair elections are possible but don't change anything. This second part may be hard to understand for someone that lives in well organized country, but there are really fu*ked up countries in the World.

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August 06, 2014, 02:37:12 PM
 #37

One of the bitcointalk ads says:
"Even if you use Bitcoin through Tor, the way transactions are handled by the network makes anonymity difficult to achieve. Do not expect your transactions to be anonymous unless you really know what you're doing."

In your opinion, which coin really has anonymous transaction? Is total anonymity possible at all?

The ad talks about how your IP could be linked to your transaction.

Now if you use TOR but still didn't hide your traces before, than an ovserver could link your previous transactions to an IP because all Txs are linked.

So to achive anonymity with bitcoin you need to cut the link between your transactions and your IP and in addition to that you need to unlink your transactions from your personal details. Tumblers can help with that.

This spot for rent.
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August 06, 2014, 02:41:17 PM
 #38

What about Zerocash / coin anonymity These are supposed to be totally anonymous. wont they be untraceable when they go live?

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August 06, 2014, 03:03:28 PM
 #39

What about Zerocash / coin anonymity These are supposed to be totally anonymous. wont they be untraceable when they go live?

If they go live anyway. I haven't heard anything for a while now.

Doesn't mean it's not coming though. Maybe they're just hard at work. Smiley
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August 06, 2014, 04:48:10 PM
 #40

ring signatures used in coins like monero cause blockchain bloat making them unusable for mainstream adoption...so no...XC is what your looking for, read it and weep if your not invested already https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.0  Roll Eyes
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