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Author Topic: Anonymity  (Read 4570 times)
MajidBC
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August 04, 2014, 04:57:06 PM
 #1

One of the bitcointalk ads says:
"Even if you use Bitcoin through Tor, the way transactions are handled by the network makes anonymity difficult to achieve. Do not expect your transactions to be anonymous unless you really know what you're doing."

In your opinion, which coin really has anonymous transaction? Is total anonymity possible at all?
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August 04, 2014, 05:06:51 PM
 #2

Boolberry is anonymous.

http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-solves-cryptonoteflaws-37055246
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August 04, 2014, 06:25:44 PM
 #3

It's well known that Monero (the largest CryptoNote-based coin) provides cryptographically unlinkable and untraceable transactions, a trait it shares with all of the CryptoNote-based coins.

One of the points that is often not mentioned with the Bitcoin-forked altcoins that claim anonymous transactions is that you have to give out your recipient address to receive coins. The process in-between may protect the sender, but if the receiver's address is found (eg. mentioned on a forum or on IRC once) the receiver is at-risk, since it can be seen that they received a transaction of a certain amount.

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August 05, 2014, 06:58:57 AM
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I've never heard of it. I'll take a look at it.
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August 05, 2014, 07:01:18 AM
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It's well known that Monero (the largest CryptoNote-based coin) provides cryptographically unlinkable and untraceable transactions, a trait it shares with all of the CryptoNote-based coins.

One of the points that is often not mentioned with the Bitcoin-forked altcoins that claim anonymous transactions is that you have to give out your recipient address to receive coins. The process in-between may protect the sender, but if the receiver's address is found (eg. mentioned on a forum or on IRC once) the receiver is at-risk, since it can be seen that they received a transaction of a certain amount.

I'm not familiar with CryptoNote-based coins. I should search about it.

Certainly the second point you mentioned is true.
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August 05, 2014, 07:48:09 AM
 #6

Monero offers unparalleled priquidity.  I made that up.  I'm proud of it.  (privacy * liquidity) = priquidity.  I also haven't slept in too darn long.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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August 05, 2014, 10:13:31 AM
 #7

Credits CRD will be the most safe and secure way to go it also will have an integrated decentralized exchange
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=634403.0

Video to upcoming 2.0 version http://vimeo.com/100148381


One of the bitcointalk ads says:
"Even if you use Bitcoin through Tor, the way transactions are handled by the network makes anonymity difficult to achieve. Do not expect your transactions to be anonymous unless you really know what you're doing."

In your opinion, which coin really has anonymous transaction? Is total anonymity possible at all?

MajidBC
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August 05, 2014, 12:05:28 PM
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Monero offers unparalleled priquidity.  I made that up.  I'm proud of it.  (privacy * liquidity) = priquidity.  I also haven't slept in too darn long.

That's a good word: priquidity. If you say it somewhere, people will think you are an expert.
Btw, I'm just studying about Monero.
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August 05, 2014, 12:11:45 PM
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Monero offers unparalleled priquidity.  I made that up.  I'm proud of it.  (privacy * liquidity) = priquidity.  I also haven't slept in too darn long.

That's a good word: priquidity. If you say it somewhere, people will think you are an expert.
Btw, I'm just studying about Monero.

It really seems a good coin. I have a question. What is "Adaptive parameters" under Features here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0

This part is interesting:
Unlike Bitcoin, your funds are not held in the address you give out to others. Instead, every time you receive a payment it goes to an unlinkable address generated with random numbers. When you decide to spend the funds in that one-time address, the amount will be broken down and the components will be indistinguishable from identical outputs in the blockchain.
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August 05, 2014, 12:20:00 PM
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Credits CRD will be the most safe and secure way to go it also will have an integrated decentralized exchange
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=634403.0

Video to upcoming 2.0 version http://vimeo.com/100148381


One of the bitcointalk ads says:
"Even if you use Bitcoin through Tor, the way transactions are handled by the network makes anonymity difficult to achieve. Do not expect your transactions to be anonymous unless you really know what you're doing."

In your opinion, which coin really has anonymous transaction? Is total anonymity possible at all?

I also have a question for you. Can you please explain me what "Decentralized marketplace" under Features means?
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August 05, 2014, 12:35:31 PM
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Monero is the best anon coin hands down.
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August 05, 2014, 12:51:22 PM
 #12

It really seems a good coin. I have a question. What is "Adaptive parameters" under Features here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0

This part is interesting:
Unlike Bitcoin, your funds are not held in the address you give out to others. Instead, every time you receive a payment it goes to an unlinkable address generated with random numbers. When you decide to spend the funds in that one-time address, the amount will be broken down and the components will be indistinguishable from identical outputs in the blockchain.

The adaptive parameters are discussed in the CryptoNote whitepaper - a good starting point is our annotated version of the whitepaper (the annotations are raw, so just ignore the occasional piece of snark;) that you can grab here: http://monero.cc/downloads/whitepaper_annotated.pdf - a lot of it is around hard-coded constraints in Bitcoin and Bitcoin clones that are adaptive or flexible in Monero.

One of the key features that makes privacy inherent in Monero is, as you pointed out, stealth addresses. You only have one "address", which is not an address in the Bitcoin sense of the term, and when funds are sent to it the address is unpacked and the resulting key combined with random data to compute the destination for a particular output. This means that it's impossible to inspect the blockchain and find someone's balance, and if your address is leaked there's ostensibly no way for blockchain analysis to confirm whether or not you received funds to that address.

Of course, there are esoteric attacks that could reveal information about a sender or recipient, which is why ring signatures provide an additional layer of ambiguity. Basically, with ring signatures a transaction output is signed by you and by a group of random signatories (garnered from the utxoset, and the number of signatures is specified by you). Only one of these signatures is "true" (and that can be determined by the recipient), but to an outside observer they cannot determine which of the N signatures on an output is true, as they all appear to be valid.

Additional edge cases can and do exist that may "deanonymise" a group of signatures, but they are such extreme edge cases that they are not going to be a concern except where a sufficiently advanced and powerful attacker exists (and in that case they'd probably just beat you with a pipe wrench till they get your privkey and can access everything anyway). There have been suggestions such as enforcing a minimum mixin, and there's an interesting discussion on the pitfalls of such a system on the CryptoNote forum if you're interested. Ultimately there are many, many things outside of Monero's control that are more likely to unmask someone, such as them being caught physically receiving a marked package at the post office, but for the purposes of most transactions Monero provides a 100% working system in which transactions are cryptographically unlinkable and untraceable.

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August 05, 2014, 01:44:46 PM
 #13

One of the bitcointalk ads says:
"Even if you use Bitcoin through Tor, the way transactions are handled by the network makes anonymity difficult to achieve. Do not expect your transactions to be anonymous unless you really know what you're doing."

In your opinion, which coin really has anonymous transaction? Is total anonymity possible at all?

I research this question for some time. There are a lot of peoples under each post who trying to promote their one RealAnonCoin but what i get

Bitcoin mixer and shared transaction services - it looks like real way only if you trust the service.
https://bitmixer.io/index.html - one of them

Darkcoin - Masternode technology. popular, interesting and expensive if i get the ino right(10% for darksend)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=724083.0 look here - there are a lot info and links about darkcoin technology

Bytecoin/Monero - cryptonight. ring signatures. if you want to look at this kind of coins - just read about Cryptonight and ringsignatures, not about concrete coin.

There are a lot of "truly anonymous"  coins with Guy Fawkes but they look unserious for me.
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August 05, 2014, 04:36:30 PM
 #14

If your asking in a present tense then I'd say a cryptonote coin like Monero.  I'm a believer That coins like XC, DRK and others have real potential.  That shouldn't be ignored and are worth taking the time to look into.
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August 05, 2014, 04:55:41 PM
 #15

If you want to stick with bitcoin, you can go to the "know what you are doing" path.

You'll need to know anyway, to decide if all the anoncoins around are really anons or not.
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August 05, 2014, 07:46:36 PM
 #16

Monero offers unparalleled priquidity.  I made that up.  I'm proud of it.  (privacy * liquidity) = priquidity.  I also haven't slept in too darn long.

This should be Monero's new slogan!
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August 06, 2014, 05:47:33 AM
 #17

Priquiditas pro populum.  (Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.)

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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August 06, 2014, 06:20:00 AM
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Monero: Priquiditas por homoj.

Keeping with the theme, esperanto sounds decidedly less profound unfortunately. Tongue
MajidBC
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August 06, 2014, 06:26:56 AM
 #19

It really seems a good coin. I have a question. What is "Adaptive parameters" under Features here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0

This part is interesting:
Unlike Bitcoin, your funds are not held in the address you give out to others. Instead, every time you receive a payment it goes to an unlinkable address generated with random numbers. When you decide to spend the funds in that one-time address, the amount will be broken down and the components will be indistinguishable from identical outputs in the blockchain.

Basically, with ring signatures a transaction output is signed by you and by a group of random signatories (garnered from the utxoset, and the number of signatures is specified by you). Only one of these signatures is "true" (and that can be determined by the recipient), but to an outside observer they cannot determine which of the N signatures on an output is true, as they all appear to be valid.


Firstly, thanks for the comprehensive explanation. You said in the quoted paragraph "the number of signatures is specified by you". Of course, the bigger, the harder to find the sender, right? Is there any bound for it? And, where can I set that?
MajidBC
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August 06, 2014, 06:38:29 AM
 #20

One of the bitcointalk ads says:
"Even if you use Bitcoin through Tor, the way transactions are handled by the network makes anonymity difficult to achieve. Do not expect your transactions to be anonymous unless you really know what you're doing."

In your opinion, which coin really has anonymous transaction? Is total anonymity possible at all?

I research this question for some time. There are a lot of peoples under each post who trying to promote their one RealAnonCoin but what i get

Bitcoin mixer and shared transaction services - it looks like real way only if you trust the service.
https://bitmixer.io/index.html - one of them

Darkcoin - Masternode technology. popular, interesting and expensive if i get the ino right(10% for darksend)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=724083.0 look here - there are a lot info and links about darkcoin technology

Bytecoin/Monero - cryptonight. ring signatures. if you want to look at this kind of coins - just read about Cryptonight and ringsignatures, not about concrete coin.

There are a lot of "truly anonymous"  coins with Guy Fawkes but they look unserious for me.

Thanks for the response. I just read about Bitcoin mixer. It's an easy idea, but I guess its implementation is complicated. How much is the fee for it?

Darkcoin is way too expensive, as you mentioned.

Monero seems interesting to me.

Do you think governments will forbid anonymous transactions? For example, by forcing exchanges not to accept them.
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