Low power chips WANTED!!! 0.3 W/Ghs or around. Ideal miner design for exchange

[sidehack]

We need more third-party manufacturers that can build not-crappy miners from mainline chips and sell them for not-crappy prices. And then actually ship them instead of screwing people over.

[Bicknellski]

We need more third-party manufacturers that can build not-crappy miners from mainline chips and sell them for not-crappy prices. And then actually ship them instead of screwing people over.

Problem is.

Non crappy prices means zero profitability.

Consumer prices rely on larger volumes and currently the market for miners to consumers is too small to make it a viable model. Why are companies going to B2B? Volume. Simply the economies of scale for single units for the home is just not there compared to mega farms. The trend will continue until there are no mid sized farms and only mega farms left.

The only viable way this could change would be massive amounts of small devices integrated into home electronics. Or linking millions of small units together in a single pool to compete with mega farms.

The money is not there at this time to go after the ever shrinking market home user unless you have some sort of miner that is more gadget than miner. You will likely start seeing these sorts of things popping up but it will require some really innovative design team to get them to be interesting to the consumer level buyers but also to break out of the niche in these forums it would have to have wide appeal well beyond the hardware forums.

[dogie]

The only viable way this could change would be massive amounts of small devices integrated into home electronics.

I've heard you talk about this web of things type model before, it will never ever ever be even remotely close to viable. Putting single / quad chip PCBs + own controllers + wifi is so incredibly expensive compared to even an S5 formfactor.

[dropt]

The only viable way this could change would be massive amounts of small devices integrated into home electronics.

I've heard you talk about this web of things type model before, it will never ever ever be even remotely close to viable. Putting single / quad chip PCBs + own controllers + wifi is so incredibly expensive compared to even an S5 formfactor.

While I think the idea on it's own is dumb (non starter), devices that are already internet capable can have a sha256 asic integrated at very low cost.  Not to mention a lot of the components you listed are cheap as hell when purchased in volume.

[dmeter]

  I've read that there are two companies getting close.... and one company has reached tapeout saying the chip is 0.07 W/GHS???:


or

Is it all hype???

also i am closer to be millioner in cash,only missing 999999 $

[dogie]

The only viable way this could change would be massive amounts of small devices integrated into home electronics.

I've heard you talk about this web of things type model before, it will never ever ever be even remotely close to viable. Putting single / quad chip PCBs + own controllers + wifi is so incredibly expensive compared to even an S5 formfactor.

While I think the idea on it's own is dumb (non starter), devices that are already internet capable can have a sha256 asic integrated at very low cost.  Not to mention a lot of the components you listed are cheap as hell when purchased in volume.

A controller isn't cheap per GH when we're talking about 5-30W worth of chips.

[dropt]

The only viable way this could change would be massive amounts of small devices integrated into home electronics.

I've heard you talk about this web of things type model before, it will never ever ever be even remotely close to viable. Putting single / quad chip PCBs + own controllers + wifi is so incredibly expensive compared to even an S5 formfactor.

While I think the idea on it's own is dumb (non starter), devices that are already internet capable can have a sha256 asic integrated at very low cost.  Not to mention a lot of the components you listed are cheap as hell when purchased in volume.

A controller isn't cheap per GH when we're talking about 5-30W worth of chips.

What are you basing your opinion off of?  Likely any embedded processor used for an IOT device will be more than capable of running a few GH.

Edit:  An example...

ARM's embed IOT platform utilizes Cortex M series MCU:

http://www.arm.com/products/internet-of-things-solutions/mbed-IoT-device-platform.php

BCT user jlsminingcorp sold a 48GH standalone Bitfury miner utilizing an ARM Cortex M3 MCU.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278330.0

[dogie]

BCT user jlsminingcorp sold a 48GH standalone Bitfury miner utilizing an ARM Cortex M3 MCU.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278330.0

He was selling a 48Gh board for ~$1800, that's not really the same thing as trying to remain $ efficient for $2-3 worth of chips + controller.

[dropt]

BCT user jlsminingcorp sold a 48GH standalone Bitfury miner utilizing an ARM Cortex M3 MCU.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278330.0

He was selling a 48Gh board for ~$1800, that's not really the same thing as trying to remain $ efficient for $2-3 worth of chips + controller.

It was also mid 2013.  The point is that an IOT device is likely already going to have a processor capable of acting as the controller, so you don't need to include one.  Also an IOT device is likely to already be networked via WiFi and you won't need to include that.  The only thing you may need is some DC/DC regulation (maybe) and that is v.cheap in qty.  In practice you should be able to add some hashing ASICs for pennies on top of the bare chip.

[klondike_bar]

The only viable way this could change would be massive amounts of small devices integrated into home electronics.

I've heard you talk about this web of things type model before, it will never ever ever be even remotely close to viable. Putting single / quad chip PCBs + own controllers + wifi is so incredibly expensive compared to even an S5 formfactor.

While I think the idea on it's own is dumb (non starter), devices that are already internet capable can have a sha256 asic integrated at very low cost.  Not to mention a lot of the components you listed are cheap as hell when purchased in volume.

I've always been pretty adamantly against this happening. it just isnt practical in most use cases. Bitcoin mining is supposed to always be only marginally more profitable than the cost to mine.

when MBP has a datacenter with 2MW of power, paying less than 5c/kwh - theres no way a little DVD player with $10 worth of ASIC chips will compete, particularly as the majority of buyers would live where power is >10c/kwh and they likely dont want a constant 20-40W heating element sitting in their media cabinet.

the only viable options are space heaters and water heaters. spaceheater-wise; better to just buy an old ASIC like the S1/S3.
waterheater-wise; a distributor could come up with a clever way to do it, but water heaters only run about 6hrs/day, and a gas-powered one costs about 1/5th as much as an electric one to operate.

theres no real usage case for mining outside of high density, specialized equipment - unless you want a LOT of consumers pissed off because bitcoin made thier power bills outrageously high and their houses obscenely warm

[sidehack]

1. I'm interested in building miners for home users, and honestly most of the things we've sold haven't had much profit margin in them so why change that now? Like I said, we need third-party manufacturers that don't screw people over. I guess we also need first-party manufacturers that don't screw people as well.

2. I fairly vehemently despise the IoT concept and will not be participating. Neither will any GekkoScience products, no matter how trendy and profitable it might be, because we don't want to help the world shift to Hacker's Paradise and/or Skynet.

Also, miner controllers aren't that hard to conjure up if you don't suck at embedded programming. The AM Blade and Cube run off a little PIC32, and the Prisma controller's micro has 512KB RAM - three orders of magnitude less than a Pi. Even an Arm Cortex would be overkill for all but a huge and overly convoluted machine.

[Meech]

Wow a company dedicated to the miner first, seems to have been said loosely before by every company.  Until they made enough to start their own multi petahash farms.

[sidehack]

Right now we're doing good just to pay the electric bill and keep enough to manufacture batches of PSU boards. We've got some outside jobs coming in that'll get some more R&D dollars in the coffer to expand product lines.

If that was meant to be sarcastic, take a look at everything Novak or I have ever posted. You'll see we've always helped little guys as much as possible. We started building PSU boards so home users could take advantage of increased efficiency and decreased price of secondhand server supplies, to help shave off the edge industrial buyers get in price preference. Our hosting service has a 15KW per-user limit so nobody big can take over what we've built for regular guys that can't afford to mine at home anymore. Which by the way, nobody draws a wage from maintaining the hosting infrastructure. The fees are entirely electric and building costs. We're designing hardware right now to allow efficient undervolting of S5 so they're viable longer; we're working on undervolt studies for BE200 gear so they can be viable longer; we're working toward a fully-configurable (clock and voltage) BM1384 board basically as an independent S1 upgrade. We made our own USB adapters (and sold 'em at cost) for Tube/Prisma when AM sucked at getting them to folks what needed them.

Basically, the bitcoin economy needs more people whose primary motivation is NOT greed.

[Bicknellski]

Basically, the bitcoin economy needs more people whose primary motivation is NOT greed.

Consumers will buy miners motivated by what?

1. ROI.
2. Possess cutting edge miners.
3. To support Bitcoin.

I think the basic motivation to be a good player or company in Bitcoin has little to do with viability of the company.

What the consumer wants will drive what eventually gets made and continues to be made.

If you are unwilling to create demand and explore alternatives then you are doomed to failure. You can't continue building things people do not want to buy.

Even the scammers recognize that and have given up trying to swindle people who are buying miners.

[sidehack]

Ideally, the *world* needs more people whose primary motivation is not greed, but you know, one step at a time.

"the basic motivation to be a good player or company in Bitcoin has little to do with viability of the company" is generally a sad fact.

"What the consumer wants will drive what eventually gets made and continues to be made" is great, but ignoring 90% of the customer base (sure, it's only got 10% of the money but it's still 90% of the customers) is kinda stupid. When you sell a decentralized system to only a core group, it ceases to be a decentralized system. When a small number of folks control the supply of bitcoins, how is that cartel different than any federal mint?

The problem isn't building things people don't want to buy, it's not building things people do want and alienating everyone except the high rollers. The few dozen rich guys capitalizing on the framework laid by the million regular joes that came before and are now being squeezed out of the way.