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Author Topic: Audit of the Federal Reserve Reveals $16 Trillion in Secret Bailouts  (Read 4615 times)
RoadTrain
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October 18, 2014, 05:06:07 PM
 #61

rugrats, you don't argue kindly, so don't ask me to do the same.
Quote
You say foreign companies trading with U.S companies must have local bank accounts.
I never said so, stop claiming that. That was a figure.
Quote
Imagine an Asian export company that sells goods to the U.S. The dollar revenue they receive is credited to their account in some U.S. bank. It's still in the U.S.
Don't you understand the word "imagine"? Where is the word "must" what you repeatedly put in my mouth?

Quote
2. Please read the links I've provided. Please don't ignore them and then ask for an explanation.
I've read your links. Honestly, they didn't give me anything new. That's why I asked for your explanation as if it could shed some light on the issue.

Quote
3. The Federal Reserve and the Fedwire are not the same. One is a central bank, and the other is a payment system facilitating fund transfers between reciprocal domestic agents. Useful reading to differentiate between central banks and clearing houses: http://www.chicagofed.org/digital_assets/others/events/2014/annual_over_the_counter_derivatives_symposium/tucker_clearinghouses_new_central_banks_tucker_2014.pdf
Again, I never said they are the same. I said that Fedwire is operated by the Fed. C'mon, I know they're not equivalent.

Quote
4. Fedwire works alongside other clearing houses, especially for international transfers. However, the Federal Reserve has it's own liquidity swaps program with several central banks. Guess what they're swapping? http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_liquidityswaps.htm
Be more concrete, what's your point here?

Quote
5. Fedwire's RTGS system is not unique - nearly all first world central banks performs RTGS - as well as those in the majority of developing coutries.
I know that, and?

Quote
6. Central banks, banks, financial institutions, and private corporations are different entities. Central banks, like the Federal Reserve, DO NOT have access to private wealth - even in Communist nations.
Tell me the point of your statements concerning our discussion.

Quote
7. Your own link above does not contradict what I said.
Neither do yours contradict mine.

Quote
8. Let's do a quick recap:
I originally said the U.S. Federal government might implement currency controls as one of the options to circumvent a dollar debt crisis with China.
You say dollars do not leave the Feds and the U.S.. You say foreign companies trading with U.S companies must have local bank accounts.
We've already established that both of these assertions are incorrect.
Have you established that in your head only?

Quote
9. A concise summary on the subject: What happens to the US dollars used to buy imports?
Quote
Thus, we see that those US dollars that leaked out of the US economy from purchases of imports by labor or capital are counterbalanced in various ways, including foreign investment in the United States, loans from foreigners and the actions of foreign central banks.
This article states that the dollars somehow "leak" but given the BOP requirements, they must come back in form of loans, investments, etc.. That's exactly what I mean, dollars do no "leave" or "leak" the U.S.

Sorry, I won't comment the rest, we seem to be discussing different ideas...
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October 18, 2014, 05:21:34 PM
 #62

Maybe this example will help you get my idea.

Lets imagine a Chinese company selling goods to the USA. Here are the ways they can get their revenue:
1. Company has a bank account at an american bank, which has an account with the Fed;
2. Company has an account at a chinese bank, which has a subsidiary in the US, which has an account with the Fed;
3. Company has an account at a chinese bank, which has an account at the import-export bank, which has an account with the Fed;
4. Company has an account at a chinese bank, which has an account at the import-export bank, which has an account with PBOC, which has an account with the Fed;
5. etc...

These examples might not be precise, but they show that when you're transacting dollars, the long chain of intermediaries link your dollars to the U.S.
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October 18, 2014, 06:12:39 PM
 #63

rugrats, you don't argue kindly, so don't ask me to do the same.
Quote
You say foreign companies trading with U.S companies must have local bank accounts.
I never said so, stop claiming that. That was a figure.
Quote
Imagine an Asian export company that sells goods to the U.S. The dollar revenue they receive is credited to their account in some U.S. bank. It's still in the U.S.
Don't you understand the word "imagine"? Where is the word "must" what you repeatedly put in my mouth?

Quote
2. Please read the links I've provided. Please don't ignore them and then ask for an explanation.
I've read your links. Honestly, they didn't give me anything new. That's why I asked for your explanation as if it could shed some light on the issue.

Quote
3. The Federal Reserve and the Fedwire are not the same. One is a central bank, and the other is a payment system facilitating fund transfers between reciprocal domestic agents. Useful reading to differentiate between central banks and clearing houses: http://www.chicagofed.org/digital_assets/others/events/2014/annual_over_the_counter_derivatives_symposium/tucker_clearinghouses_new_central_banks_tucker_2014.pdf
Again, I never said they are the same. I said that Fedwire is operated by the Fed. C'mon, I know they're not equivalent.

Quote
4. Fedwire works alongside other clearing houses, especially for international transfers. However, the Federal Reserve has it's own liquidity swaps program with several central banks. Guess what they're swapping? http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_liquidityswaps.htm
Be more concrete, what's your point here?

Quote
5. Fedwire's RTGS system is not unique - nearly all first world central banks performs RTGS - as well as those in the majority of developing coutries.
I know that, and?

Quote
6. Central banks, banks, financial institutions, and private corporations are different entities. Central banks, like the Federal Reserve, DO NOT have access to private wealth - even in Communist nations.
Tell me the point of your statements concerning our discussion.

Quote
7. Your own link above does not contradict what I said.
Neither do yours contradict mine.

Quote
8. Let's do a quick recap:
I originally said the U.S. Federal government might implement currency controls as one of the options to circumvent a dollar debt crisis with China.
You say dollars do not leave the Feds and the U.S.. You say foreign companies trading with U.S companies must have local bank accounts.
We've already established that both of these assertions are incorrect.
Have you established that in your head only?

Quote
9. A concise summary on the subject: What happens to the US dollars used to buy imports?
Quote
Thus, we see that those US dollars that leaked out of the US economy from purchases of imports by labor or capital are counterbalanced in various ways, including foreign investment in the United States, loans from foreigners and the actions of foreign central banks.
This article states that the dollars somehow "leak" but given the BOP requirements, they must come back in form of loans, investments, etc.. That's exactly what I mean, dollars do no "leave" or "leak" the U.S.

Sorry, I won't comment the rest, we seem to be discussing different ideas...

I have been very patient with you Roadtrain. If you don't see that, it's not my problem.
You're not an honest debater, because you keep sniping off my comments to avoid responding to them.
You are presenting a frankly ridiculous claim.

1. You keep trying to hide behind the word 'figure'. Did you not write that foreign companies trading with U.S. companies need to have bank account in the U.S.? That statement in itself ends the argument. If all the dollars are locked away in the U.S., how the heck are companies outside the U.S. getting paid?

2. You didn't read the links. You didn't even know about Fedwire before I brought it up.

3. No, you were operating under the impression that the Federal Reserve operated some kind of a "payment system" before you learned about Fedwire. Read your own words. It was necessary to explain to you that they are not the same.

4. Liquidity swaps mean currencies are traded outside of their home countries. It's all there. There is nothing vague about it.

5. No, you didn't know that. You said the Fedwire is "fundamentally different" because it uses RTGS.

6. Simple. You claim the Feds have access to all the dollars in the country. It doesn't. Private wealth, i.e., dollars held in banks are not under it's control.

7. My links contradict your weird assertion repeatedly, over and over again.

8. I've established it repeatedly, even in this post. But you lack the grace to admit that you were wrong and you continue to spout inanities in an attempt to prove some ridiculous notion.

9. So you concede that the dollars do leave the country then? The fact that they came back is a given. Trade doesn't flow in one direction.

You won't comment on the rest because you can't answer it without conceding that dollars do leave the country.

You were wrong. Move on. Everyone makes mistake sometimes.


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October 18, 2014, 06:16:43 PM
 #64

Maybe this example will help you get my idea.

Lets imagine a Chinese company selling goods to the USA. Here are the ways they can get their revenue:
1. Company has a bank account at an american bank, which has an account with the Fed;
2. Company has an account at a chinese bank, which has a subsidiary in the US, which has an account with the Fed;
3. Company has an account at a chinese bank, which has an account at the import-export bank, which has an account with the Fed;
4. Company has an account at a chinese bank, which has an account at the import-export bank, which has an account with PBOC, which has an account with the Fed;
5. etc...

These examples might not be precise, but they show that when you're transacting dollars, the long chain of intermediaries link your dollars to the U.S.

I've already countered this with my Japanese/Egyptian example earlier on
Remember Fedwire=domestic.
Consider, the seller and buyer's banks can choose not to use Fedwire and use other clearing houses to conduct their trade.


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October 18, 2014, 07:02:37 PM
 #65

rugrats, and now you're telling me about honesty Cheesy constantly twisting my words and putting claims that I didn't make in my mouth. And now you appear to be a telepath stating that I didn't know about Fedwire. Lol, you must be kidding me.
So yep, I'll move on.
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