Retail adoption hurts bitcoin price it doesn't help it and here's why

[Kipsy89]

When a big company or even a little shop starts to accept bitcoin people start to get excited and think this adoption will result in the bitcoin price shooting up. Well I'm here to tell you the exact opposite is what actually happens. If a store or big company accepts bitcoin that's all fine and great but they're not holding on to it they're immediately dumping it in most cases and this will just result in the price getting lower. Places that keep the Bitcoin they get are keeping the price higher but they are a minority most just instantly dump upon receival of the bitcoin. We don't need to just get stores to accept bitcoin we need to show them the true value of it and why they should even themselves use it as a currency and not just dump it as some worthless commodity which some believe it to be. If we do this we will see a real increase in price.

You really think? i believe there are a lot of companies who are interested in Bitcoin and do want to be part of it, and thus keep their BTC in  some wallet and hope the price goes up even further! Even that Overstock boss is a big fan of BTC now and telling everyone how great it is!

[botany]

Do these businesses not have any employees? Every buisness that begins accepting has employees getting introduced to bitcoin for the first time. I agree it would be awsome if every buisness that accepted them would at least retain the 2-3% they would pay in fees in bitcoin and I think we as consumers have a right to only spend our coins with those retailers who openly state they retain a portion. But back to my origional point the world is a big place.

They don't necessary have to retain bitcoins. Even if they spread it around, like Overstock is doing with employee bonuses in bitcoin, is a wonderful initiative.

[jjc326]

Do these businesses not have any employees? Every buisness that begins accepting has employees getting introduced to bitcoin for the first time. I agree it would be awsome if every buisness that accepted them would at least retain the 2-3% they would pay in fees in bitcoin and I think we as consumers have a right to only spend our coins with those retailers who openly state they retain a portion. But back to my origional point the world is a big place.

They don't necessary have to retain bitcoins. Even if they spread it around, like Overstock is doing with employee bonuses in bitcoin, is a wonderful initiative.

Oh cool, I hadn't heard of that.  Could increase usage exponentially when a new business accepts bitcoin if they give some to employees.

[Skoupi]

Faith to the system comes with stability. Bitcoin slowly builds its userbase of people that really believe in the technology.
Not scammers, not speculators.

The next stage is more widespread adoption and the price will skyrocket.

[botany]

Faith to the system comes with stability. Bitcoin slowly builds its userbase of people that really believe in the technology.
Not scammers, not speculators.

The next stage is more widespread adoption and the price will skyrocket.

Stability in terms of price? If stability --> higher adoption --> price sky rocketing, then it really wasn't stable initially, was it?

[Skoupi]

Faith to the system comes with stability. Bitcoin slowly builds its userbase of people that really believe in the technology.
Not scammers, not speculators.

The next stage is more widespread adoption and the price will skyrocket.

Stability in terms of price? If stability --> higher adoption --> price sky rocketing, then it really wasn't stable initially, was it?

It's natural for the price to skyrocket with widesread adoption. Don't confuse stability with stagnation.

[iluvpie60]

When a big company or even a little shop starts to accept bitcoin people start to get excited and think this adoption will result in the bitcoin price shooting up. Well I'm here to tell you the exact opposite is what actually happens. If a store or big company accepts bitcoin that's all fine and great but they're not holding on to it they're immediately dumping it in most cases and this will just result in the price getting lower. Places that keep the Bitcoin they get are keeping the price higher but they are a minority most just instantly dump upon receival of the bitcoin. We don't need to just get stores to accept bitcoin we need to show them the true value of it and why they should even themselves use it as a currency and not just dump it as some worthless commodity which some believe it to be. If we do this we will see a real increase in price.

As adoption by companies goes up the supply of BTC being used goes up. As users of BTC go up the demand goes up. Right now we are in a massive company sweep, where more and more companies are accepting BTC. The "supply" of companies accepting BTC is far outweighing the "demand" for using said BTC.


In other words when looking at a rough supply/demand chart, US, the PEOPLE, are the demand. The companies are the supply. There is TOO MUCH supply coming in vs demand coming in, to make the price go up right now.

That is the most simplistic I can explain that. I vote to sticky this please. k thx.

[counter]

I don't know my gut just tells me the OP is a BTC trader and the market hasn't been going as hoped.  The price isn't rapidly falling and more people are using Bitcoin as a result of the retail adoption.  How is this a bad thing?  IF anything it gives people to try out Bitcoin for a reasonable amount of money and then they will see how it works.  People won't try Bitcoin it they think it's a bubble ready to pop!

[botany]

I don't know my gut just tells me the OP is a BTC trader and the market hasn't been going as hoped.  The price isn't rapidly falling and more people are using Bitcoin as a result of the retail adoption.  How is this a bad thing?  IF anything it gives people to try out Bitcoin for a reasonable amount of money and then they will see how it works.  People won't try Bitcoin it they think it's a bubble ready to pop!

The downward trend in price seems to be event specific - government intervention in bitcoin, rather than higher retail adoption.

[Mobius]

When a big company or even a little shop starts to accept bitcoin people start to get excited and think this adoption will result in the bitcoin price shooting up. Well I'm here to tell you the exact opposite is what actually happens. If a store or big company accepts bitcoin that's all fine and great but they're not holding on to it they're immediately dumping it in most cases and this will just result in the price getting lower. Places that keep the Bitcoin they get are keeping the price higher but they are a minority most just instantly dump upon receival of the bitcoin. We don't need to just get stores to accept bitcoin we need to show them the true value of it and why they should even themselves use it as a currency and not just dump it as some worthless commodity which some believe it to be. If we do this we will see a real increase in price.

You really think? i believe there are a lot of companies who are interested in Bitcoin and do want to be part of it, and thus keep their BTC in  some wallet and hope the price goes up even further! Even that Overstock boss is a big fan of BTC now and telling everyone how great it is!

I don't think that companies will necessarily keep bitcon as an investment (most companies do not tend to speculate on things unrelated to their business) but rather as a way to potentially pay their employees, suppliers and vendors in the future. Paying the above people this way would likely be cheaper then paying in fiat in many cases.

[Hiraga]

The more people use bitcoin, the higher the price, easy as that.
It doesn't mean the price can't go down, if more current holders are preferring to sell ofcourse it would go lower but as long as the use is expanding it will create a higher low and build on top of that.

[botany]

Probably at the end there will be a one or more coins for reach people (commodity) and many others for poor people.
Can you imagine to tell to someone earning ~ 5 dollar/day: today you have earned 0,001 Btc. Quite discouraging. The coin for the masses will be made of biillion coins. Otherwise we have to say that the max cap is 21 billion, considering as unit the mBtc and simply rename it Btc.

If having 0.001 BTC is discouraging, we can always say that I have 100K satoshis.
That would be encouraging. 

[Fray]

When a big company or even a little shop starts to accept bitcoin people start to get excited and think this adoption will result in the bitcoin price shooting up. Well I'm here to tell you the exact opposite is what actually happens. If a store or big company accepts bitcoin that's all fine and great but they're not holding on to it they're immediately dumping it in most cases and this will just result in the price getting lower. Places that keep the Bitcoin they get are keeping the price higher but they are a minority most just instantly dump upon receival of the bitcoin. We don't need to just get stores to accept bitcoin we need to show them the true value of it and why they should even themselves use it as a currency and not just dump it as some worthless commodity which some believe it to be. If we do this we will see a real increase in price.

You really think? i believe there are a lot of companies who are interested in Bitcoin and do want to be part of it, and thus keep their BTC in  some wallet and hope the price goes up even further! Even that Overstock boss is a big fan of BTC now and telling everyone how great it is!

I don't think that companies will necessarily keep bitcon as an investment (most companies do not tend to speculate on things unrelated to their business) but rather as a way to potentially pay their employees, suppliers and vendors in the future. Paying the above people this way would likely be cheaper then paying in fiat in many cases.

I agree. The primary reason that people will likely same and accumlate bitcoin would be because they want to pay their vendors, suppliers and merchants in bitcoin.

[zedicus]

When a big company or even a little shop starts to accept bitcoin people start to get excited and think this adoption will result in the bitcoin price shooting up. Well I'm here to tell you the exact opposite is what actually happens. If a store or big company accepts bitcoin that's all fine and great but they're not holding on to it they're immediately dumping it in most cases and this will just result in the price getting lower. Places that keep the Bitcoin they get are keeping the price higher but they are a minority most just instantly dump upon receival of the bitcoin. We don't need to just get stores to accept bitcoin we need to show them the true value of it and why they should even themselves use it as a currency and not just dump it as some worthless commodity which some believe it to be. If we do this we will see a real increase in price.

You really think? i believe there are a lot of companies who are interested in Bitcoin and do want to be part of it, and thus keep their BTC in  some wallet and hope the price goes up even further! Even that Overstock boss is a big fan of BTC now and telling everyone how great it is!

I don't think that companies will necessarily keep bitcon as an investment (most companies do not tend to speculate on things unrelated to their business) but rather as a way to potentially pay their employees, suppliers and vendors in the future. Paying the above people this way would likely be cheaper then paying in fiat in many cases.

With the exception of banks and hedge funds, companies are really not allowed to speculate with their money. If for example you are a car company, then you will spend all your money on some aspect of building or selling the cars you make, not some unrelated investment.

I agree that some companies may eventually accumulate more bitcoin in order to pay their suppliers and others who they owe money on a regular basis. It would also be possible that they accumulate bitcoin in the same way they accumulate dollars or euros.

[MajidBC]

When a big company or even a little shop starts to accept bitcoin people start to get excited and think this adoption will result in the bitcoin price shooting up. Well I'm here to tell you the exact opposite is what actually happens. If a store or big company accepts bitcoin that's all fine and great but they're not holding on to it they're immediately dumping it in most cases and this will just result in the price getting lower. Places that keep the Bitcoin they get are keeping the price higher but they are a minority most just instantly dump upon receival of the bitcoin. We don't need to just get stores to accept bitcoin we need to show them the true value of it and why they should even themselves use it as a currency and not just dump it as some worthless commodity which some believe it to be. If we do this we will see a real increase in price.

I see two of the reasons why they dump:
First, when a retail sell its product, it need to replace a new one. How can the retail buy a new one? By bitcoin?
Second, the bitcoin price fluctuates too much, and it's risky for them to keep it.

[bitcats]

When a big company or even a little shop starts to accept bitcoin people start to get excited and think this adoption will result in the bitcoin price shooting up. Well I'm here to tell you the exact opposite is what actually happens. If a store or big company accepts bitcoin that's all fine and great but they're not holding on to it they're immediately dumping it in most cases and this will just result in the price getting lower. Places that keep the Bitcoin they get are keeping the price higher but they are a minority most just instantly dump upon receival of the bitcoin. We don't need to just get stores to accept bitcoin we need to show them the true value of it and why they should even themselves use it as a currency and not just dump it as some worthless commodity which some believe it to be. If we do this we will see a real increase in price.

I see two of the reasons why they dump:
First, when a retail sell its product, it need to replace a new one. How can the retail buy a new one? By bitcoin?

That's what happens when you add more holes into a bucket but limit the ways to get water in. If only buying Bitcoin was as easy as spending it.

[BADecker]

The rarer it is, while holding value, the greater it's value will become. It won't take long for the rareness of Bitcoin to become evident, especially when there are more people who want it.

Remember one important thing. The closer we approach the 21 million maximum, the slower new ones will be created - half as many this 4 years as the last 4 years. Yet, if there isn't something that drastically reduces the population on earth, there will always be way more people who want it than the number of bitcoins out there. And the number of people will be increasing.

As long as something doesn't destroy Bitcoin's ability to be used, it will continue to increase in value. Odds are that, as the number of people using it increases at a faster exponential rate than the number of bitcoins being created, the value will only rise.

The thing that will make the value of a bitcoin shoot beyond the moon, will be when the effect of all those $17 trillion dollars that were created in various Quantum Easing programs starts to be felt. This will happen as this fiat is gradually dumped on the market.

Lots of stuff to consider.

[Jace]

It depends. I'm one of the people behind BitKassa, the Dutch Bitcoin payment provider that is being used for most merchants in Arnhem (active since the Arnhem Bitcoincity event in May). Most merchants use BitKassa to accept Bitcoin payments and receive euros. However, these bitcoins are not being dumped on exchanges. So far we have sold exactly ZERO bitcoins of all the payments we processed.

Besides, more and more businesses are accepting Bitcoin every day. Once merchants start realizing that they can not just accept Bitcoin payments (as a cost reduction and service to their customers), but also SPEND bitcoins to their suppliers, it will quickly increase their incentive of actually keeping the bitcoins, and no longer convert them to fiat at all.

[counter]

I really don't see where the OP is coming from.  How can a company advertising Bitcoin to their customers be bad.  And if people use Bitcoins to buy things from them they got what they wanted.  Thsi in my book is a full circle win win, Please weigh the pros and the cons and take into consideration of potential longterm holders coming in because of all this adoption.

If someone has posted something like this a year or so ago my mind would have melted down and then blown up.

[botany]

It depends. I'm one of the people behind BitKassa, the Dutch Bitcoin payment provider that is being used for most merchants in Arnhem (active since the Arnhem Bitcoincity event in May). Most merchants use BitKassa to accept Bitcoin payments and receive euros. However, these bitcoins are not being dumped on exchanges. So far we have sold exactly ZERO bitcoins of all the payments we processed.

So how does it work? Do you pay the merchants EUR from your own reserves? Is it sustainable?