State Atheism

[zolace]

Got curious and was checking out China's position on religion.

Came across this article on State Atheism.  Rather interesting - rather like a State Church, like was common in Europe.  And, at least by definition, not the same as a secular state.

Examples of such were/are the communist states, Revolutionary France and Revolutionary Mexico.  The article goes into detail on each such country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

State atheism is the official promotion of atheism by a government, sometimes combined with active suppression of religious freedom and practice. In contrast, a secular state purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion. State atheism may refer to a government's anti-clericalism, which opposes religious institutional power and influence in all aspects of public and political life, including the involvement of religion in the everyday life of the citizen.

[Rigon]

If I had to choose between a Theocracy or State atheism I would pick the latter every time.

[zolace]

If I had to choose between a Theocracy or State atheism I would pick the latter every time.

Historically, what examples of a Theocracy are you referencing, out of curiosity?Kind of hard to compare and discuss your point, unless you have some specific examples in mind.

[TaunSew]

There are a few Atheist churches in the world. .  where people congregate for service. .

[zolace]

Although no matter what one believes about theology, including the origins of man, there are still difficult questions, atheism does not do a good job either recognizing the existence and nature of evil, or explaining its origin.

[Rigon]

If I had to choose between a Theocracy or State atheism I would pick the latter every time.

Historically, what examples of a Theocracy are you referencing, out of curiosity?Kind of hard to compare and discuss your point, unless you have some specific examples in mind.

A theocracy is a theocracy is a theocracy. All the same and all bad. A government free of state religion but allowing people to worship their Gods is perfect. If only theists would be happy with such abundance.

[ensurance982]

Got curious and was checking out China's position on religion.

Came across this article on State Atheism.  Rather interesting - rather like a State Church, like was common in Europe.  And, at least by definition, not the same as a secular state.

Examples of such were/are the communist states, Revolutionary France and Revolutionary Mexico.  The article goes into detail on each such country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

State atheism is the official promotion of atheism by a government, sometimes combined with active suppression of religious freedom and practice. In contrast, a secular state purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion. State atheism may refer to a government's anti-clericalism, which opposes religious institutional power and influence in all aspects of public and political life, including the involvement of religion in the everyday life of the citizen.

Well, surprise surprise... Atheism in it's weak form is a good thing (in my opinion). But many atheists are not a single bit 'better' or open minded than the most religious nutjobs. If you are running around and tell people that their religion is wrong and they shouldn't force their believe on others, well go figure what you're doing yourself!

[zolace]

If I had to choose between a Theocracy or State atheism I would pick the latter every time.

Historically, what examples of a Theocracy are you referencing, out of curiosity?Kind of hard to compare and discuss your point, unless you have some specific examples in mind.

A theocracy is a theocracy is a theocracy. All the same and all bad. A government free of state religion but allowing people to worship their Gods is perfect. If only theists would be happy with such abundance.

But the subject was state atheism, and you made a claim - and interestingly, you have not given any examples.

And mind you, not saying there is not any worse than the examples in the OP.  Not all theocracies are based on the same god, for example.

Just off hand, I myself cannot think of any.

[Rigon]

Historically, what examples of a Theocracy are you referencing, out of curiosity?any of them.   No point in discussing.  All bad.  End of discussion.

[Rigon]

Somalia, Sudan, Iran, the list goes on....try building a church in one of those places Tomas.  I help fund you to go there and see how much better they are than China when you go to promote christianity.

[zolace]

Actually, upon further though, I can think of examples that were better than those given for state atheism.But again, off hand, cannot think of any that were worse - if you think of any, please do post them here.

[noviapriani]

A theocracy may not be "worse" than a state atheism, but, the problem is, that in a theocracy the common people will suffer more at each other's hands than they do under state atheism. State atheism, once it has weeded out the clerical type, doesn't need to foment hatred. But a theocracy, in order to maintain power, must ALWAYS foment hatred against those who are different than the ruling religion, and moreover must push constant memes of intolerance and hatred to maintain the support of the populace.

Atheists generally don't go hating on religious. They may feel contempt for them, or pity, but not hatred. But religions hate each other, and killing in the name of a god justifies any behavior.

[zolace]

And I have not seen any benign examples of state atheism offered either.  Now, the comment about atheists don't go hating on religious - whether that is true of individuals, when given the power of the state as in the above examples, we see a different story.

[zolace]

Historically, what examples of a Theocracy are you referencing, out of curiosity?any of them.   No point in discussing.  All bad.  End of discussion.

It is really a shame you don't read what all goes on before posting.  Particularly with a short thread like this.  Do you really think I am questioning whether there are/were any theocracies as bad as the examples of state atheistic states? 

[Rigon]

And if youre looking for a bad example of a chrisitan theocracy....they abounded in the past.  Luckily we got rid of them because they involved way too much lopping off of heads and torture in the name of God.  The Vatican is the last christian theocracy standing....and we dont allow them to have knights any more.

[BowieMan]

I think State Atheism as as bad as an idea as a State Religion. It's always about forcing people into believing something, or actively not believing something - in the case of Atheism. But what remains is that the state dictates what has to be believed. And I think that is a wrong thing to do!

[zolace]

Somalia, Sudan, Iran, the list goes on....try building a church in one of those places Tomas.  I help fund you to go there and see how much better they are than China when you go to promote christianity.

By the way - bad as they are, not sure one can say they are much worse than some of the examples given for atheistic states.  And, not all Moslem theocracies have been as bad (maybe none today). 
Now, the Vatican - their history is at times nothing to write home to mother about and brag - but lets face it - they are certainly not currently as bad as any of the examples of the atheistic states.   But their power has been reduced a lot, politically.   Interestingly, a lot of their abuse comes from an interpretation of Matt 16 that is a bit off base (to say the least). 

[Rigon]

zolace,you can only think of one or two "aetheistic" governments and you come up with N Korea and China.....and the only reason NK is aetheistic is because they are a total dictatorship.  A dictator can only have one god, himself.   So your point isnt even about aetheistic government versus nonaetheistic. It is dictatorship versus theistic.   If you want a fair representative of a nondictatorship where the country is areligious.....look at Norway, denmark, sweden....you know, the happiest places on earth with the highest quality of living.   I think we must conclude that aetheism is the best given these data...no??     They have the lowest percentage of people on earth who believe in god and are routinely among the highest quality of living on the planet.

[zolace]

And if youre looking for a bad example of a chrisitan theocracy....they abounded in the past.  Luckily we got rid of them because they involved way too much lopping off of heads and torture in the name of God.  The Vatican is the last christian theocracy standing....and we dont allow them to have knights any more.

We have examples of bad theocracies - maybe they all were, but that was not shown.  And of course, not all theocracies are the same - they vary different in their theologies.  Or maybe for several, they have their bad times, and their good times.
Can't say any of the atheistic states, or the theocracies you listed, would be a good place to live   What about you?

[Rigon]

I read it fine.  That you dont like my responses is not evidence that Im just not reading you well enough.   The examples given certainly were not worse places than theistic states.  When you are in spurious relationship land and religion is your agenda, there is just no stopping you.