State Atheism

[zolace]

We've learned two things. NO matter how many times I answer zolace' question, I cannot answer it the way he desires.....and he will never answer my questions.  I am doing a study to see how many times he will keep asking the same answered question in order to avoid my questions. Thus far the conclusion is infinity.

Well, we will have to say that this is dishonest, if you cannot point to at least one place where you have pasted such:

First link you used to in your defense was as follows:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/


Now, if you think this link still supports your position on Norway - copy and paste the part that does here from that link.  If you have done that before in this thread, you should be able to point to it - especially given you say you have done so 'many times'.  Then I will glady apologize.

[Rigon]

We've learned two things. NO matter how many times I answer zolace' question, I cannot answer it the way he desires.....and he will never answer my questions.  I am doing a study to see how many times he will keep asking the same answered question in order to avoid my questions. Thus far the conclusion is infinity.

Well, we will have to say that this is dishonest, if you cannot point to at least one place where you have pasted such:

First link you used to in your defense was as follows:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/


Now, if you think this link still supports your position on Norway - copy and paste the part that does here from that link.  If you have done that before in this thread, you should be able to point to it - especially given you say you have done so 'many times'.  Then I will glady apologize.

I already did post it  many times.  I posted that they have freedom to choose and social cohesion...right out of the article.  Do you need me to help you find those words in the link to the article that you keep reposting ad-infinitum?  That's pretty sad.

 Read the  article THAT YOU KEEP POSTING OVER AND OVER AND OVER....freedom to choose and social cohesion are listed factors of happiness in Norway...as ONE example of the numerous countries I listed.   These are factors that make them happy as the surveys indicate.

[Rigon]

Other surveys show us that a clear majority of Norwegians have no religion or are atheist.  A mere 13% ever go to church.  I posted these facts in links as well.

Now lets put one together with the other and make two.  These are people with social cohesion and freedom as a factor in their happiness, and they by and large choose to be atheist, to not be religious and/or not go to church (by a great majority).  SO HOW IS THEY CAN BE SO HAPPY WITHOUT YOUR RELIGION ?

How can a society be happy if they freely chose to not worship or be religious?  How can a society score so highly in social cohesion if there is no church or religion? 

This is where you again do not answer my questions and obfuscate by again posting the article you claim I didn't cite that I again cited for the 50th time.

[umair127]

Starving people with no hope of a better life,; endless poverty until death.....?If this is "gods mysterious ways"  Perhaps "god" should just leave it alone.

[Rigon]

I think the point being is that religion does not boost happiness. Likewise, the lack of religion does not bring about despair.

http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/104/art%253A10.1007%252Fs10902-007-9045-6.pdf?auth66=1402614722_85f2838cc147c241238cbecfeeb91e82&ext=.pdf

Religiousness and happiness in three nations: a research note

[umair127]

Jesus Christ rigon!!!

Why do you keep entertaining him??
zolace and others of his ilk are irrelevant. Nothing  he says matters.  Not like he is going to post something that changes the future.

[zolace]

Apparently neither can you.  This thread is only 10 pages, and I only asked for one example. Sorry, but if you had c&p from that link, you would have pointed it out. Gleefully.

[Rigon]

Apparently neither can you.  This thread is only 10 pages, and I only asked for one example. Sorry, but if you had c&p from that link, you would have pointed it out. Gleefully.

sorry.  I gave you too many examples.  I should have stuck to just one instead of the many.

If you can forgive me for cutting and pasting many examples instead of one, maybe you can for once in your  life answer my question.

[Rigon]

These are people with social cohesion and freedom as a factor in their happiness (cut and paste from the link you keep harping about), and they by and large choose to be atheist, to not be religious and/or not go to church (by a great majority....also cut and paste from a number of links).  SO HOW IS IT THEY CAN BE SO HAPPY WITHOUT YOUR RELIGION ?

How can a society be happy if they freely chose to not worship or be religious?  How can a society score so highly in social cohesion if there is no church or religion?

[Rigon]

Jesus Christ rigon!!!

Why do you keep entertaining him??
zolace and others of his ilk are irrelevant. Nothing  he says matters.  Not like he is going to post something that changes the future.

I'm sorry  I'm doing a scientific study on displacement behavior.  zolace is a unique opportunity to study avoidance and obfuscation. He's a lab rat who keeps himself in his own cage. ....all meanings apply.

[umair127]

Jesus Christ rigon!!!

Why do you keep entertaining him??
zolace and others of his ilk are irrelevant. Nothing  he says matters.  Not like he is going to post something that changes the future.

I'm sorry  I'm doing a scientific study on displacement behavior.  zolace is a unique opportunity to study avoidance and obfuscation. He's a lab rat who keeps himself in his own cage. ....all meanings apply.

How is that working out for you?
You are aware that Einstein said the definition of insanity is reapeating the same experiment over and over again expecting a different result.
How many times have you repeated this experiment?

[Rigon]

Come on zolace...you can do it.  Ive made my case and you know my position well.  These Scandinavian countries (and New Zealand) are ranked as happy places because they score highly on social cohesion and personal freedom as the article you cite clearly says.  The data also show that they choose to be religious at a very low rate (with only 13% attending church and over 60% having no religion at all or atheist).  These are the most non-religious places on the planet.  These areas are also full of the most decent law abiding people on the planet as evidenced by the lowest crime rates.  I also posted these data.

How is it they have happiness and social cohesion, have high moral standards and don't commit crime, and no religion???   How can people who lack religion be so morally sound, law abiding and happy?   That is counter to the premise of your thread .

You have avoided any response for over 180 posts now. I respond to your every request. The fact you don't like my responses is another matter. I may not like your response to the questions above, but it would be nice if you had the balls to respond.

[zolace]

None from the first link that you provided, however.   So, then, you agree that the first link you provided does not support your case regarding atheism, Norway and happiness?


Not sure if it is reading issues with you, or a problem with honesty, or what, so I will again ask for your sake:

First link you used to in your defense was as follows:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/


Now, if you think this link still supports your position on Norway - copy and paste the part that does here from that link.  If you have done that before in this thread, you should be able to point to it - especially given you say you have done so 'many times'.  Then I will gladly apologize.

[zimmah]

zolace is just being zolace. The majority of people living in Haiti are Christian.
Since the 2010 earthquake, I wonder how many of them are "happy" today? Not that Hatians don't have their fair share of pagans, but.....


If the Christian God cared....?

believing in god does not make you immune to natural disasters, that's not how it works, that's not how any of this works.

[zolace]

As I await rigon to back up his claim here, I await you, umair, to back up yours.Am I sure both of you will continue to make excuses.

[zimmah]

Starving people with no hope of a better life,; endless poverty until death.....?If this is "gods mysterious ways"  Perhaps "god" should just leave it alone.

the classic logical fallacy of "if there is a god and if god cares, then why is there so much trouble in the world?".

It seems the logical thing to ask, but complaining about it will not get you anywhere, why don't you study for answers with an open mind?

Let's see what gods motives are, before we judge him, shall we?

Note: In case English is not your native language, the source i mentioned also provides translations in 100's of languages.

Here are some tings that may interest you, and answer the question you seem to be bothered by. I encourage you to study them with an open mind, as you seem to feel that there could be a god, but you don't seem to believe a loving god could allow all this suffering and injustice in the world. I can guarantee you though, god has a reason, and it's perfectly valid in my eyes.

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/good-news-from-god/why-god-allows-evil-and-suffering/
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/why-does-god-allow-suffering/
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201107/does-god-care/
http://www.jw.org/en/video-why-study-the-bible/

[umair127]

As I await rigon to back up his claim here, I await you, umair, to back up yours.Am I sure both of you will continue to make excuses.

Mark 16:17+     It's sometimes referred to as, The Great Commission, zolace.

All who are baptist/saved the signs will follow you.

You are baptist and 'saved", aren't you, ?  

So please explain why those "signs" don't follow you, or any other Christian?


Before your your single working brain cell  goes into melt-down and  you get your panties in a twist, it's a rhetorical question.

Those signs   have never followed any honest person, much less a Christian.

[Rigon]

As I await rigon to back up his claim here, I await you, umair, to back up yours.Am I sure both of you will continue to make excuses.

No problem Ill do it for the 60th time.

"countries that enjoy peace, freedom, good healthcare, quality education, a functioning political system and plenty of opportunity"

"Legatum scores the world’s countries on entrepreneurship, personal freedom, health, economy, social capital, education, safety & security"

"History of social cohesion"


Now pay close attention .  Their peace, their opportunity, their personal freedom, their social capital and social cohesion, their safe crime-free society.......DID NOT COME ABOUT WITH ANY RELATION TO RELIGION BECAUSE THEY ARE THE MOST ARELIGIOUS PLACE ON THE PLANET AND ALMOST NO ONE GOES TO CHURCH.

Clearly, the lack of religion does not have the effect that you assume.  They are the happiest place around even with no religion.  The lack of religion in a place like North Korea and their horrendous condition is NOT related to religion or a lack thereof.  It is a spurious relationship.

How do you reconcile your insinuated thread premise that an atheistic society is bad and the fact that the most atheistic societies in the world are among the best?

[Rigon]

come on zolace....grow some balls and try to respond.

How can a largely areligious and atheistic society have such high morals and do so well working together in social cohesion for the benefit of all in a safe crime-free society with happy people?   How can you explain that?

[Rigon]

Actually maybe I should back up.   If you have a point to make about state atheism , what is it?  Is your point that state atheism makes the state a bad place?  Or that atheists are bad?  What is your point?

Secondly, if your point is that atheists are "bad"  or in some ways or are "lesser" or "amoral" or whatever, then why are they not so in the countries I've mentioned and how can those countries be so successful, happy, safe, productive in the absence of religion?