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Author Topic: Mt Gox thinks it's the Fed. Freezes acc based on "tainted" coins. (unlocked now)  (Read 16606 times)
rjk
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March 26, 2012, 07:40:24 PM
 #101

Must be a great scam to consistently handle 90%+ of traded bitcoins Wink
No one said it's a scam the most I said was "dishonest and unethical business practices"

 you mean being a real company trying to respect local laws and world AML laws is "dishonest and unethical business practices" ?

 mtgox need to have bank accounts, to have banks accepting to open ( and not close later ) a bank account for a bitcoin exchange is real hard, and you have to respect many laws, including AML laws , which means requiring Id docs for any suspect account.


I explained what I mean like 6 times now. They marked my account nothing to do with AML, suspect linode hacked coins is their excuse. I think MtGox is going above and beyond and legal requirements for profit. I think they probably have a system to do this with up to hundreds of different variables to maximize profit by locking accounts most likely to not verify after deposits. That's what I think is dishonest and unethical. You can disagree with my opinion there as I have no evidence of that and never have claimed to.
So far, I would say that your tenacious refusal to submit the required info is suspicious enough to warrant an AML flag.

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Matthew N. Wright
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March 26, 2012, 07:53:45 PM
 #102

So far, I would say that your tenacious refusal to submit the required info is suspicious enough to warrant an AML flag.

Isn't it retarded? It's only the people who are constantly trying to hide that have something to hide.

They go around preaching their love of anonymity to everyone, then they want to use public services like everyone else and demand that they be allowed by their own rules.

 Roll Eyes

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March 26, 2012, 08:31:14 PM
 #103

So far, I would say that your tenacious refusal to submit the required info is suspicious enough to warrant an AML flag.

Isn't it retarded? It's only the people who are constantly trying to hide that have something to hide.

They go around preaching their love of anonymity to everyone, then they want to use public services like everyone else and demand that they be allowed by their own rules.

 Roll Eyes


+10 on both of the above!

Perhaps you'd like ICBIT better?
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Also, ICBIT is not a place for money laundering, so we are not going to enforce any AML measures like ID verification requirement.
  Cheesy

I just love that line Smiley

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March 26, 2012, 09:00:52 PM
 #104

Surely anyone who cares about privacy must be a criminal  Roll Eyes

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March 26, 2012, 09:16:23 PM
 #105

Surely anyone who cares about privacy must be a criminal  Roll Eyes

Or terrorist.

The sad thing is some people would be like "damn right".  The whole "you shouldn't care unless you got something to hide" nonsense.

Patriot Act = no problem.   You got nothing to hide unless you are terrorist.
Warrantless searches = no problem. You got nothing to hide unless you are a criminal.
Mt.Gox invasion of privacy = no problem.  You got nothing to hide unless you are a money launderer.

Anyone think that maybe some people don't want Mt.Gox to have their ID (likely in a pile of thousands of other ID poorly protected).  That an image which will give any identity thief an erection.  Remember this is the company too stupid to salt user passwords.  I mean it is understandable since per user salting was only invented in 2010 ... er wait no it wasn't it has been around since the 1960s.
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March 26, 2012, 09:40:58 PM
 #106

I hope every customer in the Bitcoin forums see that you have a hidden dark list and that you are using it to seize coins at your will.

- Where can we check that tainted list? --> no answer
- How many % tainted coins makes your account useless? --> no answer
- Where can we download an easy software to check our addresses in order to grant use your exchanger in a secure way --> no answer
- What can a user do if finds some tainted coins in his wallet? --> no answer

You are only spreading fear and moving away new users from you and from our currency.

We are trying to have the law enforcement agencies contacting us working with the "Bitcoin Police" (which is the most exchange-neutral entity working toward a legal bitcoin), and offload the tainted coin verification to them. It'd work a bit differently (no way for us to know which coins are tainted until they hit us) but it'd also allow other people to be part of the process easily and know they received tainted coins before spreading these.


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March 26, 2012, 10:07:53 PM
 #107

there is no such thing as tainted coins, there are people who do not take sufficient care of their private keys & their are possible crimes committed by others to access those private keys but all coins are equal, the whole concept of tainted coins is both wrong & unworkable - it is just your (or any other make up your own rules) blacklist of what you may feel like impounding for any reason you happen to decide, all coins are equal & any attempt to second class some will fail, just like a gram of gold that may have been obtained in some manner that you may suspect is dodgy, once it is melted down & mixed with kilos of other gold & moved around in a non regulated market then it can not be blocked - just try & get being an exchange right & leave trying to be the FBI up to what a court that you are under the jurisdiction of orders you to do, if one ever does that is

just my 2c

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March 26, 2012, 10:12:17 PM
 #108

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Surely anyone who cares about privacy must be a criminal  Roll Eyes

Ah. No. Definitely not.

I have my questions when someone knows there is a presumed lack of privacy and then objects vehemently when the lack of privacy is experienced. If the rules change after the deal is made, well...I certainly understand objections!

I have my questions in most business transactions when one party wishes to remain anonymous. While in some cases I might do business anonymously, those cases are fewer than those in which I'd like to know whom it is I'm to hold responsible for the other side of the transaction.

If I ran a service that had a big potential for fraud, and I had no other way to protect myself from the other party, I'd have to insist on knowing who they are. I guess the bigger the biz, the more rote and bureaucratic it winds up being. Sad


And - MagicalTux: best to have everyone in on policing coins, indeed. best to only act when you have public consensus or governmental compulsion. It's not going to do anyone any good if you police the coins and decide when to lock accounts, certainly not with your apparent marketshare. It's a recipe for bad PR at the least, and lawsuits in due course.

Edit: removed incorrect citation for the quote above

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March 26, 2012, 10:56:08 PM
 #109

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We are trying to have the law enforcement agencies contacting us working with the "Bitcoin Police"

This is possibly the most retarded thing I read on this forum. And just for the record, there is a lot of retarded shit here.


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Polvos
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March 26, 2012, 10:57:27 PM
 #110

Yep, quite retarded for me too   Undecided

sounded like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYrlj9VE2fg

rjk
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1ngldh


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March 27, 2012, 01:24:50 AM
 #111

Quote
We are trying to have the law enforcement agencies contacting us working with the "Bitcoin Police"

This is possibly the most retarded thing I read on this forum. And just for the record, there is a lot of retarded shit here.


Actually, offloading accountability to a third party sounds pretty good to me.

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March 27, 2012, 01:47:24 AM
 #112

Quote
We are trying to have the law enforcement agencies contacting us working with the "Bitcoin Police"
This is possibly the most retarded thing I read on this forum. And just for the record, there is a lot of retarded shit here.

Well, which is more retarded, the community going to, and expecting MtGox to police coins, or MtGox going to the community for policing and telling law enforcement they must do the same?

Seems a no brainer to me.

If i ran Mt.Gox, I'd rather wash my hands of the whole notion. Who in their right mind wants to get any more involved with money laundering investigations than necessary? FFS, the BANKS are the ones who fight those regulations the most. Money laundering is a new (and victimless) crime. Why should an exchange have to be the money cops? That is the retarded shit

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March 27, 2012, 02:39:59 AM
 #113

Quote
We are trying to have the law enforcement agencies contacting us working with the "Bitcoin Police"
This is possibly the most retarded thing I read on this forum. And just for the record, there is a lot of retarded shit here.

Well, which is more retarded, the community going to, and expecting MtGox to police coins, or MtGox going to the community for policing and telling law enforcement they must do the same?

Seems a no brainer to me.

If i ran Mt.Gox, I'd rather wash my hands of the whole notion. Who in their right mind wants to get any more involved with money laundering investigations than necessary? FFS, the BANKS are the ones who fight those regulations the most. Money laundering is a new (and victimless) crime. Why should an exchange have to be the money cops? That is the retarded shit

Though I don't think the use of the term "retarded shit" lends veritability to your argument, I concur with your thesis.

Not only should MtGox not be responsible for this; they shouldn't attempt to do it either. This is essentially akin to the Eligius scandal when LukeJr killed off an alt-chain. (which I still maintain he should have been banned for) Self-appointed "justiciars" are naught more than somewhat conceited people who, through luck, skill, or otherwise, managed to attain more power than they can deal with. Now, MagicalTux has in general been reasonably responsive and never shown any indication of malevolent intent. Tux and Gox, please, for yourselves and the community, give this ill-fated attempt up now. Climb out of the pit before the hole fills in. There are many other ways to ensure legal compliance than attempting to play law enforcement.

I verily hope you will turn around before the road gets too steep, but if you do not, the community will just find another exchange. Remember back to high school biology - natural selection stills applies. This is not a tolerant climate for mistakes. Like it or not, c'est la vie.

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March 27, 2012, 03:56:39 AM
 #114

agreed (and you'll notice above, it was not my original term, it was borrowed from a post above)

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March 27, 2012, 09:05:15 AM
 #115

any attempt to second class some will fail

It depends on what do you consider fail. They've managed to scam a bunch of coins this way, so it's being profitable thus far.

How much this whole policy will damage their business... we will see. So far, it looks like most people don't care.

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March 27, 2012, 01:20:33 PM
 #116

There is no "Bitcoin Police". Jesus.

Are you people from like, the future?

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March 27, 2012, 01:31:56 PM
 #117

a future where MtGox isn't the Bitcoin Police and the community comes to a consensus as how we police ourselves - before someone else does.

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March 27, 2012, 02:15:42 PM
 #118

a future where MtGox isn't the Bitcoin Police and the community comes to a consensus as how we police ourselves - before someone else does.


There already is such a consensus. Bitcoins should be as interchangeable as gold coins. If anything, we need more/better anonymity services, so that even an exchange performing due dilligence can't trace them. Today it's AML, tomorrow who knows.
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March 27, 2012, 03:01:02 PM
 #119

The consensus is that there is not, never will be and never could be any "Bitcoin Police" and also that the hicks who think in these terms but aren't self-aware enough of their mental issues to stick with fiat currency only should be ostracised.

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March 27, 2012, 03:33:23 PM
 #120

The consensus is that there is not, never will be and never could be any "Bitcoin Police" and also that the hicks who think in these terms but aren't self-aware enough of their mental issues to stick with fiat currency only should be ostracised.
The "bitcoin police" idea isn't law enforcement, and can't bring anyone to justice. What they do is provide a service to LE and to businesses like mtgox, offloading the responsibility of tracking stolen property to them as a third party, and providing a service to the LE that are too incompetent to do themselves, although this might change eventually. It is a win for all involved parties, and I don't understand your extreme reaction.

The name is somewhat inaccurate, but that could be changed.

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