Selfless love...

[the joint]

Well, plenty of nonsense gets published in books. So I wouldn't take that as fact.

I agree completely.  However Christopher Langan has a tested IQ above 180 (he broke the ceiling on a normed IQ test administered by 20/20, the researcher was quoted to say that he's never seen anybody ever test so high in his 25 years of psychometric testing; it was published in a Popular Science magazine article called "Smartest Man in America").  And while Langan seems like kind of a dick, and while a high IQ means nothing in terms of fabricating information, my guess is that he didn't need to make up a region of the brain just to add an extra line to a 100 page book.

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[the joint]

Well, would you maintain this compassion even if someone became a murderer?

Yes, and I have.  I've worked with murderers at my job.

[bb113]

Well, plenty of nonsense gets published in books. So I wouldn't take that as fact.

I agree completely.  However Christopher Langan has a tested IQ above 180 (he broke the ceiling on a normed IQ test administered by 20/20, the researcher was quoted to say that he's never seen anybody ever test so high in his 25 years of psychometric testing; it was published in a Popular Science magazine article called "Smartest Man in America").  And while Langan seems like kind of a dick, and while a high IQ means nothing in terms of fabricating information, my guess is that he didn't need to make up a region of the brain just to add an extra line to a 100 page book.

Right, but the research may be flawed to begin with, the uncertainty and alternative interpretations ignored, conclusions exaggerated, etc. This is not uncommon. In fact it is pretty much expected. Due to selection and publication bias, I say there is 80% chance any given published result is a false positive. This doesn't make it uninteresting, just inconclusive. I would like to look at the research he is referring to though. I am sure meditation does have some effect on brain function.

[MatthewLM]

Well, would you maintain this compassion even if someone became a murderer?

Yes, and I have.  I've worked with murderers at my job.

And would you say this type of love is an end in itself, inherent to oneself, or is it chosen as a means?

[the joint]

Well, plenty of nonsense gets published in books. So I wouldn't take that as fact.

I agree completely.  However Christopher Langan has a tested IQ above 180 (he broke the ceiling on a normed IQ test administered by 20/20, the researcher was quoted to say that he's never seen anybody ever test so high in his 25 years of psychometric testing; it was published in a Popular Science magazine article called "Smartest Man in America").  And while Langan seems like kind of a dick, and while a high IQ means nothing in terms of fabricating information, my guess is that he didn't need to make up a region of the brain just to add an extra line to a 100 page book.

Right, but the research may be flawed to begin with, the uncertainty and alternative interpretations ignored, conclusions exaggerated, etc. This is not uncommon. In fact it is pretty much expected. Due to selection and publication bias, I say there is 80% chance any given published result is a false positive. This doesn't make it uninteresting, just inconclusive. I would like to look at the research he is referring to though. I am sure meditation does have some effect on brain function.

PET scans show the dopamine production region lit up like a lightbulb in meditation.

[the joint]

Well, would you maintain this compassion even if someone became a murderer?

Yes, and I have.  I've worked with murderers at my job.

And would you say this type of love is an end in itself, inherent to oneself, or is it chosen as a means?

It's an end in itself.  It can be described as "chosen" if one has chosen/intended to systematically dismantle the ego to let love/compassion shine through.  But really, the love and compassion is always there.  It's kind of like the sun on a cloudy day....love/compassion is the sun and all the shit the ego identifies with are the clouds.  People naturally become more loving and compassionate when their ego is passive.

[MatthewLM]

I do think there is an inherent compassion with human beings that causes as pain at other's suffering. I do think it does become over-rided by over factors (and in some cases that may be a good thing) but it is still there.

[bb113]

Well, plenty of nonsense gets published in books. So I wouldn't take that as fact.

I agree completely.  However Christopher Langan has a tested IQ above 180 (he broke the ceiling on a normed IQ test administered by 20/20, the researcher was quoted to say that he's never seen anybody ever test so high in his 25 years of psychometric testing; it was published in a Popular Science magazine article called "Smartest Man in America").  And while Langan seems like kind of a dick, and while a high IQ means nothing in terms of fabricating information, my guess is that he didn't need to make up a region of the brain just to add an extra line to a 100 page book.

Right, but the research may be flawed to begin with, the uncertainty and alternative interpretations ignored, conclusions exaggerated, etc. This is not uncommon. In fact it is pretty much expected. Due to selection and publication bias, I say there is 80% chance any given published result is a false positive. This doesn't make it uninteresting, just inconclusive. I would like to look at the research he is referring to though. I am sure meditation does have some effect on brain function.

PET scans show the dopamine production region lit up like a lightbulb in meditation.

Are you sure this was not a dopamine receiving area? Dopamine production occurs in the VTA (ventral tegmental area) and I don't really see any PET studies of this during meditation, although I may have missed it.

[the joint]

Well, plenty of nonsense gets published in books. So I wouldn't take that as fact.

I agree completely.  However Christopher Langan has a tested IQ above 180 (he broke the ceiling on a normed IQ test administered by 20/20, the researcher was quoted to say that he's never seen anybody ever test so high in his 25 years of psychometric testing; it was published in a Popular Science magazine article called "Smartest Man in America").  And while Langan seems like kind of a dick, and while a high IQ means nothing in terms of fabricating information, my guess is that he didn't need to make up a region of the brain just to add an extra line to a 100 page book.

Right, but the research may be flawed to begin with, the uncertainty and alternative interpretations ignored, conclusions exaggerated, etc. This is not uncommon. In fact it is pretty much expected. Due to selection and publication bias, I say there is 80% chance any given published result is a false positive. This doesn't make it uninteresting, just inconclusive. I would like to look at the research he is referring to though. I am sure meditation does have some effect on brain function.

PET scans show the dopamine production region lit up like a lightbulb in meditation.

Are you sure this was not a dopamine receiving area? Dopamine production occurs in the VTA (ventral tegmental area) and I don't really see any PET studies of this during meditation, although I may have missed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vefh5e05d7A

[bb113]

Yea he says production, but that is not where dopamine is produced. Maybe it is a translation problem. Anyway I can't find the actual data anywhere, just narratives describing it. This makes it pretty useless.

[the joint]

Yea he says production, but that is not where dopamine is produced. Maybe it is a translation problem. Anyway I can't find the actual data anywhere, just narratives describing it. This makes it pretty useless.

Thanks!  That's good to know.  I'll learn more about it.