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Author Topic: reason of price drop : Chinese exchanges dont have proof of 100% reserve  (Read 5083 times)
p2pbucks (OP)
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August 16, 2014, 02:41:48 AM
Last edit: August 16, 2014, 02:52:23 AM by p2pbucks
 #1

Hey guys,

I wrote an article about "Fraudulent trading in Chinese exchanges " on 8/14 < http://weibo.com/3487056872/BifU0r6re > which gained tons of replies from chinese bitcoin community.

In short : Now Chinese exchanges really have big portion on whole global trading volume (about 80%). But they don't have proof of  100% reserve.As matter of fact , they are faking many "virtual bitcoins" in their trading system and selling them to players, that's the main reason why bitcoin price is keep dropping like a stone.

We need to boycott these exchanges. Any ideas ?

Bitcoin Exchanges Trading Volume Distribution(24hr)


ref:
Pie chart:  http://p2pbucks.com/altcoin/pie.php
Fraudulent trading in Chinese exchanges:  http://p2pbucks.com/?p=12021
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August 16, 2014, 02:49:01 AM
 #2

Since when the facts are kwown? Anything that correlates the fall time(around august 12) to the alleged lack of funds of the chinese exchanges?

And I cant see your article, when I go to the page, I got nothing but a blank page Sad

Hope we don't see a Gox with steroids event cause of the chinese exchanges
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August 16, 2014, 02:54:37 AM
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Too bad I dont read chinese, but wont it eventually work its way out, when they can move those coins to another exchange? im assuming that they can trade and sell amongst themselves, but once it hits the blockchain it will be seen as a double spend or something?

I dont know how to prevent it. We couldn't prevent mt.gox and we knew something was fishy with them for months. I guess what someone can do is try to move their coins from the chinese exchanges to bitstamp and see what happens. or do I have it wrong?
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August 16, 2014, 02:56:08 AM
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So you are saying that the chinese exchanges are selling coins that they do not have, correct?
p2pbucks (OP)
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August 16, 2014, 03:01:08 AM
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So you are saying that the chinese exchanges are selling coins that they do not have, correct?

Yes, that's what i mean . (Really hope you can read chinese . )
We call for that many times  , but many of them still refuse to show their proof of reserves .
Now we try to persuade users to withdraw from these exchanges , but i doubt whether it's working
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August 16, 2014, 03:02:14 AM
 #6

 If people thought that chinese exchanges were selling them non-existent coins, the way to quickly find out if its true or not is for people to pull their BTC off of the exchanges and see if all the sudden they run into "technical difficulties" and stop withdrawls.

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p2pbucks (OP)
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August 16, 2014, 03:07:25 AM
Last edit: August 16, 2014, 03:24:06 AM by p2pbucks
 #7

If people thought that chinese exchanges were selling them non-existent coins, the way to quickly find out if its true or not is for people to pull their BTC off of the exchanges and see if all the sudden they run into "technical difficulties" and stop withdrawls.

Why they reluctant to withdraw ? because the situation is some of them provide interest of storing bitcoins by lending and borrowing (or some similar   financial product )on their platform . This strategy really works on many greedy guys  .

AND , many Chinese players are new to crypto they don't know how to withdraw bitcoins to onchain-wallet ( blockchain.info ,qt .etc) ,onchain-wallets are too difficult for them . So , they put their bitcoins on trading platform .  I know it sounds ridiculous but it's true .
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August 16, 2014, 03:13:25 AM
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If people thought that chinese exchanges were selling them non-existent coins, the way to quickly find out if its true or not is for people to pull their BTC off of the exchanges and see if all the sudden they run into "technical difficulties" and stop withdrawls.

Why they reluctant to withdraw ? because the situation is some of them provide interest of storing bitcoins by lending and borrowing (or some similar  finance product )on their platform . This strategy really works on many greedy guys  .

Does Okcoin or huobi offer interest? (I doubt it) If not, then it must just be some smaller exchanges which would count for only very little fake trades.

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p2pbucks (OP)
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August 16, 2014, 03:15:39 AM
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If people thought that chinese exchanges were selling them non-existent coins, the way to quickly find out if its true or not is for people to pull their BTC off of the exchanges and see if all the sudden they run into "technical difficulties" and stop withdrawls.

Why they reluctant to withdraw ? because the situation is some of them provide interest of storing bitcoins by lending and borrowing (or some similar  finance product )on their platform . This strategy really works on many greedy guys  .

Does Okcoin or huobi offer interest? (I doubt it) If not, then it must just be some smaller exchanges which would count for only very little fake trades.

Yes , they offer interest . OK has bishengbi project , huobi has bitvc.com
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August 16, 2014, 03:20:50 AM
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If people thought that chinese exchanges were selling them non-existent coins, the way to quickly find out if its true or not is for people to pull their BTC off of the exchanges and see if all the sudden they run into "technical difficulties" and stop withdrawls.

Why they reluctant to withdraw ? because the situation is some of them provide interest of storing bitcoins by lending and borrowing (or some similar  finance product )on their platform . This strategy really works on many greedy guys  .

Does Okcoin or huobi offer interest? (I doubt it) If not, then it must just be some smaller exchanges which would count for only very little fake trades.

Yes , they offer interest . OK has bishengbi project , huobi has bitvc.com

Hm... Can you show me the link (so I can have it translated online) where okcoin and huobi state that their deposits (on their exchange) are given interest? I also though Huobi was a fee-free exchange, so I have no idea how they could possibly afford that.

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August 16, 2014, 03:23:02 AM
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If people thought that chinese exchanges were selling them non-existent coins, the way to quickly find out if its true or not is for people to pull their BTC off of the exchanges and see if all the sudden they run into "technical difficulties" and stop withdrawls.

Why they reluctant to withdraw ? because the situation is some of them provide interest of storing bitcoins by lending and borrowing (or some similar  finance product )on their platform . This strategy really works on many greedy guys  .

Does Okcoin or huobi offer interest? (I doubt it) If not, then it must just be some smaller exchanges which would count for only very little fake trades.

Yes , they offer interest . OK has bishengbi project , huobi has bitvc.com

Hm... Can you show me the link (so I can have it translated online) where okcoin and huobi state that their deposits (on their exchange) are given interest? I also though Huobi was a fee-free exchange, so I have no idea how they could possibly afford that.

I thought Huobi does charge a fee for shorting.
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August 16, 2014, 03:25:28 AM
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Faking trading volume is one thing and "virtual bitcoins" being bought by actual users is another. I hope.
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August 16, 2014, 03:25:52 AM
Last edit: August 16, 2014, 03:47:56 AM by haploid23
 #13

If people thought that chinese exchanges were selling them non-existent coins, the way to quickly find out if its true or not is for people to pull their BTC off of the exchanges and see if all the sudden they run into "technical difficulties" and stop withdrawls.

Why they reluctant to withdraw ? because the situation is some of them provide interest of storing bitcoins by lending and borrowing (or some similar   financial product )on their platform . This strategy really works on many greedy guys  .

AND , many Chinese players are new to crypto they don't know how to withdraw bitcoins to onchain-wallet ( blockchain.info ,qt .etc) ,onchain-wallets are too difficult for them . So , they put their bitcoins on trading platform .  I know it sounds ridiculous but it's true .

Even if they offer interest, you withdraw the coins, then within a few minutes, deposit back. Those few minutes that the coins are off the exchange is meaningless in terms of lost interest, however it does prove that they have the coins. Of course, everyone would have to do it relatively the same time for this to actulally work.

Can't read Chinese either, and google translate sucks. So how did you come to the conclusion that they're trading with coins they don't have?

p2pbucks (OP)
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August 16, 2014, 03:37:43 AM
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Even if they offer interest, you with draw the coins, then within a few minutes, deposit back. Those few minutes that the coins are off the exchange is meaningless in terms of lost interest, however it does prove that they have the coins. Of course, everyone would have to do it relatively the same time for this to actulally work.
Can't read Chinese either, and google translate sucks. So how did you come to the conclusion that they're trading with coins they don't have?

It should be a large amount withdraw at the same time  ,  a small amount of withdrawing doesn't make sense.

Can't read Chinese either, and google translate sucks. So how did you come to the conclusion that they're trading with coins they don't have?

They must provide proof of 100% reserve .

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August 16, 2014, 03:42:57 AM
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So you are saying that the chinese exchanges are selling coins that they do not have, correct?

Yes, that's what i mean . (Really hope you can read chinese . )
We call for that many times  , but many of them still refuse to show their proof of reserves .
Now we try to persuade users to withdraw from these exchanges , but i doubt whether it's working
Even they show their proof of reserves, it is still difficult for us to see how many deposit and withdrawal, whether they match! If they plan to do something wrong, they will find a way. So we‘d better go away from this type of exchange.
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August 16, 2014, 03:50:13 AM
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They must provide proof of 100% reserve .

Yes but not showing how much they have in their internal wallets doesn't mean they don't have it. So did you come to the conclusion that they're giving out "fake" btc just because they don't publicly show their wallets?

Again, I can't read Chinese, so it would be nice if you also provided an English synopsis to the article. Or maybe someone can translate (better than google).

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August 16, 2014, 03:56:37 AM
 #17

I am on record going months back saying that I think the Chinese exchanges are cheating, creating fake sells and fake volumes, and operating on bitcoins (and litecoins) that don't exist and it was just a matter of time before they got slammed and a crash followed. 

I think it can get much worse than this too.   

p2pbucks (OP)
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August 16, 2014, 04:12:25 AM
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Yes but not showing how much they have in their internal wallets doesn't mean they don't have it. So did you come to the conclusion that they're giving out "fake" btc just because they don't publicly show their wallets?

To get 100% complete convincing proof you must investigate their backend servers and databases .
But look at the bitcoin volume chart in 24hr & litecoin trading volume in recent three days , these exchanges are highly suspicious .
And they refuse to provide proof of reserve even many chinese users ask them to. (check weibo in first post)
So what we should do ? Huh

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August 16, 2014, 04:31:44 AM
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If people thought that chinese exchanges were selling them non-existent coins, the way to quickly find out if its true or not is for people to pull their BTC off of the exchanges and see if all the sudden they run into "technical difficulties" and stop withdrawls.

Why they reluctant to withdraw ? because the situation is some of them provide interest of storing bitcoins by lending and borrowing (or some similar   financial product )on their platform . This strategy really works on many greedy guys  .

AND , many Chinese players are new to crypto they don't know how to withdraw bitcoins to onchain-wallet ( blockchain.info ,qt .etc) ,onchain-wallets are too difficult for them . So , they put their bitcoins on trading platform .  I know it sounds ridiculous but it's true .

Once you get into lending and borrowing you fabricate coin that isn't there, just the same as a bank lends and borrows money that doesn't exist.

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August 16, 2014, 04:37:27 AM
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So you are saying that the chinese exchanges are selling coins that they do not have, correct?

If this is true, they are doing quite well considering the price has dropped quite a bit.

They can buy back the coin at lower or possibly much lower price.

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