It costs $0.09 cents to send $0.24 cents of Bitcoin? Really?

[SomethingElse]

The OP has correctly pointed out a flaw in Bitcoin. 

As a method of transferring money, it is not very flexible towards small amounts.  This is very unfortunate because small amounts make up a huge amount of transactions.  There is a whole market out there that bitcoin is immediately excluded from because it is not technologically advanced enough or designed well enough to be able to efficiently send small amounts. 

This is even more ridiculous when considering all the computers that are working towards mining, which in theory is suppose to mean supporting the network and processing transactions, but in reality because of the selfishness and greed of miners turns into actually ignoring transactions that don't have big enough fees attached to them. 

Bitcoin is a great system but also hasn't been designed perfectly. 

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[QuestionAuthority]

The OP has correctly pointed out a flaw in Bitcoin. 

As a method of transferring money, it is not very flexible towards small amounts.  This is very unfortunate because small amounts make up a huge amount of transactions.  There is a whole market out there that bitcoin is immediately excluded from because it is not technologically advanced enough or designed well enough to be able to efficiently send small amounts. 

This is even more ridiculous when considering all the computers that are working towards mining, which in theory is suppose to mean supporting the network and processing transactions, but in reality because of the selfishness and greed of miners turns into actually ignoring transactions that don't have big enough fees attached to them. 

Bitcoin is a great system but also hasn't been designed perfectly. 

http://dcmagnates.com/coinbase-out-to-solve-micro-payments-with-transactionless-transfers/

[Nagle]

http://dcmagnates.com/coinbase-out-to-solve-micro-payments-with-transactionless-transfers/

If it doesn't go out to the blockchain, it's a centralized system. We already have those.

[Mirdude]

That's crazy, but small payments do cost a lot to send.

[SomethingElse]

The OP has correctly pointed out a flaw in Bitcoin. 

As a method of transferring money, it is not very flexible towards small amounts.  This is very unfortunate because small amounts make up a huge amount of transactions.  There is a whole market out there that bitcoin is immediately excluded from because it is not technologically advanced enough or designed well enough to be able to efficiently send small amounts. 

This is even more ridiculous when considering all the computers that are working towards mining, which in theory is suppose to mean supporting the network and processing transactions, but in reality because of the selfishness and greed of miners turns into actually ignoring transactions that don't have big enough fees attached to them. 

Bitcoin is a great system but also hasn't been designed perfectly. 

http://dcmagnates.com/coinbase-out-to-solve-micro-payments-with-transactionless-transfers/

Right, Coinbase can definitely solve this problem and so can Bitpay.  If the major players team together and allow cross-micro-transactions than it is a solution.  It won't be true decentralization, but bitcoin itself will always be decentralized even if the players on top of it aren't.  Utlimately, is the Coinbase/Bitpay transactions in their own system an acceptable solution?

[betterangels]

The OP has correctly pointed out a flaw in Bitcoin. 

As a method of transferring money, it is not very flexible towards small amounts.  This is very unfortunate because small amounts make up a huge amount of transactions.  There is a whole market out there that bitcoin is immediately excluded from because it is not technologically advanced enough or designed well enough to be able to efficiently send small amounts. 

This is even more ridiculous when considering all the computers that are working towards mining, which in theory is suppose to mean supporting the network and processing transactions, but in reality because of the selfishness and greed of miners turns into actually ignoring transactions that don't have big enough fees attached to them. 

Bitcoin is a great system but also hasn't been designed perfectly. 

http://dcmagnates.com/coinbase-out-to-solve-micro-payments-with-transactionless-transfers/

Right, Coinbase can definitely solve this problem and so can Bitpay.  If the major players team together and allow cross-micro-transactions than it is a solution.  It won't be true decentralization, but bitcoin itself will always be decentralized even if the players on top of it aren't.  Utlimately, is the Coinbase/Bitpay transactions in their own system an acceptable solution?

i'm paying 0.0001 btc x tx

[QuestionAuthority]

The OP has correctly pointed out a flaw in Bitcoin. 

As a method of transferring money, it is not very flexible towards small amounts.  This is very unfortunate because small amounts make up a huge amount of transactions.  There is a whole market out there that bitcoin is immediately excluded from because it is not technologically advanced enough or designed well enough to be able to efficiently send small amounts. 

This is even more ridiculous when considering all the computers that are working towards mining, which in theory is suppose to mean supporting the network and processing transactions, but in reality because of the selfishness and greed of miners turns into actually ignoring transactions that don't have big enough fees attached to them. 

Bitcoin is a great system but also hasn't been designed perfectly. 

http://dcmagnates.com/coinbase-out-to-solve-micro-payments-with-transactionless-transfers/

Right, Coinbase can definitely solve this problem and so can Bitpay.  If the major players team together and allow cross-micro-transactions than it is a solution.  It won't be true decentralization, but bitcoin itself will always be decentralized even if the players on top of it aren't.  Utlimately, is the Coinbase/Bitpay transactions in their own system an acceptable solution?

Of course it's acceptable. We aren't going to take over the world with micro-payments. If I want to tip you 25 cents because I liked your post I'm not helping crush big banks. The big banking establishments don't want my tiny transaction either. This is a solution to a problem that Bitcoin wasn't designed to handle. Clearly Bitcoin isn't for micro or nano payments.

[webbrowser]

Clearly, the current bitcoin isn't suitable for micro transactions. I think the network just can't handle the transaction volume, and having fees is one way of discouraging dust transactions.

The question is, should it?  And if so, why not fix it?

[SomethingElse]

The OP has correctly pointed out a flaw in Bitcoin. 

As a method of transferring money, it is not very flexible towards small amounts.  This is very unfortunate because small amounts make up a huge amount of transactions.  There is a whole market out there that bitcoin is immediately excluded from because it is not technologically advanced enough or designed well enough to be able to efficiently send small amounts. 

This is even more ridiculous when considering all the computers that are working towards mining, which in theory is suppose to mean supporting the network and processing transactions, but in reality because of the selfishness and greed of miners turns into actually ignoring transactions that don't have big enough fees attached to them. 

Bitcoin is a great system but also hasn't been designed perfectly. 

http://dcmagnates.com/coinbase-out-to-solve-micro-payments-with-transactionless-transfers/

Right, Coinbase can definitely solve this problem and so can Bitpay.  If the major players team together and allow cross-micro-transactions than it is a solution.  It won't be true decentralization, but bitcoin itself will always be decentralized even if the players on top of it aren't.  Utlimately, is the Coinbase/Bitpay transactions in their own system an acceptable solution?

Of course it's acceptable. We aren't going to take over the world with micro-payments. If I want to tip you 25 cents because I liked your post I'm not helping crush big banks. The big banking establishments don't want my tiny transaction either. This is a solution to a problem that Bitcoin wasn't designed to handle. Clearly Bitcoin isn't for micro or nano payments.

It's electronic and digital. In theory processing a $.0001 transaction should be as difficult as processing a $1,000,000,000 transaction. I think it's a terrible shame bitcoin wasn't designed to handle any and everything.

I personally believe bitcoin won't take over the world without micro payments.  Because it can't that means a theoretical person in the morning will have to leave his house with two forms of cash, bitcoin for big, another for small. That is just really inefficient and silly.  Why would a payment system that wants to be revolutionary also be so limited?

[inBitweTrust]

I personally believe bitcoin won't take over the world without micro payments.  Because it can't that means a theoretical person in the morning will have to leave his house with two forms of cash, bitcoin for big, another for small. That is just really inefficient and silly.  Why would a payment system that wants to be revolutionary also be so limited?

Bitcoin is to HTTP as Payment Channels are to CSS/Javascript/PHP. Other technologies are being scaffolded upon bitcoin. There is too much momentum behind bitcoin so it is unlikely that any alt will be able to compete for the top tier unit of account.

Users can already make micro-payments for no charge with bitcoin from multiple sources.

 In the future there will be ways of doing so in a decentralized and anonymous manner. Their is nothing technically limiting this, the only reason it isn't being implemented now is because their isn't a large demand for it. To the end user it will all simply be a Bitcoin payment and they won't need to know the complex relationship between the bitcoin core protocol and a micro payment  treechain/sidechain channel .

The concerns in this thread that assume some intrinsic flaw within bitcoin as it cannot support micro payments are unfounded. It is better that high velocity micro transactions are handled within a sidechain/treechain or third party. Have you guys considered the strain on the network and blockchain bloat if trillions of 10 penny transactions were hitting the blockchain per day?

[QuestionAuthority]

The OP has correctly pointed out a flaw in Bitcoin. 

As a method of transferring money, it is not very flexible towards small amounts.  This is very unfortunate because small amounts make up a huge amount of transactions.  There is a whole market out there that bitcoin is immediately excluded from because it is not technologically advanced enough or designed well enough to be able to efficiently send small amounts. 

This is even more ridiculous when considering all the computers that are working towards mining, which in theory is suppose to mean supporting the network and processing transactions, but in reality because of the selfishness and greed of miners turns into actually ignoring transactions that don't have big enough fees attached to them. 

Bitcoin is a great system but also hasn't been designed perfectly. 

http://dcmagnates.com/coinbase-out-to-solve-micro-payments-with-transactionless-transfers/

Right, Coinbase can definitely solve this problem and so can Bitpay.  If the major players team together and allow cross-micro-transactions than it is a solution.  It won't be true decentralization, but bitcoin itself will always be decentralized even if the players on top of it aren't.  Utlimately, is the Coinbase/Bitpay transactions in their own system an acceptable solution?

Of course it's acceptable. We aren't going to take over the world with micro-payments. If I want to tip you 25 cents because I liked your post I'm not helping crush big banks. The big banking establishments don't want my tiny transaction either. This is a solution to a problem that Bitcoin wasn't designed to handle. Clearly Bitcoin isn't for micro or nano payments.

It's electronic and digital. In theory processing a $.0001 transaction should be as difficult as processing a $1,000,000,000 transaction. I think it's a terrible shame bitcoin wasn't designed to handle any and everything.

I personally believe bitcoin won't take over the world without micro payments.  Because it can't that means a theoretical person in the morning will have to leave his house with two forms of cash, bitcoin for big, another for small. That is just really inefficient and silly.  Why would a payment system that wants to be revolutionary also be so limited?

I hear you. I'm not convinced that Bitcoin needs to or should be the only method of exchange. If Bitcoin was adopted by every country in the world gold and silver will still exist and be traded as currency.

I believe you will only need to leave your house with one electronic device and it will solve all of your financial demands. I used to leave my house with a wallet full of cards. My ATM card, credit cards, store discount cards, checks and cash all needed to be available if I needed them. If I stopped by ACE Hardware on the way home I need to have my ACE Rewards card with me. Now there's a phone app called Key Ring that holds all of my cards and it can be scanned at the register. Technology will solve this problem eventually.

Finally, micro-payments can be made with Bitcoin. They just aren't cost effective. So if you still want to make them you can. Nano-payments (or dust transactions) cannot currently be made with Bitcoin. If the need arises that feature could be switched back on but I seriously doubt it ever will be.

All things in life have limitations but some of us want some things to be all encompassing. Unfortunately, life just doesn't work that way.

[cr1776]

This is one of the annoying things about Bitcoin and miners...greedy miners they are not required to charge a fee. the system is like capitalism and is prioritizing due to incentive something which is a flaw in our brains and basic philosophy.

The nice thing is that since you don't like it, you are free to fork the client and blockchain and do it the way you want.  Then you can see how many people agree with you, and we can see how it all works out.

Let us know when your fork is ready to go so we can see how well it works in practice, particularly since this is a coinbase fee vs a bitcoin fee.

[Nagle]

Right, Coinbase can definitely solve this problem and so can Bitpay.  If the major players team together and allow cross-micro-transactions than it is a solution.  It won't be true decentralization, but bitcoin itself will always be decentralized even if the players on top of it aren't.  Utlimately, is the Coinbase/Bitpay transactions in their own system an acceptable solution?

They could even offer that service for dollars, and eliminate the need for Bitcoin entirely.

[mjc]

Yes its the dumb ass like you dont understand the economic of bitcoin infrastructure. You can send btc with any amount as a fee. But that tx will not be confirmed for a very long time.

I know how Bitcoin works.  Im making a point.  I am able to send up to $5,000 completely free of charge from one Chase bank account to another persons Chase bank account, instantly.  With no miner fees or waiting time either.

What a dumbass I am.  And now you see another reason why consumers have zero incentive to use Bitcoin.  Because dumbasses like you think this is a "dumbass" thing to take issue with.   Rather than addressing it as a real issue for future consumer adoption.  Which it is.

-B-

You can send 5.BTC from your coinbase account to mine with no fees.  Try to send $0.05 , $5.00 or even $5,000 from your account at chase to any other bank, or convert it from USD to Chinese Yan.

You can also send that $0.24 with no tx fee or for that matter $0.005 if you wanted.  If the app that you are using doesn't allow you to change it, that is not a problem with the block chain rath with the app you are using.

[counter]

Yes its the dumb ass like you dont understand the economic of bitcoin infrastructure. You can send btc with any amount as a fee. But that tx will not be confirmed for a very long time.

I know how Bitcoin works.  Im making a point.  I am able to send up to $5,000 completely free of charge from one Chase bank account to another persons Chase bank account, instantly.  With no miner fees or waiting time either.

What a dumbass I am.  And now you see another reason why consumers have zero incentive to use Bitcoin.  Because dumbasses like you think this is a "dumbass" thing to take issue with.   Rather than addressing it as a real issue for future consumer adoption.  Which it is.

-B-

You can send 5.BTC from your coinbase account to mine with no fees.  Try to send $0.05 , $5.00 or even $5,000 from your account at chase to any other bank, or convert it from USD to Chinese Yan.

You can also send that $0.24 with no tx fee or for that matter $0.005 if you wanted.  If the app that you are using doesn't allow you to change it, that is not a problem with the block chain rath with the app you are using.

I was thinking the same exact thing.  It is all good if you want to move money in their network but outside of that the fees are high and your options are limited.  Today in a world driven by technology and business, makes the future of Bitcoin look very bright.  The old and current banking models do not compare to Bitcoins ability to benefit it users and evolve in a future with a thriving free market.  Which is where I think we're headed.

[Loco]

with 0.0001 fee counts as instant. why 0.0002 ?
it would cost you $0.04
still for microtransactions, put something like 1 cent. it wont be "forever" che confirmation but yes a few hours i hope

[zedicus]

Yes its the dumb ass like you dont understand the economic of bitcoin infrastructure. You can send btc with any amount as a fee. But that tx will not be confirmed for a very long time.

I know how Bitcoin works.  Im making a point.  I am able to send up to $5,000 completely free of charge from one Chase bank account to another persons Chase bank account, instantly.  With no miner fees or waiting time either.

What a dumbass I am.  And now you see another reason why consumers have zero incentive to use Bitcoin.  Because dumbasses like you think this is a "dumbass" thing to take issue with.   Rather than addressing it as a real issue for future consumer adoption.  Which it is.

-B-

You can also send that $0.24 with no tx fee or for that matter $0.005 if you wanted.  If the app that you are using doesn't allow you to change it, that is not a problem with the block chain rath with the app you are using.

The OP was using coinbase to send his TX and they "choose" how much of a fee to include for you. They will usually include a TX fee that will more or less ensure the TX will get confirmed in the next block. IIRC coinbase will usually/sometimes cover the TX fee when sending from coinbase but I am unsure what their exact policy on this is.

[Ekaros]

Yes its the dumb ass like you dont understand the economic of bitcoin infrastructure. You can send btc with any amount as a fee. But that tx will not be confirmed for a very long time.

I know how Bitcoin works.  Im making a point.  I am able to send up to $5,000 completely free of charge from one Chase bank account to another persons Chase bank account, instantly.  With no miner fees or waiting time either.

What a dumbass I am.  And now you see another reason why consumers have zero incentive to use Bitcoin.  Because dumbasses like you think this is a "dumbass" thing to take issue with.   Rather than addressing it as a real issue for future consumer adoption.  Which it is.

-B-

You can send 5.BTC from your coinbase account to mine with no fees.  Try to send $0.05 , $5.00 or even $5,000 from your account at chase to any other bank, or convert it from USD to Chinese Yan.

You can also send that $0.24 with no tx fee or for that matter $0.005 if you wanted.  If the app that you are using doesn't allow you to change it, that is not a problem with the block chain rath with the app you are using.

I'm pretty sure I can transfer my 5€ to an other account in Europe for free. The currency conversions are bad still though.

[spiceminer15]

wonder why almost all places have a minimum amount you can use your debit or credit card for? because of transaction fees that are a lot higher than $0.09

[lyth0s]

Like others have stated, the transaction fee only has to be 0.0001 right now to usually be included in the following block, which is currently just under 5 cents. Sending 24 cents is what I would consider to be a very small transaction, even for microtransactions. I usually regard Microtransactions to be 50 cents to $3. However, if you actually wanted to send lets say 2 cents to someone (MICRO-Micro-transaction) you simply just don't add a fee. I've sent transactions in the past without adding any fee and the transaction usually takes 1-1.5 days to be included in a block, but at least it still makes it eventually.