More than $1.5 million must move into BTC every day, just to sustain its price

[exocytosis]

Since 3600 coins are created daily, more than $1.5 million must move into Bitcoin every day, just to sustain the price of the currency.

A lot of people are starting to notice that increased merchant adoption is actually driving price down, not up. Merchant adoption has indeed increased a lot so far in 2014, but user adoption seems to have stagnated. And for good reason: Acquiring, storing and using bitcoins is still a cumbersome, unsafe and expensive process. It's simply too much of a hassle for the Average Joe, and he has nothing to gain by using BTC instead of fiat. Merchants, on the other hand, can save money by accepting Bitcoin.

So the question is: Will merchants start giving discounts to consumers using Bitcoin for their purchases? And if so: When will that start?

[spud21]

Since 3600 coins are created daily, more than $1.5 million must move into Bitcoin every day, just to sustain the price of the currency.

Doesn't the price depend on if the people creating the coins are prepared to immediately sell them? If they immediately dump them the price will go down, but what if they hold them?

[botany]

Since 3600 coins are created daily, more than $1.5 million must move into Bitcoin every day, just to sustain the price of the currency.

Doesn't the price depend on if the people creating the coins are prepared to immediately sell them? If they immediately dump them the price will go down, but what if they hold them?

Alternatively, if the price of bitcoin remains the same, the overall market cap of bitcoin increases by more than $1.5 million daily.

[Chalkbot]

Since 3600 coins are created daily, more than $1.5 million must move into Bitcoin every day, just to sustain the price of the currency.

A lot of people are starting to notice that increased merchant adoption is actually driving price down, not up.

Acquiring, storing and using bitcoins is still a cumbersome, unsafe and expensive process.

https://bitcoinarmory.com/
https://blockchain.info/wallet
Androiod Wallet
Iphone Wallet
https://www.circle.com/
https://coinbase.com/

So the question is: Will merchants start giving discounts to consumers using Bitcoin for their purchases? And if so: When will that start?

www.bitcoinstore.com

[rocks]

Since 3600 coins are created daily, more than $1.5 million must move into Bitcoin every day, just to sustain the price of the currency.

A lot of people are starting to notice that increased merchant adoption is actually driving price down, not up. Merchant adoption has indeed increased a lot so far in 2014, but user adoption seems to have stagnated. And for good reason: Acquiring, storing and using bitcoins is still a cumbersome, unsafe and expensive process. It's simply too much of a hassle for the Average Joe, and he has nothing to gain by using BTC instead of fiat. Merchants, on the other hand, can save money by accepting Bitcoin.

So the question is: Will merchants start giving discounts to consumers using Bitcoin for their purchases? And if so: When will that start?

And this is a statement then on just how much buying interest there is in bitcoin today.

That supply is static though, if that demand goes up so must the price.

Additionally that supply will decrease over time, in less than 2 years it will cut in half. If demand stays the same, the price must rise to compensate.

This was part of the reason the price shot up in 2013, supply halved in late 2012.

[spazzdla]

Since 3600 coins are created daily, more than $1.5 million must move into Bitcoin every day, just to sustain the price of the currency.

Doesn't the price depend on if the people creating the coins are prepared to immediately sell them? If they immediately dump them the price will go down, but what if they hold them?

Yes......  If all miners hold their  coins then..

Ignore this thread.

[hyphymikey]

I don't sell any coins I mine. So I'm 100% certain you are wrong.

I am also one of the many who do not sell. Please take time to research before just throwing false ideas out there.

[Ultros]

I don't sell any coin I mine either. Most miners I know hold their coins. This argument is getting old.

[An amorous cow-herder]

I don't sell any coin I mine either. Most miners I know hold their coins. This argument is getting old.

In case you hadnt noticed, hobby mining is dying. Its the big mining farms that dominate nowadays.
Point is fairly moot for other reasons though, those farms a most likely not selling on open market.

[dropt]

In case you hadnt noticed, hobby mining is dying. Its the big mining farms that dominate nowadays.
Point is fairly moot for other reasons though, those farms a most likely not selling on open market.

Truth.  I had heard a rumour at one point that GABI had aligned with a large corporate mining entitity for their supply of coins.  However, while I was unable to verify it, it's not outside of the realms of reality.

[romerun]

I don't sell any coin I mine either. Most miners I know hold their coins. This argument is getting old.

In case you hadnt noticed, hobby mining is dying. Its the big mining farms that dominate nowadays.
Point is fairly moot for other reasons though, those farms a most likely not selling on open market.

Why ? I thought pro miners are likely to dump coins to exchanges as soon as they get them to pay for the upkeep.

[An amorous cow-herder]

In case you hadnt noticed, hobby mining is dying. Its the big mining farms that dominate nowadays.
Point is fairly moot for other reasons though, those farms a most likely not selling on open market.

Why ? I thought pro miners are likely to dump coins to exchanges as soon as they get them to pay for the upkeep.

A.) People who cant dump without killing the price deal with people who cant buy without pumping the price.
B.) You couldnt charge a premium for clean coins. Wouldnt want to sell the "good stuff" with all those dirty coins on market now, would you?

[2_Thumbs_Up]

I don't sell any coin I mine either. Most miners I know hold their coins. This argument is getting old.

In case you hadnt noticed, hobby mining is dying. Its the big mining farms that dominate nowadays.
Point is fairly moot for other reasons though, those farms a most likely not selling on open market.

But those buying from the mining farms are buying from them instead of buying elsewhere, such as an exchange. So the downward pressure on the price is essentially the same regardless of where they sell.

But still, lets do some math.

1.5 million USD/day*365 days= 547.5 million USD/year.

According to Coindesk the 2014 YTD Venture Capital investments in Bitcoin companies is 159 million USD. If we assume the VC investements will continue at the same rate this year that will add up to be roughly 250 million USD this year by the end of 2014.

So in other words, in order for BTC to sustain its price, we need about twice the amount of money going directly into Bitcoin, as we have VC capital going into Bitcoin companies. I don't think that's very unreasonable, especially not considering some of the VC funders probably want a Bitcoin position as well.

[cr1776]

...
A lot of people are starting to notice that increased merchant adoption is actually driving price down, not up.
...

A lot of people are CLAIMING this, but it is illogical and unproven.  It has been discussed in other threads, but still gets trotted out elsewhere as fact when it is likely exactly the opposite.

[beetcoin]

Since 3600 coins are created daily, more than $1.5 million must move into Bitcoin every day, just to sustain the price of the currency.

A lot of people are starting to notice that increased merchant adoption is actually driving price down, not up. Merchant adoption has indeed increased a lot so far in 2014, but user adoption seems to have stagnated. And for good reason: Acquiring, storing and using bitcoins is still a cumbersome, unsafe and expensive process. It's simply too much of a hassle for the Average Joe, and he has nothing to gain by using BTC instead of fiat. Merchants, on the other hand, can save money by accepting Bitcoin.

So the question is: Will merchants start giving discounts to consumers using Bitcoin for their purchases? And if so: When will that start?

it's already started. Newegg is selling PS4s at $320 with bitcoin-only payment. not just that, but overstock is paying their employee bonuses in bitcoin. i think we should get the news that merchant adoption is dragging the price down, and the retailers who accept bitcoin should offset it by putting getting new hands some bitcoins.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=747324.0

[botany]

...
A lot of people are starting to notice that increased merchant adoption is actually driving price down, not up.
...

A lot of people are CLAIMING this, but it is illogical and unproven.  It has been discussed in other threads, but still gets trotted out elsewhere as fact when it is likely exactly the opposite.

People do make the distinction between short term and long term.....

[beetcoin]

...
A lot of people are starting to notice that increased merchant adoption is actually driving price down, not up.
...

A lot of people are CLAIMING this, but it is illogical and unproven.  It has been discussed in other threads, but still gets trotted out elsewhere as fact when it is likely exactly the opposite.

wait, what's the counter argument then? because merchants accepting bitcoins means they get circulated and the supply is larger than the demand.

[exocytosis]

A lot of people are CLAIMING this, but it is illogical and unproven.  It has been discussed in other threads, but still gets trotted out elsewhere as fact when it is likely exactly the opposite.

Really? Then what's driving price down?

[EricTyle]

Yeah. People made me think that miners get bitcoin and sell it immediately just to pay their electricity bill.

Correct me if I am wrong, at this point it's not 'not-profitable' because of the electricity bill but because of the cost of the device. Ye?

[cypherdoc]

I don't sell any coins I mine. So I'm 100% certain you are wrong.

I am also one of the many who do not sell. Please take time to research before just throwing false ideas out there.

that's funny.

me too.