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Author Topic: The moronic purification cult is a direct result of hoarding  (Read 3416 times)
NASDAQEnema
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April 01, 2012, 12:30:21 AM
 #21

We get it... You haven't looked beyond these forums.  Open your eyes... I could drop fiat for bitcoin for everything except property taxes and utilities if more people were willing to pay me in bitcoin.

Poster printing?
Nationwide delivery?
Home repair?
Car insurance?
Frozen meat by the truck?
HV/AC installation?

You know the boring stuff.

Everything on that list I have no need for or handle myself other than car insurance.

Food, clothing, and anything from Amazon.com can be had for bitcoin.

My complaint isn't about what you or I need.
Those things are part of a functioning productive world and when truckloads of meat can't be delivered because bitcoin can't cover the load, bitcoin will crash.

Your food doesn't come from Amazon. It comes from farms.

No farm delivery, no Amazon supply.

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April 01, 2012, 12:35:20 AM
 #22

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April 01, 2012, 04:53:44 AM
 #23

We get it... You haven't looked beyond these forums.  Open your eyes... I could drop fiat for bitcoin for everything except property taxes and utilities if more people were willing to pay me in bitcoin.

Poster printing?
Nationwide delivery?
Home repair?
Car insurance?
Frozen meat by the truck?
HV/AC installation?

You know the boring stuff.

Everything on that list I have no need for or handle myself other than car insurance.

Food, clothing, and anything from Amazon.com can be had for bitcoin.

My complaint isn't about what you or I need.
Those things are part of a functioning productive world and when truckloads of meat can't be delivered because bitcoin can't cover the load, bitcoin will crash.

Your food doesn't come from Amazon. It comes from farms.

No farm delivery, no Amazon supply.

We have to start somewhere... have some fucking patience.

There is actually a good case for bitcoin in the trucking industry.  Money transmittal is a constant pain in some trucking sectors, all it would take is someone getting stations to accept bitcoin payments.  It is being done cheaper than credit cards and way cheaper than the shitty high fee services some people use.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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NASDAQEnema
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April 01, 2012, 09:54:01 AM
 #24

We have to start somewhere... have some fucking patience.

There is actually a good case for bitcoin in the trucking industry.  Money transmittal is a constant pain in some trucking sectors, all it would take is someone getting stations to accept bitcoin payments.  It is being done cheaper than credit cards and way cheaper than the shitty high fee services some people use.

Well such bridges need to be built now.
Because bridges are the most useful yet mundane and obscured issues.
The passive free market attitude never penetrates deep into business to business when most of the passive free market is in the retail end.

Also if the trucking industry accepted bitcoin we wouldn't need govt to accept taxes and we would still have entrenched use.

And would likely result in massive pressure against govt regulation of bitcoin.

Bridges need to be taken care of now.

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blablahblah
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April 01, 2012, 10:46:31 AM
 #25

Brother, although what you say has the ring of substance,
I entirely fail to see what point you're trying to make.

And I read the OP twice.

He's spreading FUD. It's "fear, uncertainty, and doubt" for those who are unfamiliar with the term. It's basically anti-bitcoin propaganda to discourage people from adopting it. If you can imagine someone who has just recently heard about bitcoin and wants to find out more about it, they are likely to hop on the Internet to find out more from a range of sources to build an overall picture of "what it's all about". If there seem to be lots of "concerned people" who are, ahem:

Quote
waiting for the system to change, reset, repair.

then the "Newbies" more likely to be discouraged from investing in Bitcoin. They probably wouldn't even consider the idea that what the OP is saying is complete bullsh*t.

That is what propaganda is all about. It's about having some kind of ulterior motive and trying to sway public opinion. The bigger the "ring of substance" (despite lack of evidence), then the more effective it is likely to be.

"Half truths" are a very popular technique. Say something that seems true, e.g.: about stealing or hacking or something like that, but then conveniently forget to mention how often it happens, or how it compares to the US dollar or something like that.

Repeating their claims many times is another technique. These boards are great for it because 2 guys working together can simply keep quoting and linking each other, thus drowning out alternative opinions.
NASDAQEnema
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April 01, 2012, 02:21:29 PM
 #26

He's spreading FUD. It's "fear, uncertainty, and doubt" for those who are unfamiliar with the term. It's basically anti-bitcoin propaganda to discourage people from adopting it. If you can imagine someone who has just recently heard about bitcoin and wants to find out more about it, they are likely to hop on the Internet to find out more from a range of sources to build an overall picture of "what it's all about". If there seem to be lots of "concerned people" who are, ahem:

Your whole response is entirely empty rhetoric having absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. I was around for the March 2011 blowout.
I have promoted and I use bitcoin for services. I'm not criticizing bitcoin.

I'm criticizing the bitcoin community for not making connections to essential BORING infrastructure.

Also I'm pushing litecoin. So please try to pay attention to what people ACTUALLY say.

Quote
Quote
waiting for the system to change, reset, repair.

then the "Newbies" more likely to be discouraged from investing in Bitcoin. They probably wouldn't even consider the idea that what the OP is saying is complete bullsh*t.

Read the title btw - I am against tainted coins, coin melting, which will cause Bitcoin harm.

Quote
That is what propaganda is all about. It's about having some kind of ulterior motive and trying to sway public opinion. The bigger the "ring of substance" (despite lack of evidence), then the more effective it is likely to be.

"Half truths" are a very popular technique. Say something that seems true, e.g.: about stealing or hacking or something like that, but then conveniently forget to mention how often it happens, or how it compares to the US dollar or something like that.

Is this a response or a corporate disclaimer in a pharmaceutical pamphlet? When did I mention hacking? Nothing of the sort is in my post.

Quote
Repeating their claims many times is another technique. These boards are great for it because 2 guys working together can simply keep quoting and linking each other, thus drowning out alternative opinions.

Um I can see you have trouble with alternative opinions. Those of others.
Making accusations from rhetoric rather than facts.

Care to quote what I actually said?

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April 01, 2012, 05:19:54 PM
 #27


Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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April 01, 2012, 07:31:20 PM
 #28

Bitcoin will not primarily be used to buy things you can easily get with traditional currency, because of the advantages in buying with national currency over buying with bitcoin due to the scale of goods/services offered in national currency.

The only areas where bitcoin will see a significant increase usage at this stage are those where bitcoin's inherent advantages are so much greater than those of dollars/euros, as to make up for the disadvantages of the small scale of activity.

These are things like virtual goods (no charge-backs), unregulated financial instruments (anonymity), and international-remittance and micro payments (low transaction costs).
NASDAQEnema
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April 01, 2012, 08:10:13 PM
 #29

Bitcoin will not primarily be used to buy things you can easily get with traditional currency, because of the advantages in buying with national currency over buying with bitcoin due to the scale of goods/services offered in national currency.

The only areas where bitcoin will see a significant increase usage at this stage are those where bitcoin's inherent advantages are so much greater than those of dollars/euros, as to make up for the disadvantages of the small scale of activity.

These are things like virtual goods (no charge-backs), unregulated financial instruments (anonymity), and international-remittance and micro payments (low transaction costs).


O_p  o  q_O <- ping pong as in dayam, someone understands finally.

Translation: Let's wait for the system to crash.

Well, then I shall consider bitcoin a passive market. Litecoiners understand the problem we face.

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April 01, 2012, 09:06:58 PM
 #30


Bitcoiners want gold bars. Bitcoiners want to wait out the financial disaster. Litecoiners want to deal with the actual issues not just protect their own assets.



A general frustration over the slow (imperceptable?) adoption of Bitcoin is a valid reaction.  If what Inaba said is true, that 99% of Bitcoin is in currency speculation, it's quite disheartening.




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April 02, 2012, 12:25:57 AM
 #31

It is very difficult to understand OP. I'd even say I am astounded by the amount of effort it takes. Is English not your first language or something?
NASDAQEnema
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April 02, 2012, 08:15:21 AM
 #32

It is very difficult to understand OP. I'd even say I am astounded by the amount of effort it takes. Is English not your first language or something?

Ahem.

Coinmelting, tainting, 30% of the network not adding tx are symptoms.

People know what the issues regarding and leading to coinmelting, tainted coins, and 30% of miners not processing transactions are.

I'm simply suggesting these are not individual issues but symptoms of a larger problem.

Quote
Hoarding is called thus not because people are jealous (there is that element, tho), but mainly because people (who have no Bitcoins) are not waiting for the system to change, reset, repair.

They want a medium of exchange that allows them to replace broken or provide missing infrastructure.

People also know that those who complain about hoarding are accused of being jealous that they are not early adopters.
People also have an idea what economic changes have been discussed and the notion of a reset and have the hope for repair to be possible.

I'm simply suggesting that they are not jealous but rather want to use Bitcoin to create economic flows in the places where the economy would be most vulnerable during a collapse. I'm also saying that those who hold a lot of Bitcoins are waiting for the economy to go through
magical natural processes such as:

to change for the better
to crash violently enough to punish all players which would cause a reset
to crash quickly enough so minimal collateral damage occurs so that repair is possible

I'm suggesting that waiting for these processes is a delusion. I'm also saying this delusion is the real problem which is causing those symptoms above. At this point I have to mention those symptoms again because all this redundant explaining is making it difficult to recall the original point. Those symptoms are coinmelting, tainting, and 30% of miners not including transactions.

Quote
You can also gauge the opinion of a currency by the behavior of thieves.

The amount of fraud in Bitcoin is right now related to how many people think it's a joke. Thieves want bitcoins to get easy dollars.
In the future they may steal Bitcoins so they can get a TV at a yard sale which they can put on auction for more Bitcoins.

But they are not doing that now.

The basic essence of the delusion is the idea that Bitcoins are filling the needs of an economy. The behavior of thieves shows that this is not the case. Thieves cannot yet benefit directly from stealing Bitcoin. Unlike people purchasing gold for its future dollar value, thieves steal Bitcoins and quickly exchange them for fiat. Bitcoin is useful at the retail end. It's not being used in situations where contracts and decisions are made for the long term.

The other issue in the delusion is the idea that we should wait while Bitcoin crawls its way into various non-retail markets. We don't have time. We either start building solid relationships in places the general public doesn't even think about or this economy is toast.

Quote
I have sent the chewing gum from my LTC auction. 30.1 LTC for 5 sticks (I sent an 18 stick pack I bought for $1.69 - no 5 stick sugarless anywhere near me). Most 5 sticks are $.35 here. 1.69 / (18 / 5) = 1.69 / 3.6 = $.45 ish

LTCs trade at $.0055 - on the hypothetical chewing gum market they are worth $.35 / 30.1 to $.45 / 30.1 or 2.3 to 2.8 times.

I'm demonstrating that litecoiners are willing to engage in markets that are more pedestrian than the speculation markets on these boards.

Quote
And that's from ppl who have a lot. Combine low supply with renaissance mindset and you'll really see some action. Also for ppl who say that ppl are getting a bargain at 30.1 - I don't want $. I want cryptocoins. So they are in fact undervalued. The gum is cheap only if you want $.

I will be auctioning a T2330 Intel 1.6 GHz Laptop CPU for LTC soon.

I wasn't kidding when I said I would make a stand.

I'm simply suggesting litecoiners are willing to roll up their sleeves while bitcoiners wait for the market to kill everybody off. I'm not waiting.

Now the question is: Why was it necessary to have all this redundant explaining of issues that have already been discussed? How is the shorter version unclear?

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April 02, 2012, 11:20:06 AM
 #33

Well I'm sorry for misinterpreting your intentions with this thread Smiley One can never be too careful round here.

Perhaps focus on one issue at a time, and explain your views for those who might not be familiar? Like the idea of "tainting" coins. I actually agree that it seems silly. For a start, what would be required to make it work? Some kind of centralised database, which keeps a comprehensive list of coins that have been abused according to someone's law, and it would need to be administered by some central authority. And who becomes the owner of those coins?

Clearly the developers want nothing to do with it, otherwise they might have considered building tainting "features" into the P2P client. Once they start playing around with non-essential features that make things complicated, it's all downhill from there.

On the other hand, it also raises the issue of Bitcoin being a bit morally blind, or amoral. All discovered coins must have an owner. There is no "legitimate" or "illegitimate" owner. So if a thief brutally steals someone's coins, they become the new owner, just as with cash. So how do we deal with thieves? Societies around the world already have police forces and various laws to deal with theft. They exist for a reason.
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