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Author Topic: The moronic purification cult is a direct result of hoarding  (Read 3554 times)
NASDAQEnema
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March 30, 2012, 12:33:27 PM
 #1

Coinmelting, tainting, 30% of the network not adding tx are symptoms.

Hoarding is called thus not because people are jealous (there is that element, tho), but mainly because people (who have no Bitcoins) are not waiting for the system to change, reset, repair.

They want a medium of exchange that allows them to replace broken or provide missing infrastructure.
You can also gauge the opinion of a currency by the behavior of thieves.

The amount of fraud in Bitcoin is right now related to how many people think it's a joke. Thieves want bitcoins to get easy dollars.
In the future they may steal Bitcoins so they can get a TV at a yard sale which they can put on auction for more Bitcoins.

But they are not doing that now.

I have sent the chewing gum from my LTC auction. 30.1 LTC for 5 sticks (I sent an 18 stick pack I bought for $1.69 - no 5 stick sugarless anywhere near me). Most 5 sticks are $.35 here. 1.69 / (18 / 5) = 1.69 / 3.6 = $.45 ish

LTCs trade at $.0055 - on the hypothetical chewing gum market they are worth $.35 / 30.1 to $.45 / 30.1 or 2.3 to 2.8 times.

And that's from ppl who have a lot. Combine low supply with renaissance mindset and you'll really see some action. Also for ppl who say that ppl are getting a bargain at 30.1 - I don't want $. I want cryptocoins. So they are in fact undervalued. The gum is cheap only if you want $.

I will be auctioning a T2330 Intel 1.6 GHz Laptop CPU for LTC soon.

I wasn't kidding when I said I would make a stand.

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NASDAQEnema
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March 30, 2012, 12:47:29 PM
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Thieves are using Bitcoin to get dollars. They think it's a joke.

There is a tension between the perception of Bitcoin (by necessity) and usage (by practicality).

Those of us who want to build are getting restless. We don't know what the big bitcoin holders want and they're not asking for anything we have when they do talk. This has resulted in ppl calling them hoarders. Others want demurrage. Others want tainting.

Fungibility is not being respected because bitcoins are a pain to acquire without going through the dollar bridge.

I want to build as well as protect fungibility. I'm cray cray like that.

So unless "hoarders" start saying what they want in terms of goods and services, we're going elsewhere. Litecoins, fartcoins, whatever it takes.

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March 30, 2012, 12:56:32 PM
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In related news theives are using Gold to get dollars.  They think Gold is a joke.

Quote
So unless "hoarders" start saying what they want in terms of goods and services, we're going elsewhere. Litecoins, fartcoins, whatever it takes

Why do you need the "hoarders" coins and what they hell does that have to do with fungibility.
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March 30, 2012, 01:01:15 PM
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Brother, although what you say has the ring of substance,
I entirely fail to see what point you're trying to make.

And I read the OP twice.

Uh-huh. I came to the conclusion it was a very clever chat bot. You can almost understand what it's getting at but ... logical content == 0.

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March 30, 2012, 01:07:53 PM
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Thieves are using Bitcoin to get dollars. They think it's a joke.

There is a tension between the perception of Bitcoin (by necessity) and usage (by practicality).

Those of us who want to build are getting restless. We don't know what the big bitcoin holders want and they're not asking for anything we have when they do talk. This has resulted in ppl calling them hoarders. Others want demurrage. Others want tainting.

Fungibility is not being respected because bitcoins are a pain to acquire without going through the dollar bridge.

I want to build as well as protect fungibility. I'm cray cray like that.

So unless "hoarders" start saying what they want in terms of goods and services, we're going elsewhere. Litecoins, fartcoins, whatever it takes.

Bro, I think I know what you were trying to say, you wanted to acquire bitcoins via bartering, and you were lamenting those hoarders don't want sell their coins, and don't want to buy your gum?

Everyone know what big hoarders want: higher prices.

There's nothing you can't buy in this world, if the price is right.
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March 30, 2012, 01:12:50 PM
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Bro, I think I know what you were trying to say, you wanted to acquire bitcoins via bartering, and you were lamenting those hoarders don't want sell their coins, and don't want to buy your gum?

Everyone know what big hoarders want: higher prices.

There's nothing you can't buy in this world, if the price is right.

I sold my gum.
I'll be selling my CPU.
And some head phones.
And pens, crayons, paper.

Shit. People. Use.

The litecoin culture is more conducive to get out of this mess than bitcoin culture.

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March 30, 2012, 01:16:45 PM
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In related news theives are using Gold to get dollars.  They think Gold is a joke.

Quote
So unless "hoarders" start saying what they want in terms of goods and services, we're going elsewhere. Litecoins, fartcoins, whatever it takes

Why do you need the "hoarders" coins and what they hell does that have to do with fungibility.

I want something other than dollars.
People who can't get bitcoins are getting loose with the fungibility. They don't respect it.

Angry ppl want to sacrifice important features to acquire / keep more bitcoins.

Hoarders are delusional if they think bitcoins will continue to have value when the dollar explodes. All attached currencies will fall including bitcoins.

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Gerald Davis


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March 30, 2012, 02:46:14 PM
 #8

I want something other than dollars.

Maybe people don't want what you got?

I mean honestly I don't hoard, I routinely trade or sell 80%+ of the coins I have mined over the years.  Still I don't really care about an old piece of junk computer or a stick of gum.

Just yesterday I bought a yubikey off a noob.  No dollars involved.
I have bought gold coins from vendors, I routinely snap up useful computing hardware in the marketplace.

Some girls who never heard of Bitcoin before this week got more coins than you have simply by sharing naughty pics.

Maybe what you are offering is just worthless?

Hoarding doesn't reduce fungibility.  If anything it simply drives price up (less coins in effective supply) but the nominal price of Bitcoin is irrelevant.  
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March 30, 2012, 03:27:28 PM
 #9

There's nothing you can't buy in this world, if the price is right.

This is an urban legend.

Case in point: I want eternal life and I'm not finding any sellers.

ok, I stand correct. I shall rephrase,

There are somethings money can't buy. For everything else, there's bitcoin.

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March 30, 2012, 03:29:22 PM
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If the UN announced Worldcoin was to be released. People would complain that the billionaires with their mining rigs make it impossible for the rest of us to mine any Worldcoin because the difficulty factor is too high. Trade prices would skyrocket as a result. I don't know about anyone else, but BTC @ < $5 US seems like a bargain.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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March 30, 2012, 05:00:12 PM
 #11

OK, now we're starting to get it.
Nope.

Quote
To sum it up:
    - you're mad because you missed the early adopter's boat (you're in good company on these forums)

Not even close. As I said people are not complaining about not getting in on the ground floor. But rather because the people with the coins aren't talking. No one knows what the hell they want in services people can provide.

Check the auctions some time - it's all financial instruments no one new to Bitcoin has. Money for money.

Those are useless to people who want to build infrastructure with Bitcoin.

Quote
   - you believe that litecoin is as good as bitcoin (you're probably right. In the same way Linux is better than windows on every possible objective metric. It still loses because it came late to the table)

Nope. I believe the litecoiners are more reasonable in their awareness of immediate problems.

Quote
   - you're saying you can't buy/sell what you want with bitcoins and litecoin is better ? (I'd generally disagree, but what do I know).

I sold gum for litecoins. Past tense. As in successful sale.

Bitcoiners want gold bars. Bitcoiners want to wait out the financial disaster. Litecoiners want to deal with the actual issues not just protect their own assets.

Quote
   - you think hoarder have a stranglehold on the market (you're wrong. D&T posts are correct).

Nope. They're delusional if they think their Bitcoins will have value when the value is tied to dollars. Once no one wants dollars anymore no one will buy Bitcoins because they won't need them for storing dollar value. Euro will blow up around same time. Pounds will crash along with everything else. Maybe Asian currency basket will be valuable. How many yen is a burger these days?

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March 30, 2012, 09:46:23 PM
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Nope. They're delusional if they think their Bitcoins will have value when the value is tied to dollars. Once no one wants dollars anymore no one will buy Bitcoins because they won't need them for storing dollar value. Euro will blow up around same time. Pounds will crash along with everything else. Maybe Asian currency basket will be valuable. How many yen is a burger these days?

Bitcoin value is "tied" to dollars? how do you explain the floating exchange rate? Bitcoin value is tied to the goods and services available in exchange for bitcoin + speculation on future availability of such goods and services.

"bitcoins store dollar value" wat?
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March 31, 2012, 02:51:21 AM
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Bitcoin value is "tied" to dollars? how do you explain the floating exchange rate? Bitcoin value is tied to the goods and services available in exchange for bitcoin + speculation on future availability of such goods and services.

"bitcoins store dollar value" wat?

Please don't try to launder facts through rhetoric.

Look at the items for sale or auctioned on this forum. Most are one or another financial instrument. People are holding onto Bitcoins til there's a better price in other currencies. There isn't a consistent market for goods.

Hoarders are holding for better dollar prices. When the dollar crashes, bitcoins will no longer have any usefulness for them and they will start selling them massively.

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March 31, 2012, 10:28:12 AM
 #14

Look at the items for sale or auctioned on this forum. Most are one or another financial instrument. People are holding onto Bitcoins til there's a better price in other currencies. There isn't a consistent market for goods.

Hoarding is one motive.

Hoarders are holding for better dollar prices. When the dollar crashes, bitcoins will no longer have any usefulness for them and they will start selling them massively.

So if the dollar collapses, people start selling all their Bitcoins to get worthless dollars? This is totally illogical.

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March 31, 2012, 10:44:32 AM
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Look at the items for sale or auctioned on this forum. Most are one or another financial instrument. People are holding onto Bitcoins til there's a better price in other currencies. There isn't a consistent market for goods.

Hoarding is one motive.

Hoarders are holding for better dollar prices. When the dollar crashes, bitcoins will no longer have any usefulness for them and they will start selling them massively.

So if the dollar collapses, people start selling all their Bitcoins to get worthless dollars? This is totally illogical.

To hoarders Bitcoins are like movie tickets. If the movie sucks they'll get rid of the tickets.

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March 31, 2012, 01:31:37 PM
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Bitcoin value is "tied" to dollars? how do you explain the floating exchange rate? Bitcoin value is tied to the goods and services available in exchange for bitcoin + speculation on future availability of such goods and services.

"bitcoins store dollar value" wat?

Please don't try to launder facts through rhetoric.

Look at the items for sale or auctioned on this forum. Most are one or another financial instrument. People are holding onto Bitcoins til there's a better price in other currencies. There isn't a consistent market for goods.

Hoarders are holding for better dollar prices value. When the dollar crashes, bitcoins will no longer have any usefulness for them will become more useful and they will start selling them trading them for goods and services massively.

FTFY

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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March 31, 2012, 04:12:30 PM
 #17

Hoarders are holding for better dollar prices value.

1. Why not speak up and say wtf that value is?
2. The auction and WTB boards are all video cards and laminated frozen embroidered dollar bills.

Quote
When the dollar crashes, bitcoins will no longer have any usefulness for them will become more useful

I'll take that hypothetically but we are still left with problems:
1. While they will be relatively more useful,
2. The inherent usefulness (total capacity thereof) will be the same.

When cars break down, people might choose a horse, but the horse will not outperform a working car in and of itself.

Quote
and they will start selling them trading them for goods and services massively.

That rhetoric constantly marginalizes measurements, thresholds, opportunity windows, and deadlines such that it becomes ridiculous to repeat.

There is not now the infrastructure to carry the transition. The dollar will burst way before Bitcoin is ready for the load, and there will be a limited window of time after which people won't bother with Bitcoin because it won't move fast enough. Also that's assuming people will have clarity of mind when the panic hits. They won't. Therefore they will not behave rationally nor proactively nor will they follow through with all the intellectual myths of the free market. The only thing the free market offers is practical dynamics and some heavy punishments for stupidity. The free market will not do the thinking for you. Nor will panicked people take steps that make sense.

Rhetoric in a collapse is based on arguments about best action not about real human behavior therefore it is useless.

The demand for both JOBS and SERVICES is huge so why not connect them now, before the flood? Why crawl? Why stare at the dust storm instead of building levees and walls?

Bitcoin will not be able to carry the transition, it will not be able to respond quickly enough, therefore it will after a euphoric jump, be abandoned. If ppl turn to distant rhetoric now to soothe themselves when they see the coming problem, how realistic will their reactions be during the crisis?

They'll just point fingers at each other instead being proactive now.

Quote
FTFY

Not quite. Smiley

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March 31, 2012, 05:38:46 PM
 #18

We get it... You haven't looked beyond these forums.  Open your eyes... I could drop fiat for bitcoin for everything except property taxes and utilities if more people were willing to pay me in bitcoin.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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March 31, 2012, 07:38:01 PM
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We get it... You haven't looked beyond these forums.  Open your eyes... I could drop fiat for bitcoin for everything except property taxes and utilities if more people were willing to pay me in bitcoin.

Poster printing?
Nationwide delivery?
Home repair?
Car insurance?
Frozen meat by the truck?
HV/AC installation?

You know the boring stuff.

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March 31, 2012, 10:27:20 PM
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We get it... You haven't looked beyond these forums.  Open your eyes... I could drop fiat for bitcoin for everything except property taxes and utilities if more people were willing to pay me in bitcoin.

Poster printing?
Nationwide delivery?
Home repair?
Car insurance?
Frozen meat by the truck?
HV/AC installation?

You know the boring stuff.

Everything on that list I have no need for or handle myself other than car insurance.

Food, clothing, and anything from Amazon.com can be had for bitcoin.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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