American journalist James Foley reportedly beheaded by ISIS

[sana8410]

We don't have any publicly available data that Qatar for example funds the Islamic State. This has been a pretty popular misconception because these countries fund other Islamist militias who may also work with say the Al Nusra Front or even contain Al Qaeda affiliates, but that isn't the same as directly funding the IS. In fact, these countries have been, under US pressure, cracking down fairly hard on financial sources for the Islamic State and even Al Nusra recently. Saudi Arabia might have at one point, it is hard to tell, we don't really have that data unfortunately and it is difficult to distinguish between private funders and those allowed to fund with Saudi government complicity / support.

always amuses me those numbies blaming the US for Islamic fanatics. Crazies have been around for millennia. Religious zealots as well. THe numbies refuse to acknowledge that blaming the US is pathetic. We are the EXCUSE. Not the reason.

[sana8410]

What should be pointed out again and again is how the mainstream Islamic leadership REFUSES to stand up and denounce the extremists. When was the last time you saw a march against Islamic extremists by other Islamics?

And then they wonder why no one thinks much of them.

[umair127]

What should be pointed out again and again is how the mainstream Islamic leadership REFUSES to stand up and denounce the extremists. When was the last time you saw a march against Islamic extremists by other Islamics?

And then they wonder why no one thinks much of them.

It seems almost childishly naive to think that the United States, the global superpower, couldn't be the cause of anything in the world. The Islamic State has already been denounced by the largest names in formal Islam. When was the last time you marched in the streets against the activities of Jundallah? America did that twice. Japan unconditionally surrendered.

[sana8410]

What should be pointed out again and again is how the mainstream Islamic leadership REFUSES to stand up and denounce the extremists. When was the last time you saw a march against Islamic extremists by other Islamics?

And then they wonder why no one thinks much of them.

It seems almost childishly naive to think that the United States, the global superpower, couldn't be the cause of anything in the world. The Islamic State has already been denounced by the largest names in formal Islam. When was the last time you marched in the streets against the activities of Jundallah? America did that twice. Japan unconditionally surrendered.

Comparing the IS to the Japanese government is laughable.

[umair127]

What should be pointed out again and again is how the mainstream Islamic leadership REFUSES to stand up and denounce the extremists. When was the last time you saw a march against Islamic extremists by other Islamics?

And then they wonder why no one thinks much of them.

It seems almost childishly naive to think that the United States, the global superpower, couldn't be the cause of anything in the world. The Islamic State has already been denounced by the largest names in formal Islam. When was the last time you marched in the streets against the activities of Jundallah? America did that twice. Japan unconditionally surrendered.

Comparing the IS to the Japanese government is laughable.

you really do not study a lot of history do you?

Take a good hard look at the composition of the Japanese government (such as it was) during WW2. With attention especially to the Army senior officers who ran most of it.

You want fanatics? You got them right there.

[umair127]

It seems almost childishly naive to think that the United States, the global superpower, couldn't be the cause of anything in the world.



The Islamic State has already been denounced by the largest names in formal Islam.



When was the last time you marched in the streets against the activities of Jundallah?

Are you willingly this stupid or are you forced? I notice that you refuse to admit I was right on #3. And as regards #1 you are as dense as usual.
And I also notice you refused to admit I was right on that. And so called denouncements? No surprise an idiot like you would call them that.

[sana8410]

It seems almost childishly naive to think that the United States, the global superpower, couldn't be the cause of anything in the world.



The Islamic State has already been denounced by the largest names in formal Islam.



When was the last time you marched in the streets against the activities of Jundallah?

Are you willingly this stupid or are you forced? I notice that you refuse to admit I was right on #3. And as regards #1 you are as dense as usual.
And I also notice you refused to admit I was right on that. And so called denouncements? No surprise an idiot like you would call them that.

You were wrong on all three accounts. Deal with it.

[umair127]

We don't have any publicly available data that Qatar for example funds the Islamic State. This has been a pretty popular misconception because these countries fund other Islamist militias who may also work with say the Al Nusra Front or even contain Al Qaeda affiliates, but that isn't the same as directly funding the IS. In fact, these countries have been, under US pressure, cracking down fairly hard on financial sources for the Islamic State and even Al Nusra recently. Saudi Arabia might have at one point, it is hard to tell, we don't really have that data unfortunately and it is difficult to distinguish between private funders and those allowed to fund with Saudi government complicity / support.

always amuses me those numbies blaming the US for Islamic fanatics. Crazies have been around for millennia. Religious zealots as well. THe numbies refuse to acknowledge that blaming the US is pathetic. We are the EXCUSE. Not the reason.

There is no question US foreign policy has some blame for attacks against US interests. Nothing operates in a vacuum. If you piss people off enough, they react. This is the result of US foreign policy pissing off a lot of people. I'm neither attacking nor defending the policies themselves, just making a statement of fact that they sometimes cause violent blowback.

[umair127]

As far as mainstream leadership, your point might have had more weight if Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen hadn't made a joint statement denouncing ISIS on 08/11/14.

As far as marches and protests in dictatorships, they tend to happen less often.

[sana8410]

Indeed, the Grand Mufi of Saudi Arabia, the Grand Mufti of Egypt, and the head of turkey's Islamic community have all publicly condemned the ISIS which rounds out the big Sunni three. Throw on top of that the condemnations by the Arab League, and Iran and pretty much all of the big official bases are covered.

[sana8410]

We don't have any publicly available data that Qatar for example funds the Islamic State. This has been a pretty popular misconception because these countries fund other Islamist militias who may also work with say the Al Nusra Front or even contain Al Qaeda affiliates, but that isn't the same as directly funding the IS. In fact, these countries have been, under US pressure, cracking down fairly hard on financial sources for the Islamic State and even Al Nusra recently. Saudi Arabia might have at one point, it is hard to tell, we don't really have that data unfortunately and it is difficult to distinguish between private funders and those allowed to fund with Saudi government complicity / support.

always amuses me those numbies blaming the US for Islamic fanatics. Crazies have been around for millennia. Religious zealots as well. THe numbies refuse to acknowledge that blaming the US is pathetic. We are the EXCUSE. Not the reason.

There is no question US foreign policy has some blame for attacks against US interests. Nothing operates in a vacuum. If you piss people off enough, they react. This is the result of US foreign policy pissing off a lot of people. I'm neither attacking nor defending the policies themselves, just making a statement of fact that they sometimes cause violent blowback.

You also seem to be unable to tell the difference between excuses and reasons.Where are the Religious leadership denouncements? Political types mean very little.And I wonder. Where are those marches in the US and the UK and elsewhere?

[zolace]

Indeed, the Grand Mufi of Saudi Arabia, the Grand Mufti of Egypt, and the head of turkey's Islamic community have all publicly condemned the ISIS which rounds out the big Sunni three. Throw on top of that the condemnations by the Arab League, and Iran and pretty much all of the big official bases are covered.

would be interesting to see what PREVIOUS denouncements of Islamic extremism that did NOT directly threaten THEM that they made.

And by the way since you like to ignore things like this can you point out anything like that from the Islamic communities in the US or UK or anyplaces like that?

OR actually any marches protesting Islamic extremism in the West?

Notice how you keep dodging that question

[sana8410]

Indeed, the Grand Mufi of Saudi Arabia, the Grand Mufti of Egypt, and the head of turkey's Islamic community have all publicly condemned the ISIS which rounds out the big Sunni three. Throw on top of that the condemnations by the Arab League, and Iran and pretty much all of the big official bases are covered.

would be interesting to see what PREVIOUS denouncements of Islamic extremism that did NOT directly threaten THEM that they made.

And by the way since you like to ignore things like this can you point out anything like that from the Islamic communities in the US or UK or anyplaces like that?

OR actually any marches protesting Islamic extremism in the West?

Notice how you keep dodging that question

A lot. Just because you never pay attention doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. There were strong condemnations of 9/11, of Al Qaeda, of extremism in general, we see Islamic clerics assassinated all of the time for espousing moderate views in the face of radicals. Dozens this year alone. We've even seen considerable progress in the area of womens rights over the last several years within mainstream theological views including a denouncement of female genital mutilation from the head of the four main schools of Islamic Sunni though (which is based out of Egypt).

[sana8410]

And by the way since you like to ignore things like this can you point out anything like that from the Islamic communities in the US or UK or anyplaces like that? OR actually any marches protesting Islamic extremism in the West?

Easily, it happens all of the time.

Norway: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/08/27...y-against-isis

Michigan: http://twitchy.com/2014/08/25/muslim...humane-crimes/

London: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londo...s-9673410.html

Paris: http://www.usnews.com/news/world/art...ic-state-group

After 9/11 The British Muslim Council paid to take out full page advertisements against terrorism in British newspapers. The Nigerian Islamic council was quick to denounce Boko Haram as well, and in Egypt a couple of years ago we saw Egyptian Muslims stand outside Coptic churches during Christmas masses in order to protect them from attacks by radicals.

Once again, just because you can't be bothered to pay attention doesn't mean that these things don't exist.

[sana8410]

Notice how you keep dodging that question

When was the last time that you participated in a march against Islamic extremism? How about radical Christian groups that engage in violence? How about against terrorist organizations that the US has supported like Jundallah? It's interesting that you keep dodging THAT question. The simple fact is that you have a clear double standard and expect others to do something that you can't even be bothered to get up and do yourself.

[zolace]

Indeed, the Grand Mufi of Saudi Arabia, the Grand Mufti of Egypt, and the head of turkey's Islamic community have all publicly condemned the ISIS which rounds out the big Sunni three. Throw on top of that the condemnations by the Arab League, and Iran and pretty much all of the big official bases are covered.

would be interesting to see what PREVIOUS denouncements of Islamic extremism that did NOT directly threaten THEM that they made.

And by the way since you like to ignore things like this can you point out anything like that from the Islamic communities in the US or UK or anyplaces like that?

OR actually any marches protesting Islamic extremism in the West?

Notice how you keep dodging that question

A lot. Just because you never pay attention doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. There were strong condemnations of 9/11, of Al Qaeda, of extremism in general, we see Islamic clerics assassinated all of the time for espousing moderate views in the face of radicals. Dozens this year alone. We've even seen considerable progress in the area of womens rights over the last several years within mainstream theological views including a denouncement of female genital mutilation from the head of the four main schools of Islamic Sunni though (which is based out of Egypt).

The Saudi governmental decision to designate the aforementioned groups as terror organizations is an implicit acknowledgment that the removal of al-Assad's regime by violence was no longer possible. Not because of US pressure. The Saudis (and Qataris) only made those designations out of necessity to formally address the inadvertent threat from Syria, which is the hyper influx of jihadi combatants returning from there.

[zolace]

Notice how you keep dodging that question

When was the last time that you participated in a march against Islamic extremism? How about radical Christian groups that engage in violence? How about against terrorist organizations that the US has supported like Jundallah? It's interesting that you keep dodging THAT question. The simple fact is that you have a clear double standard and expect others to do something that you can't even be bothered to get up and do yourself.

Are you eve qualified to make these assertions about the unavailability of public data? Even Wikileaks has made available reports detailing Saudi intelligence chief Bandar bin Sultan's post-US Ambassador directives to work with US administrations to strengthen Salafist jihadis against foreign Iranian-supported elements. There is a myriad of solid circumstantial evidence for someone not to presume that the Saudi-Salafist network is not active in Syria or not being supported by official al-Saud arms.

[sana8410]

Indeed, the Grand Mufi of Saudi Arabia, the Grand Mufti of Egypt, and the head of turkey's Islamic community have all publicly condemned the ISIS which rounds out the big Sunni three. Throw on top of that the condemnations by the Arab League, and Iran and pretty much all of the big official bases are covered.

would be interesting to see what PREVIOUS denouncements of Islamic extremism that did NOT directly threaten THEM that they made.

And by the way since you like to ignore things like this can you point out anything like that from the Islamic communities in the US or UK or anyplaces like that?

OR actually any marches protesting Islamic extremism in the West?

Notice how you keep dodging that question

A lot. Just because you never pay attention doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. There were strong condemnations of 9/11, of Al Qaeda, of extremism in general, we see Islamic clerics assassinated all of the time for espousing moderate views in the face of radicals. Dozens this year alone. We've even seen considerable progress in the area of womens rights over the last several years within mainstream theological views including a denouncement of female genital mutilation from the head of the four main schools of Islamic Sunni though (which is based out of Egypt).

The Saudi governmental decision to designate the aforementioned groups as terror organizations is an implicit acknowledgment that the removal of al-Assad's regime by violence was no longer possible. Not because of US pressure. The Saudis (and Qataris) only made those designations out of necessity to formally address the inadvertent threat from Syria, which is the hyper influx of jihadi combatants returning from there.

Incorrect, it was largely because of the threat that Saudi Arabia felt that such groups posed to its own governing abilities domestically. Your assertion also assumes that Saudi Arabia only would have an interest in completely removing Assad, while ignoring the potential political benefits of simply promoting instability through protracted conflict even if the supported side ended up losing (a pretty common tactic used within realist policy making).

[sana8410]

Notice how you keep dodging that question

When was the last time that you participated in a march against Islamic extremism? How about radical Christian groups that engage in violence? How about against terrorist organizations that the US has supported like Jundallah? It's interesting that you keep dodging THAT question. The simple fact is that you have a clear double standard and expect others to do something that you can't even be bothered to get up and do yourself.

Are you eve qualified to make these assertions about the unavailability of public data? Even Wikileaks has made available reports detailing Saudi intelligence chief Bandar bin Sultan's post-US Ambassador directives to work with US administrations to strengthen Salafist jihadis against foreign Iranian-supported elements. There is a myriad of solid circumstantial evidence for someone not to presume that the Saudi-Salafist network is not active in Syria or not being supported by official al-Saud arms.

Yes.
Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE less so than Saudi Arabia. Us pressure has been pretty instrumental in the past couple months in terms of cracking down on financial chains coming from Gulf States.

[sana8410]

Even Wikileaks has made available reports detailing Saudi intelligence chief Bandar bin Sultan's post-US Ambassador directives to work with US administrations to strengthen Salafist jihadis against foreign Iranian-supported elements.

That doesn't necessarily mean support for the IS.

There is a myriad of solid circumstantial evidence for someone not to presume that the Saudi-Salafist network is not active in Syria or not being supported by official al-Saud arms.

Of course they've supported Salafist organizations, all Salafists aren't the same though (all Salafist groups aren't even violent) and the question isn't do they support Salafists, its do they support the IS.