Bitcoin at the Pump, ideas

[DDuckworth]

I saw in a recent thread about how it would take forever to get bitcoin to be accepted at the pumps of gas stations due to most pumps not having internet access.  It got me thinking, what if instead of a bitcoin credit card styled solution, there was a QR code at the pump with a wallet address, sending BTC to that QR through your wallet address would notify a server inside the store and turn the pump on for the amount of bitcoin you sent?

What if you wanted to pump until your gas was full, would there be a way for the pump to check the amount available before you pumped, so that it could pull it afterward?

[giveBTCpls]

It should just convert how many liters of gas you've removed into it's btc equivalent, of course the problem is you would need an internet connection to keep the price updated. Interesting question anyway lets see if there is someone smarter around

[Lethn]

I think something like https://coinkite.com/ would be ideal it would be something you could easily implement at a standard gas station that counter but yeah putting it on the machines would be a bit more difficult.

[blatchcorn]

Let's face it, while there are interesting and creative solutions, the simplest option is for gas/petrol stations to get internet 

[Lethn]

Watch hackers immediately fuck with petrol stations when that happens blatchcorn, I'm actually really concerned about how everything is beginning to have an internet connection now.

[TheAccountant]

Murphy USA has a text/SMS service where the user can text (generating an ACH on their bank account) and they receive a code that can be used at the pump (which are connected to a network).  No reason the ACH couldn't be a Bitcoin transaction, saving the vendor even more money.

[iluvpie60]

I saw in a recent thread about how it would take forever to get bitcoin to be accepted at the pumps of gas stations due to most pumps not having internet access.  It got me thinking, what if instead of a bitcoin credit card styled solution, there was a QR code at the pump with a wallet address, sending BTC to that QR through your wallet address would notify a server inside the store and turn the pump on for the amount of bitcoin you sent?

What if you wanted to pump until your gas was full, would there be a way for the pump to check the amount available before you pumped, so that it could pull it afterward?

you can already load visa credit cards with bitcoin and it pays from your account. the main issue is that we are looking for too many ways to spend bitcoin with businesses. we need MORE people to spend the bitcoin right now, not more businesses to accept it(that sohuld be later). the demand for people to use bitcoin isn't high enough, we need tens of millions more using it before prices will start to go back up.

[frankenmint]

You guys need to talk to Andy Shroder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p1dyJ0Zy50

Keep one of these off towards the side - like how there is a one off diesel pump or two located within gas stations.

[CharHill]

I saw in a recent thread about how it would take forever to get bitcoin to be accepted at the pumps of gas stations due to most pumps not having internet access.  It got me thinking, what if instead of a bitcoin credit card styled solution, there was a QR code at the pump with a wallet address, sending BTC to that QR through your wallet address would notify a server inside the store and turn the pump on for the amount of bitcoin you sent?

What if you wanted to pump until your gas was full, would there be a way for the pump to check the amount available before you pumped, so that it could pull it afterward?

May be, i'm afraid. But i don't think, that it is so serrios problem.

[bradleyb5155]

That is the last thing we need.... The oil cartels getting involved in bitcoin

[Scoremaster]

u gotta remmeber. the more bitcoin gets involved in big business the more corrupt it will get. if oil companies accept bitcoin and just keep it they hold the power the more they get. just like how whales control the price if they decide to sell 10k at a time we all get huge price drops.

[TheAccountant]

Sad to me that people don't understand how general economics and risk work.  There is no reason for any company (including Oil and Gas) to hold bitcoins.  They are not in the business of currency speculation.  In fact, they would want to hedge any Bitcoin holdings they may have.  In the real world, they would receive and sell the coins immediately to avoid currency risk.

[herzmeister]

this can give rise to a new business model: a chain of unmanned gas stations.

Most probable name of a brand: Pump N' Dump of course.  

[justmy2cents]

What I'd really like is to be able to buy groceries at my local Kroger store with Bitcoin.

As for the gas pumps, there's always a clerk at the cash register. Do the Bitcoin transaction with the clerk.

[TheAccountant]

this can give rise to a new business model: a chain of unmanned gas stations.

Most probable name of a brand: Pump N' Dump of course.  

There have been unmanned pumps for quite some time.  They are usually reserved for fleet vehicles, but there are some consumer ones out there.  One company (I forget the name, but they are popular in California) have ATM connected pumps that allow you to pay for your gas.  Those could easily be retrofitted with multipurpose ATMs.

[adub]

Having worked in the payment processing space for 11 years before shifting to Bitcoin, I can shed some light on this problem.

The petro payments industry is the hardest to break into as it's a small industry where everyone knows everyone. There are less than 10 major petro POS solutions out there and the majority of businesses use the top 2 or 3. Trying to integrate Bitcoin payments into the pump is futile. It's completely outside the conventional process for them. What I mean is, all the payments go through their POS. That means that all the payments reports are generated in the POS system. Adding a payment method that is outside the POS is going to flop. The Bitcoin payments have to be integrated in the POS and nothing needs to change at the pump. Nothing can change at the pump. The reason is that the pumps are so expensive as are any changes or upgrades that occur. Again, we're talking about a small group of pump manufacturers.

The way to break into the petro market is to start with a well funded company. Hire a former payments industry executive who focused on petro and some developers who also understand payments and petro. Design a BIP 70 solution that will integrate into the major petro POS systems. Development costs from those POS manufacturers will be in the $2-$300,000 range and take at least 12 months. This is after the product has been designed and developed.

I've written more about this on my blog here...
http://blog.atlantabitcoin.com/bitcoin-payments-integration-part-2/
sorry for the slow load. effing wordpress...

*Edit: by saying nothing changes at the Pump, I don't mean pay at the pump cannot be accomplished. In fact pay at the pump is necessary to a viable integration strategy. But nothing needs to change (no new hardware or software) at the pump to accomplish that. The POS integration must allow for transactions to be initiated while at the pump but not through the pump.*

[mercistheman]

There are pumps in service that are intelligent enough to accept QR codes (like Dresser Wayne & Gilbarco)... Mobile uses this type of technology for their speed pass system... several brands offer loyalty programs that are fairly sophisticated...there are also pumps that can be retrofitted with a side box for passing payment codes to the POS system.
Besides the cost and durability challenges (would you stick a computer outside in minus 20 temp & freezing rain?) you have to deal with proprietary POS systems (the largest being RUBY)... these systems have to be able to map all types of transactions that are unique to the petroleum industry (ie underground fuel storage inventories, fuel shrink, agriculture tax discounts etc).... hence very little competition.
You simply can not afford to have delays at the pump with 4 cars stacked at each island.
If the demand is large enough it will force their hand... it took 8 years for Ruby to come out with an upgraded model...
I wouldn't count on the Petroleum fat cats to be early adapters.
The best way to start is to bypass the pump and go inside for your payment (they also accept cc inside)... then you can have a small device attached to a COM port and map the transaction as a separate payment key
btw, never blame a convenience store for the cost of gas... it is so competitive that they are lucky if they make 10 cents on a gallon (after numerous taxes)

[adub]

There are pumps in service that are intelligent enough to accept QR codes (like Dresser Wayne & Gilbarco)... Mobile uses this type of technology for their speed pass system... several offer loyalty programs that are fairly sophisticated...there are also pumps that can be retrofitted with a side box for passing payment codes to the POS system.

QR displays and NFC would be great ways to initiate a bitcoin transaction at the dispenser. Too bad newer models with those capabilities are very rare to find in the wild. In US markets anyway. Perhaps with all the changes we'll no doubt see with the conversion to EMV will be a catalyst for dispenser upgrades across the nation.

[poon-TANG]

There are pumps in service that are intelligent enough to accept QR codes (like Dresser Wayne & Gilbarco)... Mobile uses this type of technology for their speed pass system... several offer loyalty programs that are fairly sophisticated...there are also pumps that can be retrofitted with a side box for passing payment codes to the POS system.
Besides the cost and durability challenges you have to deal with proprietary POS systems (the largest being RUBY)... these systems have to be able to map all types of transactions that are unique to the petroleum industry (ie underground fuel storage inventories, fuel shrink, agriculture tax discounts etc).... hence very little competition.
If the demand is large enough it will force their hand... it took 8 years for Ruby to come out with an upgraded model...
I wouldn't count on the Petroleum fat cats to be early adapters.
btw, never blame a convenience store for the cost of gas... it is so competitive that they are lucky if they make 10 cents on a gallon (after numerous taxes)

10 cents is lucky...most of the stations here in WA only make about 5 cents. Plus gas is the lowest money making item a store sells. The fuel is just an added convenience. Cigarettes and beer the 1 and 2 money making items. I used to work on Gilbarco and Tokheim/GASBOY (and there are not called pumps anymore as they do not actually "pump", but "dispense" fuel...as why they are now called dispensers) dispensers and Gilbarco used to have color displays on the CRINDS. It also had the ability to offer internet via the G-Site but it really never took off. The RUBY console which is made by Verifone is a generic console. It has proprietary software dependent to the station branding (TEXACO, SHELL, CONOCO...etc) but you can load it with generic software.

[DDuckworth]

Watch hackers immediately fuck with petrol stations when that happens blatchcorn, I'm actually really concerned about how everything is beginning to have an internet connection now.

Definitely! I figured this method would allow the internet connectivity to remain far enough removed from the actual pump, that the effectiveness would be minimal.  However - what would stop anyone from slapping their own QR code overtop the original?

Murphy USA has a text/SMS service where the user can text (generating an ACH on their bank account) and they receive a code that can be used at the pump (which are connected to a network).  No reason the ACH couldn't be a Bitcoin transaction, saving the vendor even more money.

That's really awesome, it definitely would be a minimal changeover IMO.

you can already load visa credit cards with bitcoin and it pays from your account. the main issue is that we are looking for too many ways to spend bitcoin with businesses. we need MORE people to spend the bitcoin right now, not more businesses to accept it(that sohuld be later). the demand for people to use bitcoin isn't high enough, we need tens of millions more using it before prices will start to go back up.

Yeah, but I'm not worried about driving the price of bitcoin up, since I'm a daily currency styled user, the actual price per bitcoin hardly means anything to me, whether it's at $5 per or $1000 per, I just changeover the amount I need in order to pay for the transaction, or get paid for the transaction.  The individual price is negligible as far as I can tell.  While it would be nice for the amount of BTC i am holding to go up in value, I typically never hold more than 1 BTC at a time, meaning my gains would be minimal.

What I'd really like is to be able to buy groceries at my local Kroger store with Bitcoin.

As for the gas pumps, there's always a clerk at the cash register. Do the Bitcoin transaction with the clerk.

That would definitely be great, and truly the same process could be applied at a self-checkout aisle.  The only reason I came up with this is because on the other thread, they were discussing how a pay at the pump solution would increase adoption since most people don't want to go inside and talk to the clerk...many of us have social anxiety you know!