Hmmm -- is this the end of BTC in AUS? !! Furious !!

[gtraah]

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/australian-tax-office-decides-bitcoins-are-assets-not-currency-20140820-1063gq.html


I am absolutely furious about this and have a VERY bad feeling, I was actually in BTC for long term even if it went down to $40 per BTC, but this has got me really pissed and borderline edgy thinking if I should even bother anymore.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/latest/bitcoin-to-cop-gst-ato/story-e6frg90f-1227030976018?nk=fa025c20b23bd9e73e725988d137e0f2

I absolutely love this shit, and it really has got me down even more then if the price went to $300...

One thing I am keen to see is what  the owner of Coinjar said in the last link

"Melbourne-based Bitcoin company CoinJar’s co-founder Asher Tan said that while his company already has international expansion plans on the cards, the ATO’s guideline paper certainly gives businesses like CoinJar plenty to think about.

“But there are ways to work around the regime,” he said."


Guys what do you think? what would you do seriously? I mean taxed twice is an absolute PUNISH, who will do that just to buy anything with Bitcoin, no one will EVER buy bitcoin in AUS, and there goes yet another country on the BTC list!!

[Meuh6879]

you can't stop BTC.

[haploid23]

Bitcoin still runs perfectly fine no matter how much regulations (or lack thereof). No amount what laws are passed, it doesn't change bitcoin fundamentals or the protocol. I will admit that these kind of things are a bit of an inconvenience, but it can't completely kill btc, even if every country passes similar laws. Currently, the IRS in the US taxes bitcoin in the same way, except we get it even worst where it's considered as a currency in a different branch of the government.

In the US, it's effectively being taxes like property, but regulated as a currency.

[gtraah]

But I don't want to pay more than 15% on top of btc price. yes I know they can't stop it but they can destroy it's buying power and render it useless to use.. ...

[gtraah]

But do the US have to pay tax on each purchase of bitcoin? like from aud to btc we may have to pay tax .. like we pay tax on any good we buy GST it's called
http://www.coindesk.com/australian-bitcoin-industry-unhappy-tax-office-issues-guidelines/
above link , last 2 paragraphs before the 1st sub-heading have my hopes up

[geraFoerra]

But I don't want to pay more than 15% on top of btc price.

So you basically have to use exchanges outside AUS for not being charged +15%.

[seriouscoin]

But do the US have to pay tax on each purchase of bitcoin? like from aud to btc we may have to pay tax .. like we pay tax on any good we buy GST it's called
http://www.coindesk.com/australian-bitcoin-industry-unhappy-tax-office-issues-guidelines/
above link , last 2 paragraphs before the 1st sub-heading have my hopes up

LOL this is not a problem. You can use exchange outside of AU

This tax ruling is useless. Sooner or later, they will change it.

Non-business personal transactions using bitcoin would not be subject to income tax or GST. In such transactions, any capital gain or loss from disposal of the bitcoins will be disregarded if the value is under AUD$10,000 (USD$9,300).

Actually this seems better for avg person than in US, no capital gain tax for <$10,000 ?

[findftp]

But I don't want to pay more than 15% on top of btc price.

So you basically have to use exchanges outside AUS for not being charged +15%.

Or you have to use something like localbitcoins.
Buy them from someone else.
Although this method also introduces a premium

[seriouscoin]

But I don't want to pay more than 15% on top of btc price.

So you basically have to use exchanges outside AUS for not being charged +15%.

Or you have to use something like localbitcoins.
Buy them from someone else.
Although this method also introduces a premium

Nope, according to the guidance ..... the GST only apply to business tx. So localbitcoiners wont have to worry about double tax (otherwise, it would be impossible to enforce)


This guidance is so amusing, whoever came up with this dumbest idea should be shot.

[findftp]

But I don't want to pay more than 15% on top of btc price.

So you basically have to use exchanges outside AUS for not being charged +15%.

Or you have to use something like localbitcoins.
Buy them from someone else.
Although this method also introduces a premium

Nope, according to the guidance ..... the GST only apply to business tx. So localbitcoiners wont have to worry about double tax (otherwise, it would be impossible to enforce)


This guidance is so amusing, whoever came up with this dumbest idea should be shot.

Well, you can't blame people for being dumb.
Shooting them is a little bit over the top.
You'd better laugh at them, and take advantage of their stupidity.

[101111]

It seems to me they are clumsily trying to force a square peg into a round hole with potentially ugly consequences.

[LiteCoinGuy]

rules and laws can change in the future - in both ways.

[gtraah]

wait a minute, I might have read things wrong and my feelings are changing to , Thank goodness!


Let me get this straight, as per comments on reddit and all over the place.

I am a normal average Joe, I do not run a business and I only want to purchase Bitcoin to buy some products from NewEgg ....

I visit Coinjar.com, Cointree.com or igot.com as an Example, I then log into my account and say I want to purchase 2 x BTC for personal use.

Do these Exchanges Charge me 10% GST on these bitcoin that I buy of them? (Remember I am only a person of the street wanting to buy some BTC so I can purchase some online goods for Under $10,000) <<< This is the golden make or break question.

[101111]

wait a minute, I might have read things wrong and my feelings are changing to , Thank goodness!


Let me get this straight, as per comments on reddit and all over the place.

I am a normal average Joe, I do not run a business and I only want to purchase Bitcoin to buy some products from NewEgg ....

I visit Coinjar.com, Cointree.com or igot.com as an Example, I then log into my account and say I want to purchase 2 x BTC for personal use.

Do these Exchanges Charge me 10% GST on these bitcoin that I buy of them? (Remember I am only a person of the street wanting to buy some BTC so I can purchase some online goods for Under $10,000) <<< This is the golden make or break question.

Yes, as it stands you would pay 10% GST. If you buy 1 bitcoin at an exchange rate of AUD$500, your total price would be AUD$550.

[C64_4EVA]

I'm not concerned about these regulations at all. As countries start coming out with more and more ridiculous tax and AML/KYC regulations, I just add them to my list of countries to avoid. There will always be friendly jurisdictions where they still care about taking in business as opposed to bending over backwards for bureaucrats.

Australia no good anymore? No problem, just move your balances over to Hong Kong. Hong Kong goes down? Time to deal with Panamanian exchanges. 

[gtraah]

wait a minute, I might have read things wrong and my feelings are changing to , Thank goodness!


Let me get this straight, as per comments on reddit and all over the place.

I am a normal average Joe, I do not run a business and I only want to purchase Bitcoin to buy some products from NewEgg ....

I visit Coinjar.com, Cointree.com or igot.com as an Example, I then log into my account and say I want to purchase 2 x BTC for personal use.

Do these Exchanges Charge me 10% GST on these bitcoin that I buy of them? (Remember I am only a person of the street wanting to buy some BTC so I can purchase some online goods for Under $10,000) <<< This is the golden make or break question.

Yes, as it stands you would pay 10% GST. If you buy 1 bitcoin at an exchange rate of AUD$500, your total price would be AUD$550.

Well then that removes ALL the normal consumers out of Bitcoin, in all of Australia if thats how it stands... This Guys OzzyCoin on reddit seems like he says no, only if you are a business buying from an exchange you are to pay GST on it, not if your buying it for personal use and non-business, Exchanges will have to create 2 Buying options, 1 = Business Buys 2 = Individual Personal buys

If he is correct, then the ruling is actually pretty good

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2e1wpm/ato_tax_ruling_australia/

Check ozzycoin comments


Again - If normal people have to pay 10% GST just to get into bitcoin ROFL, there is no way in HELL ANYONE would be stupid enough to buy bitcoin, at the moment it is already a hassle to get Bitcoin, and ontop of the hassle charge 10% Ontop and then again when you purchase a product from australia ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Are these tax idiots dreamin or what? I cannot beleive that is the case for normal users, they basically just spat in the face of everyone in australia and said "YEH!! you want to buy BITCOIN?? OK DO IT , But you  going to GIVE US 10% Twice if you do , So suck a big fat one HA HA HA

[Beliathon]

[101111]

wait a minute, I might have read things wrong and my feelings are changing to , Thank goodness!


Let me get this straight, as per comments on reddit and all over the place.

I am a normal average Joe, I do not run a business and I only want to purchase Bitcoin to buy some products from NewEgg ....

I visit Coinjar.com, Cointree.com or igot.com as an Example, I then log into my account and say I want to purchase 2 x BTC for personal use.

Do these Exchanges Charge me 10% GST on these bitcoin that I buy of them? (Remember I am only a person of the street wanting to buy some BTC so I can purchase some online goods for Under $10,000) <<< This is the golden make or break question.

Yes, as it stands you would pay 10% GST. If you buy 1 bitcoin at an exchange rate of AUD$500, your total price would be AUD$550.

Well then that removes ALL the normal consumers out of Bitcoin, in all of Australia if thats how it stands... This Guys OzzyCoin on reddit seems like he says no, only if you are a business buying from an exchange you are to pay GST on it, not if your buying it for personal use and non-business, Exchanges will have to create 2 Buying options, 1 = Business Buys 2 = Individual Personal buys

If he is correct, then the ruling is actually pretty good

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2e1wpm/ato_tax_ruling_australia/

Check ozzycoin comments


Again - If normal people have to pay 10% GST just to get into bitcoin ROFL, there is no way in HELL ANYONE would be stupid enough to buy bitcoin, at the moment it is already a hassle to get Bitcoin, and ontop of the hassle charge 10% Ontop and then again when you purchase a product from australia ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Are these tax idiots dreamin or what? I cannot beleive that is the case for normal users, they basically just spat in the face of everyone in australia and said "YEH!! you want to buy BITCOIN?? OK DO IT , But you  going to GIVE US 10% Twice if you do , So suck a big fat one HA HA HA

Here's Ron Tucker's interpretation, which agrees with mine:

"The way they've chosen to interpret how it should be applied is unfortunately very stifling for emerging Australian digital currency businesses and the industry as a whole," said Ron Tucker, the chair of the Australian Digital Currency Commerce Association and a partner at BitTrade, a digital currency trading service.

"It's essentially a double GST effect. It is adding 10 per cent tax on the entire supply of the Bitcoin.

"So if the Bitcoin is worth $500 today, you'll be paying 10 per cent tax on that, as well as the GST on the service or commission fees that the Bitcoin companies may charge."

Mr Tucker said the ATO's view on Bitcoin will send business either offshore or underground.

"I've already heard from a number of our members that they are in the process of – or already have or will be – setting up shop offshore," he said.

source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-20/bitcoin-will-not-be-taxed-as-money-ato-says/5683974

[spazzdla]

This maybe the begining of a war for our freedom... can we become a free people once again?  Only time will tell.

[gtraah]

Yes and this is where I want to find out more.

When I first read what Ron tucker said that this is what I gathered then when I read the actual ATO draft directly from the ATO it is not said that way which leads me to beleive there is miss interpretation here, he possibly meant it for businesses, But I want to get more clarification on this.