Potential Games LLC - Island Forge BTC Discussion

[Nyhm]

This is highly speculative (i.e., not likely to happen unless folks are really interested), but I've been contemplating integrating Bitcoin into Island Forge in some form or another. I'm the sole developer of Island Forge, which is a player-created content MMORPG (with an old-school style), currently wrapping up open beta.

Minimally, I could add a town shop (maybe called a Bank) where players can send in BTC to get in-game currency (GP) for their character.

I have more ideas, which integrate more deeply with the gameplay, but let's focus on this first step.

Would you (as a player) buy GP for BTC? Please see the site (and try the open beta) to understand what the game is about and how GP is used. Like most things in Island Forge, old-school traditional elements are designed in a new unique way. For instance, even if your character has thousands of GP, you must still earn the resources and materials (from fighting creatures) required to craft weaponry, equipment, potions, spells, etc. GP is used for healing, leveling, and training, as well as crafting.

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[Phinnaeus Gage]

(maybe called a Bank)

To keep in the spirit, I suggest anything else besides Bank.

~Bruno~

[Nyhm]

(maybe called a Bank)

To keep in the spirit, I suggest anything else besides Bank.
~Bruno~

Right - of course - how institutional of me! Thanks for catching that, Bruno. A primary tenet of Bitcoin is no banks. I think the term would make sense to players, though. More technically, the in-world shop would represent a one-way Currency Exchange, but that's an awkward name. Any better name suggestions for an in-game shop where you can convert BTC into GP (the in-game currency)?

as i player i would want to use BTC directly for items , instead of buying GP then buying items

Thanks for your input on that, senbonzakura. My initial goal would be to integrate Bitcoin as a way to augment the game, not as a central feature in the world's item economy. A big part of playing Island Forge is earning items through a crafting process (which also requires GP). There would not be a direct BTC item market right away. Thank you for your comment, since this is exactly the kind of input I need from the Bitcoin community.

[fornit]

call it the "royal mint" or something...
or the alchemist. extra credit if you have to pay the alchemist in bitcoin and bring him some lead that he can transform into gold 

[Nyhm]

call it the "royal mint" or something...
or the alchemist. extra credit if you have to pay the alchemist in bitcoin and bring him some lead that he can transform into gold 

Brilliant - Mint is the perfect name for a direct BTC-to-GP shop. I also love the Alchemist concept, because it would require a gameplay integration (earning Lead) to get the GP. Suppose the Alchemist gives a better exchange rate than the Mint, because you had to accomplish in-game tasks to earn the required Lead. If you just want the GP immediately, visit the Mint.

This is so compelling that I've made a task for such a feature in Island Forge. The first step would just be a working Mint. However, I do not know if I will attempt it for 1.0. I'm wrapping up beta, and this would introduce a significant new feature. Nonetheless, let's continue this great discussion:

Next Question: How likely are players to buy GP with BTC, when GP can also be earned by other means in the game? I suppose this is all a matter of balance. To be wildly speculative, how would players feel if I shut off all other means of earning GP, requiring you to spend BTC at the Mint (or Alchemist) to advance in the world? This might be interesting for Bitcoin at large, but would anyone actually play?

Thanks for your suggestions, as well, senbonzakura! I'm excited to here more community input.

[fornit]

free to play games have different ways to deal with this. one is to sell something that gives a advantage you cant earn otherwise, like special objects with convenient abilities you dont necessarily need to enjoy the game, like skins, teleports between save places, extra storage space or small stat boosts. another one is to allow paying customers faster leveling or just buying leveled characters.
you are suggesting a variation of the latter. in my experience, one dollar or euro usually buys you are several hours of advancement. so for games where you can play more than 100 hours, possibly playing multiple characters, you can easily pay the equivalent of multiple month of subscription if you dont like the low-level grinding.
in my opinion, games that still offer a good experience when you are not willing to pay money work best, since they are much more likely to gain the necessary amount of players.
in a big player base, there will always be players that dont like playing the early game.
but conveniece items can work very well too. for example, if you have to walk back to town every 30 minutes for 1 minute or instead buy town portal scrolls for 1-2 cent real money, people will buy them. that wont make you rich but if there are few more useful things to buy its not that hard to spend as much as on a regular subscription. and the low price of each single item makes it very very easy to just spend a few dimes now and then even for players who would never buy a subscription or a pre-leveled character for 10-20$.
its soooo hard to resist, especially if the payment option is so easy that the drug of choice is just a copy&paste away *g*

a negative example: i once tried a game where you had to pay real money for crafting recipes, all but the most basic backpacks and even health potions. it was a total disaster. emptiest game ever. the free to play part was way too hard and and missed a big part of the most addictive mechanics of mmorpgs.

[Ente]

Nice to see more movement again in the Bitcoin+Gaming department!

I, personally, would not buy in-game items for real-world money. Not because of the money (I payd monthly fees before), but because I want to do that stuff by myself. Including grinding several days for a silly, useless pet dragon. That was many years ago, but still.. ;-)

There seems to be a big market for such semi-useless prestige things. Like special pets and mounts for special-edition buyers, for example. That stuff gets expensive on ebay too!

I suggest that everything is possible without paying (monthly fees not counted here). Even if it is ten times slower to reach the same by "hand". A lot of people would probably not join or quit once they understand paying BTC as inevitable.


So the BTC thing is strictly one-way? You cant dump a bag of GP and receive Bitcoin? If you implemented that, you have a good chance to make it viral instantly. Sure, you will have lots and lots of farmers (if it all works well). But with some clever algo it should work, automatically adjusting the buy and sell price according to the in-game market. Even if the sell price is just a tenth of the buy price, there will be farmers (kiddies and professionals) as well as buyers.
Don't underestimate virability and crowds :-)
(Again, Stephenson's REAMDE comes to mind..)

Ente

[Nyhm]

Preface: This post has become rather long, but I wanted to document my thought process, to give the Bitcoin community a look at what must be considered before embracing Bitcoin in a non-Bitcoin-centric project (that is, not a business that exists solely because of Bitcoin), which is something I think is really lacking in the world of Bitcoin at large.

Wonderful comments, fornit and Ente. I've been devoting a great deal of thought to all manner of subscription vs. freemium. Currently, I'm considering something in the middle. This is still highly speculative, but  I really appreciate community input, so I'll briefly describe it here, and would appreciate any feedback folks can provide:

Tentative Plan: In addition to the in-game currency (GP), integrate a secondary currency called Island Points (IP), which can be used to buy specialty features, which are not directly tied to character development. They'd be conveniences, including items such as fornit suggested, as well as other upgrades (character slots, island slots, maybe specialty tilesets, cosmetic avatar enhancements, etc.). IP can only be gained by spending USD or BTC.

Whether IP can be traded for GP (or vice versa) is a big question. Ente suggested that everything should be attainable via the in-game currency (GP), even if ridiculously expensive (which then becomes a matter of GP-to-IP exchange rate and balance). This is only tangentially related to Bitcoin, but community input is welcome.

More specific to Bitcoin, I've given a good deal of thought to the prospect of cashing out BTC, as Ente mentioned. I have a number of ideas, but wonder about the business concerns of such an approach. As an aside, to emphasize that I am quite serious about Bitcoin+Games, I'd like to mention that I've drafted the design for an MMO game which is all about BTC (spending and earning). However, I must get Island Forge off the ground (with or without BTC) before even considering another game.

I designed Island Forge before Bitcoin existed, yet I see the potential for Bitcoin in this game. As Ente suggests, there could be viral interest just for the sake of having a Bitcoin MMORPG (especially if the game lets you earn it). Although I have the technical capability to do this, I'm at the point in development (wrapping up beta) where I must be very cautious about introducing whole new systems. Nonetheless, I'm extremely eager/tempted to actually start using Bitcoin (beyond general donations and experimentation).

Question: What's the level of interest in Island Forge (or any game) accepting BTC as an alternative to USD, without any gameplay-related integration? Is the Bitcoin community only really interested in projects that exist expressly for the sake of moving Bitcoin around (which seems to be the predominant case)?

I hope the community recognizes my reasons for hesitation and appreciates that I'm giving this serious consideration. Again,  much of this post is to document my business/thought process, and I hope someone finds it instructive. More insights from the Bitcoin+Game community are most welcome, and I thank you for your interest.

[HostFat]

I think that you can try to use the same idea of the next auction house on blizzard games.
You can make some items hard to drop in-game, and people will be able to exchange them in an in-game auction house.
They will chose the price IN GP, and you will take a cut. ( ex: 0.9% )

[Ente]

I want to be able to say create a thief class character and steal BTC from other players or from guild HQ 'bank'

I don't think that is a good idea.. It seems too scary for the targeted audience, which is youngsters with much time but low/no money. Getting 0.1 Bitcoin stolen will be reason enough to quit for some of them.
Remember all the drama caused here in the forum by individuals who probably lost single-digit Bitcoin on one of the scams?
In WoW, for example, you don't even lose gear when you die. You have some penalty, but no experience or gear or gold is lost.

Ente

[Nyhm]

Thanks for the continued input, folks. Island Forge does not have PvP, and I have no plan to add PvP any time soon (that would be a v2.0 thing, if ever). Not that it's a bad idea, just that it doesn't really fit the game. Nonetheless, I like hearing all the different perspectives.

[Ente]

but it makes the game more fun that way, you could have 2 servers , one for young audience , the other for those who want serious PvP

otherwise i wouldn't be interested , there are plenty of other games i would rather play that have PvP

what will be the unique selling point of the game, what would make me interested and play (for me btc currency in the game + PvP)

I am all for PvP! It is indeed more fun and more immersive.
But then, if players calculate through chances and don't take risks because loss of "real stuff" is imminent, the fun surely lessens. I want to be able to annoy other players which are two heads above me, get killed eventually, have some lulz and not lose real world assets or too much time (by losing experience, gold, items).
Thats my, more or less recreational, view.

But then, with nyhm's last post, it is clear now anyway.

Ente