...

[franky1]

This happens all the time unfortunately. Banks are scared silly of Bitcoin.  Cryptocurrency is a direct and tangible threat to the fractional reserve banking ponzi scheme...

thats true, but then there are scammers like yourself moriarty, which make your statements a little hypocritical

[johnyj]

From my experience (2 closed bank accounts), banks just don't have time and effort to deal with those security charges by the finance inspection organization, so they shutdown your account to buy some peace

If you buy and sell bitcoins privately, you will get many strange scam and payments from illegal activities like stolen accounts, selling drug or weapon, and money laundering scheme. Naturally the law enforcement will find your account info during some mission and ask bank why you are connected with such people

Since you don't personally know these guys, so you are not responsible, banks security department can't charge you, but they would simply shutdown your account to avoid further trouble

I don't think they really care threat of bitcoin, bitcoin still worth so little, not worth worrying. If bitcoin really takes off and become some star investment, they can even make money out of it (providing physical secure storage, exchange, insurance etc...they have very strong security infrastructure, which bitcoin community are lacking)

[franky1]

From my experience (2 closed bank accounts), banks just don't have time and effort to deal with those security charges by the finance inspection organization, so they shutdown your account to buy some peace

If you buy and sell bitcoins privately, you will get many strange scam and payments from illegal activities like stolen accounts, selling drug or weapon, and money laundering scheme. Naturally the law enforcement will find your account info during some mission and ask bank why you are connected with such people

Since you don't personally know these guys, so you are not responsible, banks security department can't charge you, but they would simply shutdown your account to avoid further trouble

I don't think they really care threat of bitcoin, bitcoin still worth so little, not worth worrying. If bitcoin really takes off and become some star investment, they can even make money out of it (providing physical secure storage, exchange, insurance etc...)

johny J:
did you ever have any wire transfer reversal requests made against you by 'chargeback scammers' or are you hypothesizing potential reasons?

[haploid23]

You don't need an MSB license to trade Bitcoin, period. It's considered property, not currency.

Is this a joke? You obviously have not been keeping up with recent legalities when it comes to buying/selling bitcoins. Our US government is confused as hell when categorizing bitcoin. One branch (IRS) claims it as property, hence will get taxed as such, but another branch (FINCEN) deems it as a currency.

What do you think happened to Mike Caldwell and his Casascius coins? Do you think he just stopped making them because he got bored of making money? This is exactly why TitanBTC now has license and is regulated by FINCEN before selling their coins.

Every Bitcoin trader on this forum is breaking the law according to you. I'd bet no one who actively deals Bitcoin on here or localbitcoins has an MSB. You don't really need it unless you're a big company like Coinbase or Bitpay.

Each country has different laws and regulation for bitcoin, but individuals complying with government rules is another matter. In the US, any time you make a capital gain, you should pay taxes on it to the IRS. Do you think most people even bother to do this? Do you personally file taxes when doing bitcoin transactions? So yes, a lot of people do not comply with capital gain taxes, nor MSB license. And it's not "according to me", I do not make up these regulations.

When you do small transactions for buying and selling btc for leisure, then it's probably ok to not be registered through FINCEN. But the fact that you have a LLC business dedicated to crypto trading means that you should get a license. It's going through a BUSINESS account, not a personal account.

"You don't really need it [MSB] unless you're a big company like Coinbase or Bitpay." <-- Can you please cite where you got this info, or is it your own opinion?

[franky1]

This would be a reasonable explanation if I did any bank transactions with people, but I didn't. No one deposited to my account, nor did I send or receive any wires.

I think this is part of the reason banks ban Bitcoin users though, since they expect that sorta thing to happen eventually.

so if you never done any banking involving bitcoin. then how on earth did the banks link you as being a bitcoiner??

after all they can only stop it for bitcoin purposes, if they knew you were into bitcoins. so explain to me how you became linked as being a bitcoin user??

[franky1]

ok cheers for your explanation.

in the UK i told my bank manager (local branch not the HQ) that my business plan was bitcoin related and so far 'touch wood' my bank manager loves me, and had no issues.

other people in the UK fall into 2 categories why their accounts were stopped

1. they didnt mention it was bitcoin related but got wire transfer reversal scammed and the scammer mentioned bitcoin which made the victims (account holder) account frozen due to an inconsistency as to what his 'business' was

2. the standard income (job/social security payment) was small vs the amount of funds going back and forth which could be deemed as laundering.

not many were having accounts shut down purely on the basses of mentioning bitcoin as many of them had active accounts for a couple years with full banks knowledge of it being bitcoin related.

i guess that in america just mentioning bitcoin when opening a new account must be an issue. especially if you never been a victim to a chargeback or were dealing with more money movement then your normal weekly income.

one last question.

Some of those transactions were out of this business account that got shutdown, but it's not like the transactions explicitly said Bitcoin, they just said Venmo/PayPal.

ever been paypal chargeback scammed, which put your paypal into negative balance where you had to fill it up using your business account because of a paypal demand for funds?

[SunBin]

A review of your posting history reveals you aren't just trading through exchanges but also sell directly. No wonder you were banned.

Yes, my business is entirely based on buying Bitcoin near market rate and then selling to individuals. I learned the hard way that banks don't allow this sort of business. That being said, I only used the bank account to purchase Bitcoins, not as a medium to receive money from customers.

Did you do a lot of ACH between banks?

That alone will raise a lot of red flag even if you are not dealing with bitcoin.

[franky1]

im prepared to think that the reason for turtlehurricane's scenario to be due purely based on mentioning that the account's business plan was bitcoin related, as appose to any actually money movements flagging it..

but then i keep reading turtle hurricane say that

I didn't do any ACH transactions with my Wells Fargo accounts.

yet also saying

Some of those transactions were out of this business account that got shutdown, but it's not like the transactions explicitly said Bitcoin, they just said Venmo/PayPal.

so i am hesitant to rule out the chance that it could be related to a flag due to a funds movement..

and i think others who are trying to figure out if there are any patterns to bank closures, have picked up on this point. he either used the bank account to send or receive money. or the account never had a single dime in it, ever.. it cant be both

[Slingshot]

 

Don't do any business at all with any Too Big too Fail Banks & Corporations!
===============================================

 Don't Reward Failure with Bailouts and Bonuses!

 Real Capitalism never has and never will reward failure.


Welcome to Corporate Fascism and centrally planned communistic tendencies.
=================================================
http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list


STOP aiding and abetting the worst enemies of Capitalism!
=====================================

 Switch over to local and regional banks, or credit unions, that DIDN'T receive any bailouts.
http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

 If your financial institution is on the following list it is your civic duty to close those accounts:
http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list


 They LOST.

 They Failed.
http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

 They must be allowed to fail. Same for the shareholders & bondholders.

 And stronger hands must be allowed to take over the reins.

 What part of any of this do you folks not comprehend?

 Instead we drag this Greater Depression out for decades and enable the same losers to stay
in power and control, while being made 100% whole in their illegal hordes of wealth that they
all rightfully lost back by the end of 2008.

 GET REAL.
=======

 Reality Check:
==========

 No one is going to bail YOU out should you fail. Nor should they. And nothing is too big to fail.
In fact all the banks are far too large to ever be bailed out. Same for GM & Chrysler, and scores
more. Nothing is ever to big to fail except society itself, and maybe...certain smaller depositors
as a safeguard against corporate misbehavior. http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list


A Lesson in Capitalism
==============

 Capitalism is like Nature in that it is self balancing. It's the finest thing ever devised, and it's
currently no longer practiced in the USA, the U.K., and Europe.

 The biggest banks were all found guilty of serious felonies. So far no one has been brought
to any sense of justice, let alone sent to the failure bin. Mere fines that amount to chump change
for these corporate felons is further insult to injury. http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list


What to do:
========

 CLOSE ALL YOUR ACCOUNTS at Failed Institutions until their turned over to stronger hands.
All shareholders and bondholders must also fail too. No one is above the law. No one must be
allowed to be above the law. http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

 And stick all that nonsense straight up your commie/fascist/corporate asshole if you don't 100%
agree. Also prepare to be financially destroyed along with your corporate masters,
You corporate parasitical maggots! http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

(if you believe in bailouts for failure your a parasitical maggot).
http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

 Capitalism died along with America a long time ago. While we were all sleepwalking.
=====================================================

 Wake UP and do your civic duties. Or soon you will find out first hand how awful corporate fascism
and centrally planned communistic planning truly is for yourselves, if not already.

example: The Fed is a centrally planned committee of private, criminal banksters, anserable to no one,
whom are your real masters, as well as the USA's masters until told otherwise. Their your centrally
planned phony-communist/neo-fascist masters. Get over it. That's the real truth you cannot yet accept.


 CAPITALISM NEVER REWARDS FAILURE. Their Losers. Capitalism never rewards Losers & crooks.
=============================================================

 What next? Maybe more Bailouts & Bonuses for more failure just to add insult to injury? O wait, they
will insiston that too,  just to keep their underlings from squealing on their own corporate bosses by crying
foul.  Or instead straight out robbing your bank accounts with Bank "bail-in's". Yes, that's next. Brace to be
robbed, AGAIN, one way or another. Until finally we decide not to allow such grave injustices and harms by
rewarding any more FAILURES.

 What will it take to get it through all your thick heads? Really? What will it take?

 CAPITALISM NEVER REWARDS FAILURE.
http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list


 Satoshi Nakamoto with his Bitcoin genius creation understands this.


Bitcoin is Monetary Freedom.

[franky1]

I definitely used the bank to send money through venmo/paypal, but didn't receive any money, besides cash deposits I made myself. It could be due to funds movement, but it was a very small amount of activity compared to what I move through my personal account at another bank.

In total I moved a little over $9,000 through the account over the course of 5 months, which is pretty much nothing for a business bank account.

but technically you did receive money.. the $9k got into the account somehow.. lol

so $1800 a month for 5 months, did the bank know your standard income and was standard income below $1800 a month?
was any of the funding paypal due to a negative balance that caused paypal to request funding due to a chargeback scammer?

i dont need to know numbers, just yes or no will do. and sorry if getting personal, we simply want to get an idea of circumstances that could highlight banks decisions, rather than speculate based on lack of info

[haploid23]

Well I don't think you need to know this level of detail for account closure. The mere fact that turtlehurricane named his business "USA Crypto Coins LLC" makes it pretty obvious to what he does. C'mon, banks are not that dumbfounded. By now, they're well aware of bitcoin and crypto currency in general.

Majority of the gnomes that work at the physical branch still won't have a clue what bitcoin is. It's the ones in the back office (customers can't reach them) that has the authority of make the decision on account closures based on what they see. These guys are the ones that are fully aware and trained to spot for certain patterns and types of activity. Your business name just makes it so much more easier for them.

[hdbuck]

real bitcoin businesses dont need bank accounts.

[CoinsForTech]

real bitcoin businesses dont need bank accounts.

Err.. How will we pay our suppliers? Or our couriers? Or our rent? Staff accept BTC but that's the easy one.

[CoinsForTech]

real bitcoin businesses dont need bank accounts.

Err.. How will we pay our suppliers? Or our couriers? Or our rent? Staff accept BTC but that's the easy one.

I would say it's possible to deal BTC without bank accounts, if you use reload-able cards (moneypak and vanilla). So you just keep the cash in your house, and if you need $500 of BTC go out and get a moneypak. You buy $500 worth of BTC, and send $450 worth to the customer, and then sell your BTC profits in the next order. Then when you sell your BTC profits you have cash, and the cycle continues.  

That's obviously extremely limited though, no way to pay suppliers online. Venmo is my #1 way to pay for BTC so it would be horrible not to have that. And your cash could burn up in a house fire.

You have couriers I need to get on your level lol

Couriers for shipping our products, not driving us around

The issue for us is that we deal with suppliers who do not accept bitcoin. It's ironic really. We purchase $10,000USD+ worth of products each week using our bank account and it is significantly more expensive and slower than using BTC. Bitcoin could potentially revolutionize B2B sales and we are pushing for our suppliers to get involved. Unfortunately only one has listened to us and is now accepting bitcoin. The others simply do not understand it and have shown no interest in wanting to change.

[hloren70]

The moral of this story: DO NOT open business bank accounts if you have a Bitcoin business. Almost every bank in the country will shut you down for being involved with Bitcoin, even if you barely use the account.

I think the true moral of this story is do not open a bank account in the US, period. Even if you are in the US, there are still plenty of non-US banks that will take you as a customer.

Govt, banks, the police... seems like everyone has forgotten who is serving who.

[Ruzka]

I love how they always close your account and refuse to actually give you a reason why.

[haploid23]

I love how they always close your account and refuse to actually give you a reason why.

It's for liability issues. If they give you a reason, you can use it to sue them. If they don't disclose the reason, it's much harder to legally sue them. This info is straight from the horse's mouth.

[bornil267645]

Bitcoin has come this far purely due to the determination of its users and we guarantee, it won't falter. hang in their brother

[countryfree]

I guess the only way to go is to stay underground. I have bank accounts in several countries, and I think none of the banks I'm using knows I'm doing some business with BTC. Actually, only a very little part of my business is in BTC, and I avoid making large movements, only small wires or cash deposits and withdrawals, so it would be hard to notice anything.

[NWO]

Looks like you are considered competition