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Author Topic: 7-day auction: 1784.38 BTC in Shakaru debt  (Read 5406 times)
Raoul Duke
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April 01, 2012, 06:01:32 PM
 #21

It would be one of the greatest heists in the bitcoin community if shakaru ends up winning this auction below his original debt Tongue

Is he even allowed to bid? Roll Eyes

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April 01, 2012, 06:01:58 PM
 #22

why doesn't he just declare bankruptcy I read through that whole thread, and seems like that is what bankruptcy is for, he is suffering physically because of a bad business move.

What's the bad business move he made? How can someone possibly lend 4000 BTC and lose not part of it, but all? =/

**disclosure: I am completely clueless on what happened**

One day, you go out for drinks and take a bit money to pay for it, telling yourself you'll put pay it back tomorrow.  Another day, you get evicted, so you take another few thousand BTC out, again telling yourself you'll put it back later.  You can't cover it with your own money, so you ask for more loans, and more loans, do more deals, more businesses, etc.
I doubt skakaru ever went into this planning on losing all the money or scamming people in any way.

If it happened at all as you described its pure criminal and not to be taken lightly. Why should people borrowing BTC and throwing it away with "good intentions" be treated any different than businesses who pay above earnings to CEO's and then declaring bankruptcy. We wouldnt go out of our way to state those businesses had the greatest intentions but failed only due to forgetting to put money back.

People pay themself more than they should since they speculate on future performances, its bad business and should be treated as criminal.

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April 01, 2012, 06:39:28 PM
 #23

35 BTC.

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April 01, 2012, 08:41:51 PM
 #24

why doesn't he just declare bankruptcy I read through that whole thread, and seems like that is what bankruptcy is for, he is suffering physically because of a bad business move.

What's the bad business move he made? How can someone possibly lend 4000 BTC and lose not part of it, but all? =/

**disclosure: I am completely clueless on what happened**

One day, you go out for drinks and take a bit money to pay for it, telling yourself you'll put pay it back tomorrow.  Another day, you get evicted, so you take another few thousand BTC out, again telling yourself you'll put it back later.  You can't cover it with your own money, so you ask for more loans, and more loans, do more deals, more businesses, etc.
I doubt skakaru ever went into this planning on losing all the money or scamming people in any way.

If it happened at all as you described its pure criminal and not to be taken lightly. Why should people borrowing BTC and throwing it away with "good intentions" be treated any different than businesses who pay above earnings to CEO's and then declaring bankruptcy. We wouldnt go out of our way to state those businesses had the greatest intentions but failed only due to forgetting to put money back.

People pay themself more than they should since they speculate on future performances, its bad business and should be treated as criminal.

I do NOT support shakaru in any way.  What I am saying is that he was irresponsible.  I myself am running a bitcoin investment fund.  My reserve account that I have for covering defaults with my own cash is not to be touched under any circumstances.  It would be morally wrong, irrational, and irresponsible for me to go messing around with the funds that I put up to cover any losses the fund incurs.  If funds are off limits, don't touch them.  I follow that rule, but for some reason shakaru didn't.

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April 01, 2012, 09:27:57 PM
 #25

It would be one of the greatest heists in the bitcoin community if shakaru ends up winning this auction below his original debt Tongue

Is he even allowed to bid? Roll Eyes

anyone bidding on this auction should have the capacity pay their bid amount within a reasonable timeframe - eg. 48 hours.
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April 01, 2012, 09:35:57 PM
 #26

35.6876 BTC (2%)

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
Raoul Duke
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April 01, 2012, 09:43:27 PM
 #27

Less risk on Pirate's lending program...

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April 01, 2012, 11:39:13 PM
 #28

It would be one of the greatest heists in the bitcoin community if shakaru ends up winning this auction below his original debt Tongue

Didn't something similar happen in The Brothers Karamazov (Dostoevsky)?

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April 01, 2012, 11:54:32 PM
 #29

why doesn't he just declare bankruptcy I read through that whole thread, and seems like that is what bankruptcy is for, he is suffering physically because of a bad business move.

Looks like chapter 7 is the way to go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_13,_Title_11,_United_States_Code#External_links

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April 02, 2012, 12:11:24 AM
 #30

35.6876 BTC (2%)

thanks burt, and thanks everyone else for all the off-topic replies, it keeps the thread on the front page.
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April 02, 2012, 12:33:20 AM
 #31

It would be one of the greatest heists in the bitcoin community if shakaru ends up winning this auction below his original debt Tongue

Is he even allowed to bid? Roll Eyes

I thought about this, him bidding on his own debt will only push up the amount higher. Assuming he has the money he should let someone else win, then just pay it off. Why keep bidding it up, seems silly:/

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
Trolling
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
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April 02, 2012, 12:37:46 AM
 #32

It would be one of the greatest heists in the bitcoin community if shakaru ends up winning this auction below his original debt Tongue

Is he even allowed to bid? Roll Eyes

I thought about this, him bidding on his own debt will only push up the amount higher. Assuming he has the money he should let someone else win, then just pay it off. Why keep bidding it up, seems silly:/

the only reason he shouldn't be bidding imho is that any money he has should be going into the pot, not spending on other things such as 1 creditor's debt. him bidding on this debt wouldn't be fair to the other creditors.

anyway, there's no way real way to know whether burtwagner = shakaru or burtwagner != shakaru so it's a bit pointless even worrying about it.

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April 02, 2012, 12:38:33 AM
 #33

It would be one of the greatest heists in the bitcoin community if shakaru ends up winning this auction below his original debt Tongue

Is he even allowed to bid? Roll Eyes

I thought about this, him bidding on his own debt will only push up the amount higher. Assuming he has the money he should let someone else win, then just pay it off. Why keep bidding it up, seems silly:/

Considering no one would bid more than the original debt, its possible he could get the final bid at less than total debt Wink

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April 02, 2012, 12:39:12 AM
 #34

If I get the debt for my current 2% bid then I am hoping that he will pay more than 2% on his total debt - I get a profit for anything he pays above 2%.

If he buys the debt then he can make a "profit" on his own debt.

But, really, where is he going to get the BTC to buy his own debt - he is broke, right?

I am not him.  There I have proved it Wink

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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April 02, 2012, 05:30:49 AM
 #35

It would be one of the greatest heists in the bitcoin community if shakaru ends up winning this auction below his original debt Tongue

Is he even allowed to bid? Roll Eyes

I thought about this, him bidding on his own debt will only push up the amount higher. Assuming he has the money he should let someone else win, then just pay it off. Why keep bidding it up, seems silly:/

the only reason he shouldn't be bidding imho is that any money he has should be going into the pot, not spending on other things such as 1 creditor's debt. him bidding on this debt wouldn't be fair to the other creditors.

anyway, there's no way real way to know whether burtwagner = shakaru or burtwagner != shakaru so it's a bit pointless even worrying about it.
If he is able to pay enough to the pool such that your cut of the payout is greater than or equal to his bid, I don't see any problem with this. Of course, if he is able to come up with the money so quickly, he'd be bound to be outbid since if he ever would make another payment, anything on top of what he bid (since it'd have to be guaranteed for him to bid at all) would be free. Thus, it would only make sense for him to participate if he was able to pay off the entire debt at once. Of course, he'd just be buying the whole debt entirely at that point, since he'd have to bid the maximum amount in order to not be out-bid.

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April 02, 2012, 06:09:12 AM
 #36

Not knowing all the terms of the pooled repayment system that imsaguy worked out with creditors, what leverage is there in terms of collections?

By this I mean purely legal means, not illegal harassment.

As with anything BTC related absolutely nothing guarantees it he can walk away from his obligations any time he wants.

That's not at all true.

I'm asking about the original contract.  If I'm burdened by clauses such as "I will never file a lien against your property or seize assets," my ability to apply pressure to encourage remuneration is reduced, as would be my bid for this debt.

At the right price, it becomes worth it to me (or anyone) to seize his property or provide material support to imsaguy (if this debt is no longer severable from the class of creditors) to do the same.  I'll take a chunk of the restitution funded by the forfeiture of his car, his computer, or his vintage prurient daguerrotype collection, if such were to exist.

So, DILLIGAF, since you don't know anything about the question I asked, I will ask more specifically.

payb.tc or imsaguy, were there any agreed upon or otherwise implied terms limiting the means of recapture of value in the event of a default?  Was the original agreement priced in fiat, even indirectly?  (As in "x USD in BTC")

Gracias!
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April 02, 2012, 06:14:39 AM
 #37

At the right price, it becomes worth it to me (or anyone) to seize his property or provide material support to imsaguy (if this debt is no longer severable from the class of creditors) to do the same.  I'll take a chunk of the restitution funded by the forfeiture of his car, his computer, or his vintage prurient daguerrotype collection, if such were to exist.

Since there is no security in place through a binding contract any such action would get you arrested.
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April 02, 2012, 06:21:41 AM
 #38

It would be one of the greatest heists in the bitcoin community if shakaru ends up winning this auction below his original debt Tongue
I'd pay 5 BTC to see that!

Get him in here!

Donations are welcome!
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April 02, 2012, 06:26:29 AM
 #39

Not knowing all the terms of the pooled repayment system that imsaguy worked out with creditors, what leverage is there in terms of collections?

By this I mean purely legal means, not illegal harassment.

As with anything BTC related absolutely nothing guarantees it he can walk away from his obligations any time he wants.

That's not at all true.

I'm asking about the original contract.  If I'm burdened by clauses such as "I will never file a lien against your property or seize assets," my ability to apply pressure to encourage remuneration is reduced, as would be my bid for this debt.

At the right price, it becomes worth it to me (or anyone) to seize his property or provide material support to imsaguy (if this debt is no longer severable from the class of creditors) to do the same.  I'll take a chunk of the restitution funded by the forfeiture of his car, his computer, or his vintage prurient daguerrotype collection, if such were to exist.

So, DILLIGAF, since you don't know anything about the question I asked, I will ask more specifically.

payb.tc or imsaguy, were there any agreed upon or otherwise implied terms limiting the means of recapture of value in the event of a default?  Was the original agreement priced in fiat, even indirectly?  (As in "x USD in BTC")

Gracias!

the original contract was for a 20GH/s rig for 6 months. i paid 1800 BTC for this back in september. there was no paper agreement, no signatures. this was done through the forum and a little conversation over the phone.

although the initial price was worked out on the basis of his USD figures, the original rounded price quoted to me and paid by me was the flat BTC figure. the returns to be generated were purely going to coins coming off the hashes... at no stage did i ever figure USD into my investment, i just wanted to grow my coinage.

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April 02, 2012, 06:32:40 AM
 #40

It would be one of the greatest heists in the bitcoin community if shakaru ends up winning this auction below his original debt Tongue

burt=shakaru -    that's one of the funniest things I have ever heard Smiley

would bid but not against friends...

"We are just fools. We insanely believe that we can replace one politician with another and something will really change. The ONLY possible way to achieve change is to change the very system of how government functions. Until we are prepared to do that, suck it up for your future belongs to the madness and corruption of politicians."
Martin Armstrong
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