I went to Meze Grill today and paid with VISA

[terrytibbs]

Too much hassle for close to zero benefit.

Fixed that for you.

The merchant saves on Visa/Mastercard + banking fees when using bitcoin. Please stop spreading FUD.

Bit-Pay charges 2.69%, versus Square's (credit card processor) 2.75%.

Go do some research before you post stupid shit.

[blablahblah]

Perhaps, we're missing something. An extra oomph for B&M's that would make Bitcoin tower above all else that's currently available. What that oomph is, at the moment I'ven't a clue. But with all the bright minds here, I'm confident that oomph will manifest itself.

I'm going to have more to say on this important issue, but I'll end this post with only the thoughts above.

~Bruno~

The recent news about Visa/Mastercard security breaches is like a gift from the gods. There must be some way to combine that into a sales pitch.

Come to think of it, one thing that I suspect may work against people who are trying to promote Bitcoin, is their altruism, believe it or not! People are so accustomed to sales pitches that if they can't see how you're supposed to benefit by charitably promoting Bitcoin, they immediately suspect it's some kind of scam. It's probably better to promote a Bitcoin-based product that provides some direct benefit to you, because it ironically seems more honest to the layperson.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Too much hassle for close to zero benefit.

Fixed that for you.

The merchant saves on Visa/Mastercard + banking fees when using bitcoin. Please stop spreading FUD.

Bit-Pay charges 2.69%, versus Square's (credit card processor) 2.75%.

Go do some research before you post stupid shit.

I believe the fees ain't the problem or the selling point. If I owned a restaurant and was approached by a bitcoiner, the last question on my mind would be fees. (following in different voice) As a restaurant owner, I'm accustomed to fees. Fees don'f faze me. What fazes me is you wasting my time by not telling me how Bitcoin is going to better my business, even if it's long term, for I understand it may not help overnight. My competition, Meze Grill, around the corner stopped accepting Bitcoin. Tell me what's that all about. Thank you for the flyer, and please return when you have something more substantial to share, otherwise you're wasting both our time.

~Bruno~

[Phinnaeus Gage]

The recent news about Visa/Mastercard security breaches is like a gift from the gods. There must be some way to combine that into a sales pitch.

There is, along with the dozen or so times it's happened prior, but the merchants still keep faith in Visa/Mastercard. They don't have faith in something that is relatively new.

Example:

Salesperson: I have this new kind of doll. It's called Barbie.
Merchant: I'm not interested, for nobody's asking for it.

Later:

Salesperson: I have this new kind of doll. It's...
Merchant: Is it Barbie?
Salesperson: Yes. And it cost only...
Merchant: We're clearing shelf space now.

~Bruno~

[imanikin]

Oh, I hadn't thought of that. Go tell all the restaurants you know about the wonderful savings they can enjoy if they accept "bitcoin" instead of regular payments...

As optimistic as i am about B, for now, i have to agree with the naysayers that B is impractical at the cash register. I am in the 3rd world boonies right now, where my favorite eatery accepts only the local paper money. It's too expensive for the locals - 16USD a plate and up, but still considers it disadvantageous to accept even CC's for several reasons...

I told the young, IT-literate guy who manages it about B, its benefits to him, and things like Bit-pay. It's not appealing to him. None of his customers besides me have even heard of Bit-pay, OKpay, etcetera, not to mention Bitcoin...

The current payment processors, such as Bit-pay, charge the same as the powers that be to move payments into fiat, AND are subject to the same fiat moving restrictions due to the American-led War on Terrorism, Drugs, Iran and Whatever-Else-They-Can-Think-Of... 

SO, EVEN where B doesn't have to compete with ANY other form of electronic payment or EVEN strong fiat paper, it's not appealing to store-front merchants...  Nothing lasts forever though... 

For now, i think B has much better potential with things like classifieds and auctions. 

[coretechs]

If we want restaurants to accept BTC today, we need to take the risk out of it for them and make it simple.  For restaurants, payments need to be converted to cash immediately.  A 3rd party BTC payment processor is the solution I think would have a chance at succeeding.

It's not a "libertarian" issue, but it is a free-market issue.  This forum is full of people who have accepted the risk of supporting bitcoin, the rest of the world is right to reject it given how insignificant it is right now.  At some point someone will be willing to take the risk, raise some capital and start targeting an area where they may have the most success.  A college town, a tech company campus, etc.  IMHO bitcoin isn't ready for that yet, and that why I'm here trying to share ideas and occasionally bump heads with the rest of you in hopes of helping it get there.  You can't expect the world to put it's confidence in utilizing bitcoin as a currency system with a market cap of $40M... that's a yacht.

[blablahblah]

The recent news about Visa/Mastercard security breaches is like a gift from the gods. There must be some way to combine that into a sales pitch.

There is, along with the dozen or so times it's happened prior, but the merchants still keep faith in Visa/Mastercard. They don't have faith in something that is relatively new.

Example:

Salesperson: I have this new kind of doll. It's called Barbie.
Merchant: I'm not interested, for nobody's asking for it.

Later:

Salesperson: I have this new kind of doll. It's...
Merchant: Is it Barbie?
Salesperson: Yes. And it cost only...
Merchant: We're clearing shelf space now.

~Bruno~

That general situation sounds so familiar! Somewhere in between:

Merchant A: Hey no fair! How come you guys are making a killing just because you started selling Barbie first?!
Merchant B: Haha! Sucker!

So if a certain market isn't ready for Bitcoin yet, save your energy and move on to a segment that is more receptive. Nothing wrong with a first adopter advantage.

Edit: maybe retail/consumer eatery margins just aren't that tight. Any Internet based/Internet-ready retailers you could lend a hand to?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

If we want restaurants to accept BTC today, we need to take the risk out of it for them and make it simple.  For restaurants, payments need to be converted to cash immediately.

Risk is not their main concern. They took risks when they first opened up. They'll gladly take risks each time they accept checks and credit cards. The other risks they have to contend with is employees and customers suing their asses over bullshit, food poisoning, etc. They'll even allocate any extra time and resources to process Bitcoin transactions. The bottom line is that owners want to hear how Bitcoin will benefit their bottom line--more customers.

~Bruno~

[N12]

The bottom line is that owners want to hear how Bitcoin will benefit their bottom line--more customers.

It won’t. End of story.

I would much rather focus on the sectors that have no other choice than Bitcoin, like Silk Road for example.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

The recent news about Visa/Mastercard security breaches is like a gift from the gods. There must be some way to combine that into a sales pitch.

There is, along with the dozen or so times it's happened prior, but the merchants still keep faith in Visa/Mastercard. They don't have faith in something that is relatively new.

Example:

Salesperson: I have this new kind of doll. It's called Barbie.
Merchant: I'm not interested, for nobody's asking for it.

Later:

Salesperson: I have this new kind of doll. It's...
Merchant: Is it Barbie?
Salesperson: Yes. And it cost only...
Merchant: We're clearing shelf space now.

~Bruno~

That general situation sounds so familiar! Somewhere in between:

Merchant A: Hey no fair! How come you guys are making a killing just because you started selling Barbie first?!
Merchant B: Haha! Sucker!

So if a certain market isn't ready for Bitcoin yet, save your energy and move on to a segment that is more receptive. Nothing wrong with a first adopter advantage.

Edit: maybe retail/consumer eatery margins just aren't that tight. Any Internet based/Internet-ready retailers you could lend a hand to?

Merchants A-L: We accept Bitcoin.
Merchants M-Z: How's that working out for you?

~Bruno~

[Phinnaeus Gage]

The bottom line is that owners want to hear how Bitcoin will benefit their bottom line--more customers.

It won’t. End of story.

I would much rather focus on the sectors that have no other choice than Bitcoin, like Silk Road for example.

And LadyBytes.

[imanikin]

 You can't expect the world to put it's confidence in utilizing bitcoin as a currency system with a market cap of $40M... that's a yacht.

Confidence is the biggest problem, imho. I think the entity that did the most damage to that in Bitcoin was the MyBitcoin.com scam. (If i remember right, that was the payment processor for Meze Grill back then also.)

Did the members of the Bitcoin community who lost the most B to MyBitcoin even put up a bounty for the whereabouts, identity and the balls of MyBitcoin.com's owner?

Just given that, not to mention financial reasons, if i were a small merchant like Meze, for now i would stick with "the devils i know" also... 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Please understand where I'm coming from, for I'm not dissing Bitcoin by any stretch of the imagination. I'm simply seeking solutions to the damn chicken and egg dilemma. It now seems to me that both aspects need to solved simultaneously for each and every sector. This is not a bad thing, but does require a little more effort for all concerns.

Using Chicago as an example, here's one approach.

A convention/expo/etc. is in town. At this large convention is a booth manned by a dozen Bitcoin Gone Wild girls. Early in the evening, the girls are split up into three groups, now at three different bar type establishments. This event has been billed two weeks in advance, hence now being packed by patrons. These patrons needed to have a Bitcoin wallet already installed on their smartphones prior to showing up for this event. If they don't have bitcoins prior to showing up, they'll be able to purchase some at the venues at a slight premium, which they'll be happen to do so to get a chance to meet and have their picture taken next to a Bitcoin Gone Wild girl.

I'm saving the rest of this post for another thread (guess which one), but wanted to show that there's still a way to make this work for a myriad of real world markets. The key word here is "simultaneously." (damn, I hate putting periods inside quotes--looks to ugly)

~Bruno~

[Littleshop]

As much as I dislike being cunicula's sockpuppet, bitcoin retail purchases are dead in the water.

Think about PayPal. They have hundreds of millions of individual accounts. They are accepted by hundreds of thousands of online retailers. Yet, do you know of any restaurant where you are able to pay with your PayPal balance using a custom PayPal checkout solution ?

Actually you can now pay at Home Depot at the self checkout register with Paypal.  I know Home Depot is not a restaurant but I do think it marks a coming trend. 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

As much as I dislike being cunicula's sockpuppet, bitcoin retail purchases are dead in the water.

Think about PayPal. They have hundreds of millions of individual accounts. They are accepted by hundreds of thousands of online retailers. Yet, do you know of any restaurant where you are able to pay with your PayPal balance using a custom PayPal checkout solution ?

Actually you can now pay at Home Depot at the self checkout register with Paypal.  I know Home Depot is not a restaurant but I do think it marks a coming trend. 

Here's the article: http://ecreditdaily.com/2012/01/ebays-paypal-instore-home-depot-retailers/

[Technomage]

Bitcoin adoption happens gradually based on its usefulness. Currently the biggest Bitcoin market is Silk Road and the reason is that Bitcoin is most useful for something like that. After this it will start spreading to other markets where it is not as useful, but still pretty neat. At the other end of the spectrum we have the brick-and-mortar stores which will most likely be the last place Bitcoin will ever have any significance. Anything is possible in the future but we're definitely not there yet. This is simply how it is. If you want to try a brick-and-mortar store, try one that has 1-2 people as staff so everyone can be educated easily. In that case it doesn't necessarily cause any extra costs to accept Bitcoin (if the owner has a smartphone). Any smart business owner will accept it then because there is nothing to lose by doing that.

I don't know what the next big market for Bitcoin will be, it could be virtual gaming markets, online gambling, porn, auction sites, crowdsourcing, crowdfunding, online/mobile donations or just simply p2p local/international money transfers. I don't know what it'll be but I can guarantee that all of the former will be big markets for Bitcoin way before brick-and-mortar stores.

This reminds me of all of those Bitcoin startups that have attempted to launch a Bitcoin retail store online, not realizing that they are basically competing with Amazon by doing that. It's a hard road. This is the same, even PayPal which is gargantuan compared to Bitcoin, hasn't had an easy time with brick-and-mortar stores. Have patience guys, Bitcoin might eventually reach even the least probable markets but not today. Now it would be more productive to focus on the markets that have better potential and only offer Bitcoin to brick-and-mortar stores if it can be done without extra investments and staff training (except the owner/owners of course).

[BubbleBoy]

Indeed, it seems to be something they are just rolling out:
http://www.suntimes.com/business/10940501-420/paypal-entering-brick-and-mortar-through-home-depot.html

They are using the credit card reader with a custom PayPal card, or the same keyboard with phone number + PayPal pin. They are also offering free 7 day credit.

Anyway, I think the principle of what I said still stands. Bitcoin's network effect is too faint to enable retailers to recoup the rollout costs. At this point, talking about fees is superfluous. Maybe when it get's PayPal sized, then it would start to make some sense.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Mike,

Your in New York City and you haven't allowed me to buy you lunch?

I am insulted 

-Charlie

[legolouman]

The recent news about Visa/Mastercard security breaches is like a gift from the gods. There must be some way to combine that into a sales pitch.

There is, along with the dozen or so times it's happened prior, but the merchants still keep faith in Visa/Mastercard. They don't have faith in something that is relatively new.

Example:

Salesperson: I have this new kind of doll. It's called Barbie.
Merchant: I'm not interested, for nobody's asking for it.

Later:

Salesperson: I have this new kind of doll. It's...
Merchant: Is it Barbie?
Salesperson: Yes. And it cost only...
Merchant: We're clearing shelf space now.

~Bruno~

+1 couldn't have visualized it better.

[blablahblah]

Merchants A-L: We accept Bitcoin.
Merchants M-Z: How's that working out for you?

~Bruno~

Maybe local dine-in restaurants just aren't a good option for Bitcoin right now? If what you're saying is true then it sounds like the industry was kicking and screaming and dragging its heels until the competition forced them to start accepting ordinary credit cards.

Maybe a better bet would be to convince a large pizza chain to accept Bitcoin as online payment option? It's a naturally better fit. There's already a delivery delay, they already have websites and online processing, and the Bitcoin scene is already full of hungry programmers and students who like to eat pizza and sit in front of computers! The sales pitch? Corner an emerging market before anyone else does, and do it cheaply and with low risk.