Suicide tourism?

[sana8410]

'Suicide tourism' to Switzerland has doubled since 2009:

(CNN) -- The law on assisted suicide in Switzerland isn't clear, according to a paper published in the journal Law, Ethics and Medicine this week. That's why, the authors say, people from other countries are traveling to the state of Zurich for the "sole purpose of committing suicide."

They're called suicide tourists.

Between 2008 and 2012, 611 "tourists" came to Switzerland for assisted suicide, according to the published analysis. They arrived from 31 countries around the world, though the majority were from Germany and the United Kingdom.

"In the UK, at least, 'going to Switzerland' has become a euphemism for (assisted suicide)," the study authors write. "Six right-to-die organizations assist in approximately 600 cases of suicide per year; some 150-200 of which are suicide tourists."

This published paper is the result of a pilot study completed for a larger project on assisted suicide in Switzerland being done by experts at the Institute of Legal Medicine in Zurich.

Of the 611 assisted suicides identified during the four-year study period, just over 58% were women. The patients' ages ranged from 23 to 97, researchers found, but the average age was 69. Close to half of the patients had a neurological disease. Others stated they had cancer, rheumatic disease or cardiovascular disease. Many had more than one condition.

In all but four cases, the assisted suicides were done using sodium pentobarbital. A fatal dose of this drug causes the patient to slip into a deep coma. Sodium pentobarbital paralyzes the patient's respiratory system, causing him or her to stop breathing. The total number of suicide tourism cases dropped from 123 in 2008 to 86 in 2009. But the number of cases doubled between 2009 and 2012, to 172.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/20/health/suicide-tourism-switzerland/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

Its a rather strange phrase "suicide tourism" for people who go to a foreign country to receive assistance in ending their life. It must be strange as well to know exactly when and how you will die. To actually have an appointment for it to happen. When you land at the airport in Switzerland you have to realize everything you see and do from now on will be for the last time.

Its doubtful these people are thinking too much about such things. They are looking for relief from agony and an end of suffering....for them and their families. Death can be very difficult and everyone needs help at the end even if that means help to die. The fact that so many have to leave their own countries for this final assistance is both sad and a shame.

In America only four states, Vermont, Oregon, Washington and Montana allow assisted Suicide. I am convinced sooner or later more will allow it. It just seems the right thing to do. All the so-called "slippery slope" concerns should be able to be alleviated as this is really an issue of common sense. No one wants to die in agony and without dignity or watch someone they love go through such an end. Folks have no control over their birth and sometimes not much control over their lives so at least we should have control over how we wish to die. Don't you think?

[zolace]

I can see tremendous commercial potential for the first country that makes the theme park. People are going to pay money to pick the way they die. Some will see it and some won't.

[superresistant]

This is what happen when you make law based on "moral" instead of rational arguments.

Killing yourself or ask someone to help you is illegal because some religious pedophiles said it is wrong.

Fuck religion, fuck moral. Use your brain people, it's made for it.

[umair127]

My opinion (which can't be disputed, disproven or otherwise challenged bwahahaha) is the commercialized Swiss suicide spas, where suicide is on offer not only to the terminally ill or those with agonizing conditions, are a life-negating slippery slope. I'd append "What do you think?" but that would be disingenuous because I don't want to consider member thoughts, refine or elaborate on mine or bother with addressing arguments to contrary.  "Ditto" is an acceptable reply of course. ;-)

[noviapriani]

Reminds me of Soylent Green and Edward J. Robinson's famous line..."I'm going home." Really loved the musical overture they played after he drank the poison and all the beautiful clips of how abundant life used to be, not a bad way to go if one has already made up their mind.

And suicide is a very personal decision, it retains at least a measure of dignity, it should be legalized but with certain restrictions, certain age limits and of course, at a reasonable cost. All Catholics must sign a waiver.

[zolace]

My opinion (which can't be disputed, disproven or otherwise challenged bwahahaha) is the commercialized Swiss suicide spas, where suicide is on offer not only to the terminally ill or those with agonizing conditions, are a life-negating slippery slope. I'd append "What do you think?" but that would be disingenuous because I don't want to consider member thoughts, refine or elaborate on mine or bother with addressing arguments to contrary.  "Ditto" is an acceptable reply of course. ;-)

Personally, I don't understand why this isn't allowed in all states. With close regulation to prevent exploitation and to prevent that "slippery slope" it seems only proper to allow someone to willfully expire with dignity. 

[Hash Master]

"Suicide tourism" is a very wrong name of the whole concept.
If you haven't seen with your eyes what a cancer disease can do, than maybe that's the right term. These people are in immense physical pain, so choosing to die with dignity is the best someone can let them do, since they have already lost control over their bodies and obviously - the battle with cancer.

[umair127]

"Suicide tourism" is a very wrong name of the whole concept.
If you haven't seen with your eyes what a cancer disease can do, than maybe that's the right term. These people are in immense physical pain, so choosing to die with dignity is the best someone can let them do, since they have already lost control over their bodies and obviously - the battle with cancer.

There is a popular novel on this topic called "Me Before You" which as fiction goes, does a fairly good job at portraying both sides of this issue through one man's personal quest to off himself in Switzerland. 


As for the argument for "assisted suicide", calling it that is the first step down the slippery slope with all respect to the two gents who just said it.  The slippery slope always starts with appealing euphemisms...after all, who doesn't want women to have choice?  Who wouldn't want folks to be treated equally?   Who doesn't want to die with dignity? Try calling it what is really is..."state sanctioned murder of an innocent helpless sick person"....and see how much traction that will get advocates.

[sana8410]

"Suicide tourism" is a very wrong name of the whole concept.
If you haven't seen with your eyes what a cancer disease can do, than maybe that's the right term. These people are in immense physical pain, so choosing to die with dignity is the best someone can let them do, since they have already lost control over their bodies and obviously - the battle with cancer.

If I was dying of a painful disease, like cancer, I would ask for whatever got rid of the pain and take in as much as I needed, whether it killed me or not.  I don't want to be in pain at the end of my life.  I want to die in bliss.

[umair127]

Most major religions and large denoms of our majority Christian population support their respective version of the sanctity of life, the exceptions are those which are heavily based or influenced by humanist tenets. It doesn't always follow that what the individual or majority of religions believe is immoral should be reflected in law....I don't ascribe to that view because there are lots of things which the government has no compelling interest to prevent heathens from doing if they are only harming themselves or other consenting adults.  If someone wants to kill themselves, I wouldn't stand on "moral principle" to make that illegal per se because once they are dead, what in the world can you do to them that would matter?    But the problem with suicide is that if it is not made illegal, then you have no authority to try to stop someone in process and get them help.  Furthermore, assisted suicide (another euphemism) is not just the person offing themselves, it is the sanctioning of a government authorized doctor to kill you with your permission.   So setting aside the morality,  how do we logically reconcile that we need to keep suicide illegal so we can intervene to stop someone who wants to do it themselves with making suicide legal as long as it is someone else killing you after you beg for permission from Big Brother?  That is about the screwiest justification of a "personal right" there is, not to mention compassion.

[zolace]

Most major religions and large denoms of our majority Christian population support their respective version of the sanctity of life, the exceptions are those which are heavily based or influenced by humanist tenets. It doesn't always follow that what the individual or majority of religions believe is immoral should be reflected in law....I don't ascribe to that view because there are lots of things which the government has no compelling interest to prevent heathens from doing if they are only harming themselves or other consenting adults.  If someone wants to kill themselves, I wouldn't stand on "moral principle" to make that illegal per se because once they are dead, what in the world can you do to them that would matter?    But the problem with suicide is that if it is not made illegal, then you have no authority to try to stop someone in process and get them help.  Furthermore, assisted suicide (another euphemism) is not just the person offing themselves, it is the sanctioning of a government authorized doctor to kill you with your permission.   So setting aside the morality,  how do we logically reconcile that we need to keep suicide illegal so we can intervene to stop someone who wants to do it themselves with making suicide legal as long as it is someone else killing you after you beg for permission from Big Brother?  That is about the screwiest justification of a "personal right" there is, not to mention compassion.

Very well stated. I'd only add that I lived with my mom while she died of lung cancer a few years ago. Nothing very gracious
about it, but it did give us six months to discover two people neither of us knew existed before that.

[umair127]

"Suicide tourism" is a very wrong name of the whole concept.
If you haven't seen with your eyes what a cancer disease can do, than maybe that's the right term. These people are in immense physical pain, so choosing to die with dignity is the best someone can let them do, since they have already lost control over their bodies and obviously - the battle with cancer.

If I was dying of a painful disease, like cancer, I would ask for whatever got rid of the pain and take in as much as I needed, whether it killed me or not.  I don't want to be in pain at the end of my life.  I want to die in bliss.

Second, once you start embracing the euphemistic view and make it easier, more people are going to do it  (see the OP...doubled since 2009).   In fact, it will eventually become the default option when coupled with your options being limited by government healthcare rationing or exorbitant costs of private care.  But just like abortion, the decision to snuff a life is final, and it will leave people behind with emotional damage having done something which goes against nature (as in killing your baby or loved one is NOT natural).   It would be IMPOSSIBLE to prevent abuse as it is subjective, and more broad the criteria which WILL happen once this "right" is codified, the more abuse there will be.  It will infect the culture with less appreciation for life, in particular lives that contain struggles for some unknown period of time.  We are already a culture who has a VERY simplistic and misguided view of suffering that equates to "all suffering = bad" with each pampered protected generation with less developed character and more dependent and less self reliant than the previous.

[noviapriani]

"Suicide tourism" is a very wrong name of the whole concept.
If you haven't seen with your eyes what a cancer disease can do, than maybe that's the right term. These people are in immense physical pain, so choosing to die with dignity is the best someone can let them do, since they have already lost control over their bodies and obviously - the battle with cancer.

If I was dying of a painful disease, like cancer, I would ask for whatever got rid of the pain and take in as much as I needed, whether it killed me or not.  I don't want to be in pain at the end of my life.  I want to die in bliss.

.....for me it wouldn't be so much the pain that I wanted to escape, but I would absolutely hate to become a burden on my family. The minute I could not take care of myself...my life would not be worth living. Life is not wasting away in a bed...not mine anyway.

[Gervais]

I don't really understand why people need to travel to a foreign country to commit suicide. It seems like such a stress and added cost, and why can't they just take a drug overdose at home of painkillers or whatever. That's all these clincs would probably give them anyway (or some other fatal amount of another drug).

[umair127]

For me personally, I do not judge a person like Robin Williams for what he did.  He made his decision, I have no desire or need to add insult to injury to a dead man by emphasizing  illegality after the fact.  I feel the same in regard to someone who refused to eat or treat their disease or an infection or personally offed themselves to hasten their demise.  In that sense, I support their "right" and they can work it out with their God or karma or whatever higher power there may be.  I will extend compassion to these folks who in their minds feel they cannot make a different choice.   But in no way will I ever embrace state sanctioned murder of the sick.  I watched a dear friend die of cancer slowly and with tremendous suffering, and he did with such courage, unfailing good humor and selflessness, and gratitude for every minute and every person in his life, it was so powerful and humbling and inspirational, I dare anyone to argue that is not the epitome of what dying with dignity really looks like.  Dying, and dying is a messy way, is part of life and it has a value even if it is painful and hard which I think in the long run and larger picture will not benefit the larger community to sanitize.

[umair127]

I realize not everyone has what it takes to do what my friend did, and I can't honestly say I do...but I WANT to be like him, so do hundreds of folks who watched him, and yes, IMO, that is the culture I want to live in.  One that values REAL courage, and REAL compassion, and REAL life, all of which I think are turned upside down in state sanctioned murder.

[sana8410]

I realize not everyone has what it takes to do what my friend did, and I can't honestly say I do...but I WANT to be like him, so do hundreds of folks who watched him, and yes, IMO, that is the culture I want to live in.  One that values REAL courage, and REAL compassion, and REAL life, all of which I think are turned upside down in state sanctioned murder.

That's going in a personal archive of "perfectly stated opinions", passages for which I am grateful to author for articulating clearly and beautifully.  I also watched my brother die of terminal cancer, taking from his courageous example the same humbling and life affirming message you did. 

While my initial reply was glib, concern over the marketing of suicide, (which will occur, if this 'procedure' is normalized) is 100% genuine, for the reasons you've outlined so thoughtfully.  

[sana8410]

For me personally, I do not judge a person like Robin Williams for what he did.  He made his decision, I have no desire or need to add insult to injury to a dead man by emphasizing  illegality after the fact.  I feel the same in regard to someone who refused to eat or treat their disease or an infection or personally offed themselves to hasten their demise.  In that sense, I support their "right" and they can work it out with their God or karma or whatever higher power there may be.  I will extend compassion to these folks who in their minds feel they cannot make a different choice.   But in no way will I ever embrace state sanctioned murder of the sick.  I watched a dear friend die of cancer slowly and with tremendous suffering, and he did with such courage, unfailing good humor and selflessness, and gratitude for every minute and every person in his life, it was so powerful and humbling and inspirational, I dare anyone to argue that is not the epitome of what dying with dignity really looks like.  Dying, and dying is a messy way, is part of life and it has a value even if it is painful and hard which I think in the long run and larger picture will not benefit the larger community to sanitize.

There's bedridden and bedridden. Being hooked up to a bunch of tubes, on constant painkillers and other medicine, that's one thing. But having, say, a leg chopped off for diabetes, that's another. It's our responsibility to construct our lives as best we can given the cards we are dealt. When I was young, I worked in retirement facilities, not real convalescent hospitals, though they did have SNFs, but rather retirement homes, some very well heeled ones. I saw folks at both their best and worst in older age, even some who were bedridden but still kept an active mind and relative control over the rest of their body others who were hale in both body and mind but made their own elder years miserable of their own choice.

Ultimately, where I come down on assisted suicide is here:


 I feel the same in regard to someone who refused to eat or treat their disease or an infection or personally offed themselves to hasten their demise. In that sense, I support their "right" and they can work it out with their God or karma or whatever higher power there may be.

[sana8410]

"Suicide tourism" is a very wrong name of the whole concept.
If you haven't seen with your eyes what a cancer disease can do, than maybe that's the right term. These people are in immense physical pain, so choosing to die with dignity is the best someone can let them do, since they have already lost control over their bodies and obviously - the battle with cancer.

If I was dying of a painful disease, like cancer, I would ask for whatever got rid of the pain and take in as much as I needed, whether it killed me or not.  I don't want to be in pain at the end of my life.  I want to die in bliss.

Second, once you start embracing the euphemistic view and make it easier, more people are going to do it  (see the OP...doubled since 2009).   In fact, it will eventually become the default option when coupled with your options being limited by government healthcare rationing or exorbitant costs of private care.  But just like abortion, the decision to snuff a life is final, and it will leave people behind with emotional damage having done something which goes against nature (as in killing your baby or loved one is NOT natural).   It would be IMPOSSIBLE to prevent abuse as it is subjective, and more broad the criteria which WILL happen once this "right" is codified, the more abuse there will be.  It will infect the culture with less appreciation for life, in particular lives that contain struggles for some unknown period of time.  We are already a culture who has a VERY simplistic and misguided view of suffering that equates to "all suffering = bad" with each pampered protected generation with less developed character and more dependent and less self reliant than the previous.

I agree. I'll make an exception for the rare guy who is hale one day and in extreme pain and so sick he can't do anything, that's for fun's sake since he brought it up before, but my problem with assisted suicide in general is that I just think if people want to kill themselves, they know how to do it

[sana8410]

For people like me, we can have great suicides of the past, "Open your veins like Petronius Arbiter" or "stick your head in the oven like Sylvia Plath" or "Shoot yourself like Ernest Hemingway", complete with the actual setting in which it took place so you get the real sense of it all. Or, at least, your survivors do! I'd love to go out like Petronius!