Bitcoin - Losing faith...heres why...

[kashivre]

I cannot see the whole world using bitcoin when its going to create such wealth disparity.

There are roughly 13 million coins in circulation, with the maximum amount being 21 million. This means over 50% of all coins in being, are in control of a small minority consisting of maybe 0.01% of the worlds population.

Yes, there is a super-elite rich at the moment, but not at the scale we are talking about if bitcoin were to be adopted.

Is it not more sensible to think that yes, a cryptocurrency will exist, but not bitcoin? A coin where you are automatically assigned a certain amount based on your wealth at the moment, in relation to others?

I find it absurd that someone, i.e the Winklevosses could own 1% of the worlds monetary power. Noone, absolutely noone in their right mind, will allow someone to hold this amount insane amount of resources.

I understand, the concept and even bitcoin itself is revolutionary, it has woken us up to what could be, but the origination and adoption of bitcoin was messy and only open to people who (rightly so) had knowledge and guts. But just because someone has guys it doesn't mean they are deserving of something.

99.99% of the worlds population controlling 50% of the worlds monetary value and therefore resources, when early adoptors, i.e the 0.01% own the other 50%. 1 person in the 'bitcoin elite' would have the same monetary power as 10,000 people. That's disgusting and human morality itself will not allow for this to happen.

Don't get me wrong cryptocurrency is the future, just not one causing a dictatorship to be born.

And for the short term I see no reason to invest either....


Swiping cards is just about the simplest thing you can do, most transactions under $50 don't require a signature, and security codes and card expiry are incredibly small concerns.

Bitcoin's headaches are immense, slow txn processing, irreversible for the consumer, funds are lost if wallet is compromises...now follow me for a sec...

Merchants can't replace credit with bitcoin. Simply can't. Credit is money you don't have and bitcoin is money you do have. A good credit card offers rewards, 100% fraud protection, ubiquitous acceptance, FICO score benefits, and an entity between you and your money. Tons of consumer value.

Now debit - debit fees were sliced by the Durbin amendment, so suddenly they aren't all that much more than the 1% exchange price of bitcoin.

While debit and bitcoin are comparable in that they are money you have, there is still no compelling reason for your average consumer to pay a fee to obtain bitcoin just to make an everyday purchase.

Merchants can want to eliminate transaction fees all they want but until there is clear value for the most important point in the value chain, the consumer, mass adoption will not occur. Even worse, to fix bitcoin's shortcomings, you need to regulate it, guarantee it, set up escrow's, exchange btc for USD...all the things that will make it just like the mainstream banks bitcoin is seeking to circumvent.

Even if these are fixed, its too late, people will realise the wealth disparity caused.

A new world cryptocurrency will be replace it, where the wealth disparity stays the same, where it is today... but with all the benefits that crypto has to offer so the world doesnt collapse?

Comments?

[TheAccountant]

I think you're making a few assumptions that won't happen. 

First, at some point, those holding Bitcoin will spend them (or would you lock up all of your wealth in one asset class?).  So you won't end up with 1% holding over 50% of the Bitcoins.

Second, the vast majority of users will hold very little Bitcoin (just like you don't put all of your available cash in your checking account).  The use will be more of a flow in, flow out.  For example, I have half a bitcoin in my spending wallet.  I go to the store, buy something.  The store owner takes the bitcoin for the transaction and immediately trades it in for dollars, pounds, euros, etc.

Third, those perks and fraud protection cost money.  You're paying more for goods and services because of it.  Don't fool yourself into thinking the credit card companies and merchants are eating these costs.

The only reason credit cards will continue to exist is that many people rely on them to deal with short-term cash-flow shortfalls.  Although I believe there will be Bitcoin backed cards available soon.

[kashivre]

Hmm, well people will not be spending their bitcoins recklessly. If they do spend it so for e.g. on a house or in another company, they still hold the power, with the underlying value of that power being bitcoin. The only real spending that would occur would be on depreciating assets, which would only account for a small amount of the purchases made. The rest would be hoarded in appreciating assets, so they never lose control of the power they first received with the massive wealth disparity that may come from bitcoin.

[DavidHume]

Third, those perks and fraud protection cost money.  You're paying more for goods and services because of it.  Don't fool yourself into thinking the credit card companies and merchants are eating these costs.

I don't know about credit card company. But the merchants are eating the cost of fraud.

[aigeezer]

Hmm, well people will not be spending their bitcoins recklessly.

People spend their BTC in arbitrary ways now. Some of them, such as gambling, are arguably reckless ways.

http://cryptobettingindex.com/top-usd-wagered/

Are you predicting that this behaviour will change? If so, why, when and how will it change? Can you offer any evidence to support your predictions?


 

[Ayers]

There are roughly 13 million coins in circulation, with the maximum amount being 21 million. This means over 50% of all coins in being, are in control of a small minority consisting of maybe 0.01% of the worlds population.

the bitcoin is divisible, this shouldn't be a problem, you don't need to own a whole bitcoin in future, when the price will skyrocket

[TheAccountant]

Hmm, well people will not be spending their bitcoins recklessly. If they do spend it so for e.g. on a house or in another company, they still hold the power, with the underlying value of that power being bitcoin. The only real spending that would occur would be on depreciating assets, which would only account for a small amount of the purchases made. The rest would be hoarded in appreciating assets, so they never lose control of the power they first received with the massive wealth disparity that may come from bitcoin.

I guess if wealth is evil, you better give me your money and bitcoin so you'll be safe.

[galbros]

I agree that right now things are a lot less exciting than they were in Nov & Dec. 2013 and I enjoyed reading your thoughtful post.

However, I still think there is a lot of room for bitcoin adoption.  Bitcoin is like electronic cash, yes it's not reversible but it has very low costs - 10K statosi - versus 1.9%+ for credit and debit cards.

While I don't like the initial wealth distribution either, you don't need a lot of bitcoins to use it.  I think that is why more merchants adopting bitcoin has not moved the price, they are just using coinbase and so the need for additional bitcoins is nominal.

[yayayo]

My faith in bitcoin only increases. One reason is accelerating adoption. The other reason is reading the same arguments against bitcoin's success again and again.

Bitcoin was not built to provide socialist welfare or to babysit the masses. Bitcoin breathes freedom. And that's why it works and likely will succeed.

ya.ya.yo!

[farfiman]

There are roughly 13 million coins in circulation, with the maximum amount being 21 million. This means over 50% of all coins in being, are in control of a small minority consisting of maybe 0.01% of the worlds population.

the bitcoin is divisible, this shouldn't be a problem, you don't need to own a whole bitcoin in future, when the price will skyrocket

His point is money=power and in this case too much power in the hands of too few people
(not that it is any different now)

[iluvpie60]

I cannot see the whole world using bitcoin when its going to create such wealth disparity.

There are roughly 13 million coins in circulation, with the maximum amount being 21 million. This means over 50% of all coins in being, are in control of a small minority consisting of maybe 0.01% of the worlds population.

Yes, there is a super-elite rich at the moment, but not at the scale we are talking about if bitcoin were to be adopted.

Is it not more sensible to think that yes, a cryptocurrency will exist, but not bitcoin? A coin where you are automatically assigned a certain amount based on your wealth at the moment, in relation to others?

I find it absurd that someone, i.e the Winklevosses could own 1% of the worlds monetary power. Noone, absolutely noone in their right mind, will allow someone to hold this amount insane amount of resources.

I understand, the concept and even bitcoin itself is revolutionary, it has woken us up to what could be, but the origination and adoption of bitcoin was messy and only open to people who (rightly so) had knowledge and guts. But just because someone has guys it doesn't mean they are deserving of something.

99.99% of the worlds population controlling 50% of the worlds monetary value and therefore resources, when early adoptors, i.e the 0.01% own the other 50%. 1 person in the 'bitcoin elite' would have the same monetary power as 10,000 people. That's disgusting and human morality itself will not allow for this to happen.

Don't get me wrong cryptocurrency is the future, just not one causing a dictatorship to be born.

And for the short term I see no reason to invest either....


Swiping cards is just about the simplest thing you can do, most transactions under $50 don't require a signature, and security codes and card expiry are incredibly small concerns.

Bitcoin's headaches are immense, slow txn processing, irreversible for the consumer, funds are lost if wallet is compromises...now follow me for a sec...

Merchants can't replace credit with bitcoin. Simply can't. Credit is money you don't have and bitcoin is money you do have. A good credit card offers rewards, 100% fraud protection, ubiquitous acceptance, FICO score benefits, and an entity between you and your money. Tons of consumer value.

Now debit - debit fees were sliced by the Durbin amendment, so suddenly they aren't all that much more than the 1% exchange price of bitcoin.

While debit and bitcoin are comparable in that they are money you have, there is still no compelling reason for your average consumer to pay a fee to obtain bitcoin just to make an everyday purchase.

Merchants can want to eliminate transaction fees all they want but until there is clear value for the most important point in the value chain, the consumer, mass adoption will not occur. Even worse, to fix bitcoin's shortcomings, you need to regulate it, guarantee it, set up escrow's, exchange btc for USD...all the things that will make it just like the mainstream banks bitcoin is seeking to circumvent.

Even if these are fixed, its too late, people will realise the wealth disparity caused.

A new world cryptocurrency will be replace it, where the wealth disparity stays the same, where it is today... but with all the benefits that crypto has to offer so the world doesnt collapse?

Comments?

ahhh. another newbie posting in bitcoin discussion when you should be reading about what bitcoin is. please just go back the beginngers section and read more before you come up with your brilliant plant about bitcoin. there are people who have been here from the beginning and know way more than you. bitcoin doesnt need shortcomings fixed, it CANNOT BE EVERYTHING AT THE SAME TIME. it is bitcoin and it will stay what it is.

[FloodZone]

if you are losing your faith - stay away from our community. We need only those who are full of enegry and have a strongest will

[thehappybtc]

I'm a bit depressed by this long period of stagnation but I know that sooner or later the price will recover and hit new highs.

[kashivre]

Lol? Do not tell me to leave this community for questioning bitcoin. Questioning how the world works is how the world has progressed so rapidly.

You are getting your ego involved. Lets just keep this down to pure intellect and opinion instead of insults, as it will not get us anywhere.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one with these questions. Just because I'm a newbie it doesn't make my remarks invalid. Instead of throwing insults, why do you not instead throw a constructive answer/opinion? You need to practice a bit more compassion, as they say, all you need is love! Now come here and let me give you a big fat kiss on the lips iluvpie60!

[bigasic]

Most people that are here joined after the first bitcoin boon. Those of us that have been here since the beginning of GPU mining have more patience. First BTC was trading for 70 cents of something, it slowly went up, then SR was announced, then it jumped to 4 bucks overnight, then within a few weeks it hit in the 30s then it slowly went down to 2 dollars in the winter, then it stayed around the 4 dollar range for months, then it slowly went up to 8 then 6 to 9 months later asics were starting to be released to btc got its engines going.. then cyprus hit and we went to 266 or so.. then we pull back to the low hundreds for months. then boom, to the moon probably because of the chinese..

What Im saying is that bitcoin was stagnate or worse for a couple years, when bitcoin doesn't do amazing things for a few months everyone freaks out...

Wait til the infrastructure gets solidified and the EFT's start.. Who cares that the twins own 1 percent of coin, they plan on selling it to investors. Im trying to spread the word on bitcoin, trying to get businesses to take it.. Got my doctor to take it and 2 7-11's.. If everyone did that, where do you think bitcoin would be?

This is not a get rich scheme.. If all goes well, we should see new all time highs within a couple years...

[Meuh6879]

OP hold BTC from the vacancy ... but, now, it don't have FIAT money for the september and not make profit in BTC.
OP leave
Well, OP ... bye !

[zymafluo]

Bitcoin isn't a get-rich-quick scheme, if you have lost your faith, the best thing you can do is howl your coins and forget about them for some years.

[CozyLife]

Bitcoin is the One World Currency, so it makes perfect sense that Satoshi/Illuminati would create it in such a way that it would eliminate the middle-class. They only want the poor (slaves) and the rich classes. If enough people with good hearts amass Bitcoin, it could be the Achilles heal in their plans. The people with large sums of cash could do something to help the poor, while "they" try to ruin people's lives. There will eventually only be 500,000 people in this world once they put the Georgia Stonehenge stuff into action. Just work to amass as much Bitcoin as you can and you'll also be in a place to help fix this mess.

[itsAj]

There are roughly 13 million coins in circulation, with the maximum amount being 21 million. This means over 50% of all coins in being, are in control of a small minority consisting of maybe 0.01% of the worlds population.

the bitcoin is divisible, this shouldn't be a problem, you don't need to own a whole bitcoin in future, when the price will skyrocket

His point is money=power and in this case too much power in the hands of too few people
(not that it is any different now)

Well he may be right to say that money does equal power. However money does not equal control over bitcoin. What he is saying is an issue with overall society. The fact that Bitcoin is PoW and not PoS (piece of stake aka piece of shit) means that regardless of how many BTC one person has they will not be able to affect others who have bitcoin (except the price if/when they decide to sell).  

[desired_username]

Bitcoin isn't a get-rich-quick scheme, if you have lost your faith, the best thing you can do is howl your coins and forget about them for some years.

Or sell them to me. I would happily take them.