I'm dissapointed about using bitcoin as a currency, it really should improve

[bitcoin_purist]

I've paid several times in bars and restaurants with bitcoin (I go there especially because of bitcoin) and every time I was ripped of.
Every time I paid a premium of 5 to 10% above FIAT price when I paid in bitcoin.

If bitcoin wants to succeed as a payment in bars and restaurants this really has to change.

The reason I did it was to show the experience to friends whom 'I sucked into the bitcoin sect'.

Now I showed it to them all and I'm not going to use bitcoin for these purpose anymore untill the price is equal or cheaper.


Do other people have the same experience?

[Scott J]

I've not tried it myself, but I would be interested to hear how they work out the exchange rate.

What calculation did you use to convert the BTC you paid into a fiat value?

[BitAddict]

Tell them to use BitPay if they don't want to deal with price volatility. Charging extra 5-10% is simply stupid, no way anyone should spend bitcoins there unless necessary.

[marcotheminer]

The reason for the premium cost atm is due to its volatility and uselessness (relatively) today. In a few years this might change, so continue to spend!

[bitcoin_purist]

I've not tried it myself, but I would be interested to hear how they work out the exchange rate.

What calculation did you use to convert the BTC you paid into a fiat value?

I paid 0.200636 BTC for 76 euro's (a lot of beer, still having a hang over ;-)
The merchant made that price, not me.

I already thought it was rather expensive and even considered to pay FIAT but because I was with a friend (who was going to experience this for the first time) I decided to pay with bitcoin anyway.

This morning I looked at the exchange rate from btc-e and it was about 390 euros so it should have been 390/76 = 0.19487179487 BTC
So, premium was about 0.00576520513 BTC =  2.87345062476%

Ok, I lied, it was not 5-10% this time, but anyway, I was ripped of. I should not paid with bitcoin because I was loosing.
If bitcoin wants to win, this should have been the other way arround.

[franky1]

I've paid several times in bars and restaurants with bitcoin (I go there especially because of bitcoin) and every time I was ripped of.
Every time I paid a premium of 5 to 10% above FIAT price when I paid in bitcoin.

If bitcoin wants to succeed as a payment in bars and restaurants this really has to change.

The reason I did it was to show the experience to friends whom I sucked into the bitcoin sect.

Now I showed it to them all and I'm not going to use bitcoin for these purpose anymore untill the price is equal or cheaper.


Do other people have the same experience?

i guess you searched the different exchanges and tried to find the exchange that offered the cheapest bitcoin price and then went on a rant that the price did not meet the cheapest price you could find.

thats almost like ranting that you done a gold trade and found out that you paid 10% above the whole sale price (not spot price). bitcoin is not suppose to be used for someone to have fiat, convert to bitcoin and then instantly spend. bitcoin is for those who bought bitcoin, saved it for a while and then spent it when in profit.

you will never be able to buy bitcoin and spend it in the same day and the totals balance out. so save your bitcoin and when the current $490 becomes over $539 then you will see the benefit, even with a 5-10% 'spot'

[iluvpie60]

I've paid several times in bars and restaurants with bitcoin (I go there especially because of bitcoin) and every time I was ripped of.
Every time I paid a premium of 5 to 10% above FIAT price when I paid in bitcoin.

If bitcoin wants to succeed as a payment in bars and restaurants this really has to change.

The reason I did it was to show the experience to friends whom I sucked into the bitcoin sect.

Now I showed it to them all and I'm not going to use bitcoin for these purpose anymore untill the price is equal or cheaper.


Do other people have the same experience?

it has nothing to do with change. and honestly you probably are missusing bitcoin if you are spending it on smaller transactions. currently the standard fee of .0001  is 5 cents so using it to buy smaller purchases doesn't really make much sense. bitcoin is really designed to be more used on larger transactions and moving money back and forth for almost no fee.

we are going to see other coins fulfill the role of micro transactions for sure, hence why there are other coins.

[bitcoin_purist]

I've paid several times in bars and restaurants with bitcoin (I go there especially because of bitcoin) and every time I was ripped of.
Every time I paid a premium of 5 to 10% above FIAT price when I paid in bitcoin.

If bitcoin wants to succeed as a payment in bars and restaurants this really has to change.

The reason I did it was to show the experience to friends whom I sucked into the bitcoin sect.

Now I showed it to them all and I'm not going to use bitcoin for these purpose anymore untill the price is equal or cheaper.


Do other people have the same experience?

i guess you searched the different exchanges and tried to find the exchange that offered the cheapest bitcoin price and then went on a rant that the price did not meet the cheapest price you could find.

No I did not, I just took the biggest BTC/EUR exchange.

thats almost like ranting that you done a gold trade and found out that you paid 10% above the whole sale price (not spot price). bitcoin is not suppose to be used for someone to have fiat, convert to bitcoin and then instantly spend. bitcoin is for those who bought bitcoin, saved it for a while and then spent it when in profit.

That's just bullshit. So you assume bitcoin will grow into infinity so that every adapter is able to make "profit"
Bitcoin is not going to work this way. The value has to flatten out in the end. If that happens there is no real profit to make.
So at that moment you will probably have spent all your bitcoins because there is no "profit" to make anymore.
I'm very sorry, don't take it personal, but I can't find the words to describe what nonsense you just said (not native english, we can continue in Dutch if you prefer, I'm willing to debate this point into detail)

you will never be able to buy bitcoin and spend it in the same day and the totals balance out

So there will be *no* incentive to spend them then isn't it?
How would bitcoin ever succeed when they are not going to be spent?

. so save your bitcoin and when the current $490 becomes over $539 then you will see the benefit, even with a 5-10% 'spot'

Of course I save them, because they are worth a lot. And even more in the future.
But not for beers and food because you will get ripped of.

[bitcoin_purist]

I've paid several times in bars and restaurants with bitcoin (I go there especially because of bitcoin) and every time I was ripped of.
Every time I paid a premium of 5 to 10% above FIAT price when I paid in bitcoin.

If bitcoin wants to succeed as a payment in bars and restaurants this really has to change.

The reason I did it was to show the experience to friends whom I sucked into the bitcoin sect.

Now I showed it to them all and I'm not going to use bitcoin for these purpose anymore untill the price is equal or cheaper.


Do other people have the same experience?

it has nothing to do with change. and honestly you probably are missusing bitcoin if you are spending it on smaller transactions.

Is 0,2 a small transaction? I disagree.

[fdiini]

I've paid several times in bars and restaurants with bitcoin (I go there especially because of bitcoin) and every time I was ripped of.
Every time I paid a premium of 5 to 10% above FIAT price when I paid in bitcoin.

If bitcoin wants to succeed as a payment in bars and restaurants this really has to change.

The reason I did it was to show the experience to friends whom I sucked into the bitcoin sect.

Now I showed it to them all and I'm not going to use bitcoin for these purpose anymore untill the price is equal or cheaper.


Do other people have the same experience?

If you think this is bad, imagine doing it in non-USD country where the foreign conversion fee and wire fee are high.

This is also the main reason I think bitcoin will not get major acceptance on local trade outside US.

[bitcoin_purist]

I've paid several times in bars and restaurants with bitcoin (I go there especially because of bitcoin) and every time I was ripped of.
Every time I paid a premium of 5 to 10% above FIAT price when I paid in bitcoin.

If bitcoin wants to succeed as a payment in bars and restaurants this really has to change.

The reason I did it was to show the experience to friends whom I sucked into the bitcoin sect.

Now I showed it to them all and I'm not going to use bitcoin for these purpose anymore untill the price is equal or cheaper.


Do other people have the same experience?

If you think this is bad, imagine doing it in non-USD country where the foreign conversion fee and wire are high.

It was in the Netherlands.

[Scott J]

Your mistake was using BTCe as they are cheaper than other exchanges. Bitstamp would have been more accurate.

Also, you checked the price the following morning... the price can move significantly in only 8 hours.

Edit: I have just looked and there is a ~1.1% difference between Bitstamp and BTCe right now.

[franky1]

That's just bullshit. So you assume bitcoin will grow into infinity so that every adapter is able to make "profit"

ok lets compare bitcoin to gold
bitcoin 13mill coins circulation (21mill total in future)
gold 175k tonnes circulation (not much more in future)

on comparison, based on total amount available right now. your 0.2btc is equivalent to about 92 ounces of gold (if there were all 21mill coins in circulation your 0.2btc would be 56 ounces)

so you have spend basically 56-92 ounces of the worlds gold now, rather than waiting for the public to take it on and to receive true value for your hoard, and what did you get for your spend?... very little.

[bitcoin_purist]

Your mistake was using BTCe as they are cheaper than other exchanges. Bitstamp would have been more accurate.

bitstamp doesn't convert to EURO

Also, you checked the price the following morning... the price can move significantly in only 8 hours.

I checked following morning to see what the price was on the moment of payment (there was a huge spike a few hours earlier, lucky I did not pay at that moment! )
I placed the crosshair on the moment of payment. I see that even less than 390

[frankenmint]

That's just bullshit. So you assume bitcoin will grow into infinity so that every adapter is able to make "profit"

ok lets compare bitcoin to gold
bitcoin 13mill coins circulation (21mill total in future)
gold 175k tonnes circulation (not much more in future)

on comparison, based on total amount available right now. your 0.2btc is equivalent to about 92 ounces of gold (if there were all 21mill coins in circulation your 0.2btc would be 56 ounces)

so you have spend basically 56-92 ounces of the worlds gold now, rather than waiting for the public to take it on and to receive true value for your hoard, and what did you get for your spend?... very little.

how is it proven that gold utility greater than or equal to BTC and vice versa for that matter?  Its a tall order to presume that they will match in both perceived as well as actual value.

I've paid several times in bars and restaurants with bitcoin (I go there especially because of bitcoin) and every time I was ripped of.
Every time I paid a premium of 5 to 10% above FIAT price when I paid in bitcoin.

If bitcoin wants to succeed as a payment in bars and restaurants this really has to change.

The reason I did it was to show the experience to friends whom I sucked into the bitcoin sect.

Now I showed it to them all and I'm not going to use bitcoin for these purpose anymore untill the price is equal or cheaper.


Do other people have the same experience?

No sir I haven't when in your circumstance.  HOWEVER, I've had embarrassing moments with walmart and target at the checkout line when trying to use the electronic gift-cards I purchased using gyft.  I wanted to know how many other business establishments you have purchased from using btc?  I often hear and see of others referencing discounts when people 'pay in btc'  I've only paid spot price for gift cards and redeemed them for their value.  Conversely I offered my sending rate as I used a paper QR code on the side of the food cart when I paid for some whiffies here in Portland.

I have also had to pay a premium on person to person transactions so I will do my best to negotiate it downward whenever possible. 

[bitcoin_purist]

That's just bullshit. So you assume bitcoin will grow into infinity so that every adapter is able to make "profit"

ok lets compare bitcoin to gold
bitcoin 21mill coins
gold 175k tonnes

on comparison, based on total amount available right now. your 0.2btc is equivalent to about 92 ounces of gold (if there were all 21mill coins in circulation your 0.2btc would be 56 ounces)

so you have spend basically 56-92 ounces of the worlds gold now, rather than waiting for the public to take on bitcoin and to receive true value for your hoard,and what did you get for your spend?... very little.

That's what I'm trying to say.
It is just not going to work as a payment method for beers right now.
It's much wiser to hoard the coins and spend them after 1o years or so.

Those merchants will not see many people pay with bitcoin if everybody is hoarding.

[franky1]

0.2btc for 76Euro= 380 for 1btc... i fail to see your problem with the price difference.

after all the price was moving from 375-395 in the space of a day, and different exchanges use different prices then the one that you prefered. so it was your choice and selfishness to try comparing the retailers price to your prefered price. and then to also buy something when bitcoin was not at the 395.

again bitcoin is not at the point where average joe is ready to use it instantly. so spend bitcoin WHEN and only WHEN you are at profit.

you will only be a loser when you sell at a loss. so stop selling at a loss.

i buy my food, i pay my rent, and other bills with bitcoin and i have no problems.. yes i buy beer with it too.. this is because i am using my coins from last year. which means the 3btc a week i got per week last year, can pay for a month of living this year.

its called savings. (not sure if you remember the days when it was profitable to have a savings bank account to save money for future events and living expenses)

bitcoin is not the mindset of instant spend, because thats the mindset of governments deflationary FIAT where they want people to spend every penny so that they continually work longer hours and get taxed at every transaction and have nothing left over afterwards so that people naively believe that being taxed is a good thing because they think the government will look after them when they become poor/retire/unemployed.

bitcoin is about saving your funds and becoming self sufficient and to not need to be taxed for 'social security', but to know that your future use 'self secured'

[bitcoin_purist]

0.2btc for 76Euro= 380 for 1btc... i fail to see your problem with the price difference.

after all the price was moving from 375-395 in the space of a day, and different exchanges use different prices then the one that you prefered. so it was your choice and selfishness to try comparing the retailers price to your prefered price. and then to also buy something when bitcoin was not at the 395.

again bitcoin is not at the point where average joe is ready to use it instantly. so spend bitcoin WHEN and only WHEN you are at profit.

you will only be a loser when you sell at a loss. so stop selling at a loss.

i buy my food, i pay my rent, and other bills with bitcoin and i have no problems.. yes i buy beer with it too.. this is because i am using my coins from last year. which means the 3btc a week i got per week last year, can pay for a month of living this year.

its called savings. (not sure if you remember the days when it was profitable to have a savings bank account to save money for future events and living expenses)

bitcoin is not the mindset of instant spend, because thats the mindset of governments deflationary FIAT where they want people to spend every penny so that they continually work longer hours and get taxed at every transaction and have nothing left over afterwards so that people naively believe that being taxed is a good thing because they think the government will look after them when they become poor/retire/unemployed.

bitcoin is about saving your funds and becoming self sufficient and to not need to be taxed for 'social security', but to know that your future use 'self secured'

Fair points.
You've made me think a little bit different about it.
I have to spend some time thinking about what you've just said.
Thanks

[Lauda]

I've paid several times in bars and restaurants with bitcoin (I go there especially because of bitcoin) and every time I was ripped of.
Every time I paid a premium of 5 to 10% above FIAT price when I paid in bitcoin.
If bitcoin wants to succeed as a payment in bars and restaurants this really has to change.
The reason I did it was to show the experience to friends whom I sucked into the bitcoin sect.

Now I showed it to them all and I'm not going to use bitcoin for these purpose anymore untill the price is equal or cheaper.


Do other people have the same experience?

Interesting where did you pay using Bitcoin if I might know? I haven't tried it out myself but I am looking forward to it in the future.
You're mistaken here right now and the problem is volatility. This is not a problem of Bitcoin itself, but rather the bars and restaurants where you used it. You realize that some websites offer you a discount when you use Bitcoin? Should you be amazed by Bitcoin in this case?

[cointalent]

Until Bitcoin becomes more mainstream I see this happening a lot. I still think we're 10+ years away from having anything standardized enough for merchants to become concerned with public scorn over the prices they charge in BTC.

Once people start adding BTC price gouging to their Yelp reviews that's when change will start.