Bitcoin Forum
May 22, 2024, 04:05:18 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Why There Should Be A Bitcoin Central Bank  (Read 18282 times)
LakeBTC (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 903
Merit: 1000


LakeBTC.com


View Profile WWW
August 25, 2014, 01:40:43 AM
 #1

It is no secret that today, almost all modern banks operate on the basis of fractional reserves. To put in simpler terms: banks only has in their vaults a small percentage of the money that their customers gave them; if a large enough number of customers of a specific bank want to get their money back, the bank wouldn’t be able to meet the demand. Before there was modern central bank system, the bank could either have to borrow or file for bankruptcy. The central banks by design had infinite ability to lend, for they can legally conjure up money from thin air – there is a reason that modern currencies are called fiat money.

The Bitcoin world doesn’t have central banks, and this fact even appeal to some of its supporters with libertarian inclinations. Among these people, a widely-held belief is that bailing out insolvent banks is no different from highway robbing; if a bank screws up, the argument maintains, it should face the consequences alone, rather than letting all economy participants across the system to share the pain in the form of debased per unit currency value.

However, without a central bank system, a fractional reserve system can be risky. This is illustrated by the many failed banks in history and most recently, the spectacular fall of Mt. Gox. Before it became clear that the Bitcoin exchange was insolvent, users traded under the false assumption that they were trading their own bitcoins, when the reality is they were just trading in “Goxcoins”, which is just thin air. Later it is discovered that the exchange had lost tens of thousands of its customers’ coins; the cause remains a mystery to this day.

The collapse of Mt. Gox has great implications on the Bitcoin world. It shakes many people’s confidence in exchanges and security of the digital currency. Inevitably this has been factored into the price levels and employed by many Bitcoin critics – it is arguable that the psychological cost is even higher than the lost bitcoins.

In the aftermath, there was increasing demand for the exchanges to have 100% reserve ratio. In response, a cryptographic proof of reserve system was introduced to enable exchanges to prove that they can handle a Bitcoin version of run on the bank. Last week, OKCoin, a China-based Bitcoin exchange announced that they had passed a proof of reserve audit with its reserve ration of 104.86%. This means that the exchange has 4.86% in excess of the amount it owes its customers. While this is ensuring for OKCoin customers, it may not be a good thing for Bitcoin if you treat it as an economy system.

The benefit of fractional reserve banking is that it has positive effect on the economy by allowing banks to extend credit to people who are in need of it, provided the borrowers agree to pay back with an interest. In the Bitcoin world, such activities are rather discouraged. On one hand, the exchanges, which serve like banks in the sense that they are both custodians under obligation to safekeep customers’ assets, have to let all the coins sleeping in wallets in order to stay 100% solvent; on the other hand, market demand for coins in the market goes unmet.

A good solution for the problem at hand would be for the entire industry to agree to a certain reserve ratio, say 80%. This would cap the maximum risk, while giving the exchanges certain flexibility to engage in lending activity – one obvious benefit will be speeding up the circulation and increasing liquidity. Given that not all users have the same risk tolerance, they should be allowed to either opt for a zero-interest but full reserve account, or a fractional reserve but interest bearing one.

....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericxlmu/2014/08/24/why-there-should-be-a-bitcoin-central-bank/

LakeBanker: Free Banking for the World     LakeBanker.com   Token Sale. Participate Now!
toinew
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 61
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 02:13:23 AM
 #2

interest paid in bitcoin or in fiat ?

that would lead to the creation of "paper" bitcoin, because the bitcoin at the bank would worth less than a "real" bitcoin

, so by this banking magic trick you can have more than 21 millions bitcoins in circulation.
Also, an exchange should not be a bank.

Bitcoin individual wallets should be secure enough so as banks are not needed.


Also, why 80% fractional reserve ? if 80% why not 50% then 20, then 10, then 1% ?

There are 21 millions coins, the customers coins are not yours, and they should not be yours.

keithers
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456
Merit: 1001


This is the land of wolves now & you're not a wolf


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 02:21:10 AM
 #3

The elimination of a central bank is one of the key factors in the creation and the beauty of BTC.   A central bank would just be to apply old school banking procedures to crypto-currencies.   Not to mention a central bank would quickly become the target of more cyber attacks than probably anything on the planet.
fryarminer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 02:51:29 AM
 #4

People who want banks should just use cash.
Death
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 02:54:05 AM
 #5

BTC itself is a central bank, owned by the people. at least until some dude hoard all the money, again.
nioc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1624
Merit: 1008


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 02:56:54 AM
 #6

So Forbes Grin says we need a "central" Huh btc bank with "fractional reserve" Shocked banking. Tongue

That's it I'm in Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
jonald_fyookball
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004


Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 04:20:21 AM
Last edit: August 25, 2014, 04:32:02 AM by jonald_fyookball
 #7

this article is retarded.  demand for bitcoin can never go unmet because it's divisible. duhh. it just deflates (appreciates) in value.  there is no need for central banks or for fractional reserves.

Divinespark
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 501



View Profile
August 25, 2014, 04:30:41 AM
 #8

I am also a little lost
I thought the whole point of cryptos is to get out of the bubbles that the fractional reserve banking business entails

.AMEPAY..
█  FAST
█  CONVENIENT
█  SECURE
▄▄█████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████▄
▄█████████▀▀▄▀▀█████████▄

▄██████▄▄█▀ ▀█▄▄██████▄
███████  ▀▀█▄██▀▀▄███████
███████ █ ▄ █ ▄▀▀▄███████
████████ █ █ █ ▄▀▀▄████████
▀█████████▄█ █ ▄██████████▀
▀████████  ▀▀▀  ████████▀
▀█████████████████████▀
▀██
███████████████▀
▀▀█████████▀▀
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
||$600,000
worth of AME
.
!
▄▄█████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████▄
▄█████████▀▀▄▀▀█████████▄

▄██████▄▄█▀ ▀█▄▄██████▄
███████  ▀▀█▄██▀▀▄███████
███████ █ ▄ █ ▄▀▀▄███████
████████ █ █ █ ▄▀▀▄████████
▀█████████▄█ █ ▄██████████▀
▀████████  ▀▀▀  ████████▀
▀█████████████████████▀
▀██
███████████████▀
▀▀█████████▀▀
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
deepestfear
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 291
Merit: 250


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 04:56:20 AM
 #9

Absolutely against any centralising force in the ecosystem such as a Central Bank
Take responsibility for your wealth. BTC acts like a distributed central bank.

bornil267645
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 406
Merit: 250


AltoCenter.com


View Profile WWW
August 25, 2014, 06:25:40 AM
 #10

The reason for inventing Bitcoin is to avoid Bank, not just to use one. Cool Cool

Swordsoffreedom
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2772
Merit: 1115


Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform


View Profile WWW
August 25, 2014, 06:29:42 AM
 #11

People who want banks should just use cash.

A central bank is not needed in Bitcoin
Services that can convert bitcoin to local currencies and relationships will work.

As for reserve ratios fees will be greater in the long run and those will do the same work as fractional banking.
Simply put a 1% fee traded a hundred times will follow the same multiplier effect that a fractional reserve uses by utilizing its own profit margin and keeping it in Bitcoin the reserve ratio of the bank will artificially grow to cover the positions they have in the exchange.

As a result volume and trading will in time provide their own form of fractional reserve banking but actually be based on real assets.

..Stake.com..   ▄████████████████████████████████████▄
   ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄            ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██  ▄████▄
   ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██████████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██  ██████
   ██ ██████████ ██      ██ ██████████ ██   ▀██▀
   ██ ██      ██ ██████  ██ ██      ██ ██    ██
   ██ ██████  ██ █████  ███ ██████  ██ ████▄ ██
   ██ █████  ███ ████  ████ █████  ███ ████████
   ██ ████  ████ ██████████ ████  ████ ████▀
   ██ ██████████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████ ██
   ██            ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀            ██ 
   ▀█████████▀ ▄████████████▄ ▀█████████▀
  ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███  ██  ██  ███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 ██████████████████████████████████████████
▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄
█  ▄▀▄             █▀▀█▀▄▄
█  █▀█             █  ▐  ▐▌
█       ▄██▄       █  ▌  █
█     ▄██████▄     █  ▌ ▐▌
█    ██████████    █ ▐  █
█   ▐██████████▌   █ ▐ ▐▌
█    ▀▀██████▀▀    █ ▌ █
█     ▄▄▄██▄▄▄     █ ▌▐▌
█                  █▐ █
█                  █▐▐▌
█                  █▐█
▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█
▄▄█████████▄▄
▄██▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀██▄
▄█▀       ▐█▌       ▀█▄
██         ▐█▌         ██
████▄     ▄█████▄     ▄████
████████▄███████████▄████████
███▀    █████████████    ▀███
██       ███████████       ██
▀█▄       █████████       ▄█▀
▀█▄    ▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄  ▄▄▄█▀
▀███████         ███████▀
▀█████▄       ▄█████▀
▀▀▀███▄▄▄███▀▀▀
..PLAY NOW..
QuestionAuthority
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393


You lead and I'll watch you walk away.


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 06:42:01 AM
 #12

Isn't this what Realcoin is doing?

rax
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 86
Merit: 12


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 07:39:15 AM
Last edit: August 25, 2014, 09:07:48 AM by rax
 #13

Haha yeah, right. No. Maybe I totally missed the point but I always thought that exchanges were meant to exchange fiat money for altcoins and viceversa, not to engage in any kind of lending.
zetaray
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 07:46:29 AM
 #14

There shouldn't be any central bank for bitcoin because it will just inflate the money supply. The blockchain is the central "bank" in the form of a ledger.

.CryptoTotal.com.
                              l█████████▇▀
                              ████████▇▀
                              ███████▇▀
                              ██████▇▀
                              █████▇▀
                              ████▇▀
                              ███▇▀
                              ██▇▀
                              █▇▀
                              ▇▀
▇▇
▇▇

Express.Crypto.Checkout
Accepts Multiple Cryptos
Worldwide Shipping
lihuajkl
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1596
Merit: 1000


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 09:03:38 AM
 #15

Don't think a good idea! Once btc banks go to bankruptcy, no matter which customers will be losing BTC. There is no central government who will insure your BTC depost. There is no way to guarantee your fund.
titulng
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 484
Merit: 250


HubrisOne


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 09:11:26 AM
 #16

Haha yeah, right. No. Maybe I totally missed the point but I always thought that exchanges were meant to exchange fiat money for altcoins and viceversa, not to engage in any kind of lending.
what do you mean?

.
  ◆

 
.
.
.


 
.



▄▄       ▄▄      ▄▄       ▄▄      ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄         ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄        ▄▄        ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄           ▄▄▄            ▄▄       ▄▄      ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
██       ██      ██       ██      ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄       ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄      ██      ▐██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀       ▄▄██▀▀▀██▄▄        ▀██▄     ██      ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
▀▀       ██      ██       ██              ██               ██      ██      ██              ██▀       ▀██         ██▄    ██      ▄▄
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██      ██       ██      ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██▀       ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██▀      ██      ▐██▄▄▄▄        ▐█           █▌      █▄ ▀██   ██      ██▄▄▄▄
██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██      ██       ██      ██▀▀▀▀▀██        ██▀▀▀▀▀▀        ██        ▀▀▀▀██▄      ▐█           █▌      ██   ██▄ ██      ██▀▀▀▀
██       ██      ██       ██      ██      ██       ██   ▄▄         ██             ▐█▌     ▐█▄         ▄█▌      ██    ▀█▄██      ██
██       ██       ██▄   ▄██       ██     ▄█▀       ██    ▀█▄       ██            ▄██       ▀██▄▄   ▄▄██▀       ██     ▀███      ██
██       ██        ▀▀███▀▀        ████████▀        ██      ▀█      ██      ███████▀           ▀▀███▀▀          ██       ██      ██████████
.

██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████

██████████████████████████████████████████████
.


.
.




▄███████████▄     
██▀       ▐█▀█▄   
██        ▐█  ▀█▄ 
██        ▐█    ▀█▄
██        ▝▀▀▀▀▀▀██
██               ██
██  ███████████  ██
██               ██
██  ██████       ██
██               ██
██▄             ▄██
▀█████████████████▀
WP
.


.
.


.


 
.
.
Plank
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 61
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 09:31:10 AM
 #17

There is no bitcoin central bank but there are bitcoin central wallets which regulate the bitcoins. Probably of the makers.
intron
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 427
Merit: 251


- electronics design|embedded software|verilog -


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 09:32:40 AM
 #18


that would lead to the creation of "paper" bitcoin, because the bitcoin at the bank would worth less than a "real" bitcoin


At some point in time there will be paper bitcoin.
Just like paper gold, paper wheat and paper
pork belly. Just wait for the guys from Wall Street
march in...
rax
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 86
Merit: 12


View Profile
August 25, 2014, 09:45:52 AM
 #19

Haha yeah, right. No. Maybe I totally missed the point but I always thought that exchanges were meant to exchange fiat money for altcoins and viceversa, not to engage in any kind of lending.
what do you mean?

Alright, let me elaborate this a little. The point of the fractional reserve scheme is to allow banks to lend more money than they actually have in its vaults. That's why banking is inherently a risky (and I'd say fraudulent) business, and why a central bank is needed to guarantee deposits, prevent bank runs and instill trust to the depositors.

What I meant to say is that the exchanges' core business is not banking, so none of this applies.

Moreover, central banks can print as much money as they feel like (and they need to be able to do that in order to fulfill their duties). Where would a bitcoin central bank get their bitcoins from?  Wink
bitsmichel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 25, 2014, 10:13:49 AM
 #20

The Bitcoin world doesn’t have central banks, and this fact even appeal to some of its supporters with libertarian inclinations. Among these people, a widely-held belief is that bailing out insolvent banks is no different from highway robbing; if a bank screws up, the argument maintains, it should face the consequences alone, rather than letting all economy participants across the system to share the pain in the form of debased per unit currency value.

In a capitalist system any company can fail or succeed, it's up to the company to make profits not up to society. Therefore the current system enforced by the government is not a capitalistic system.

Quote
However, without a central bank system, a fractional reserve system can be risky. This is illustrated by the many failed banks in history and most recently, the spectacular fall of Mt. Gox. Before it became clear that the Bitcoin exchange was insolvent, users traded under the false assumption that they were trading their own bitcoins, when the reality is they were just trading in “Goxcoins”, which is just thin air. Later it is discovered that the exchange had lost tens of thousands of its customers’ coins; the cause remains a mystery to this day.
There is no mystery, Mr. Karpales has them  Wink


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!