[ANN] Paytunia Bitcoin wallet released today!

[davout]

Hello everyone !

The Paymium team and I are very proud to announce the launch of Paytunia, our brand new Bitcoin lightweight wallet solution !

We designed it to be fast, simple and secure.

You can sign-up online at https://paytunia.com, directly from your Android phone or use an existing Bitcoin-Central.net account.

We will soon be launching our iPhone app on Apple's AppStore, in the meantime we'll be sending 30 beta invitations to install the application on your iOS device for free (your phone doesn't need to be jailbroken). Use a support ticket to request an invite. First come, first serve.

You can read the announcement here.

We'd be very pleased to hear about your questions and comments !

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[BitPay Business Solutions]

nice!  I signed up for iOS beta, I will test it with our payment system.

[kjlimo]

Seems like it's already on the Android Market.  I guess the beta is just for Iphone?

So since I have an android, I don't need the Beta.  Sorry for the unnecessary ticket.

[davout]

I guess the beta is just for Iphone?

Yes, however don't hesitate to share ideas and suggestions regarding the Android version

[Boussac]

Seems like it's already on the Android Market.  I guess the beta is just for Iphone?

So since I have an android, I don't need the Beta.  Sorry for the unnecessary ticket.

No problem:

The mobile light client is available on Google Play (formerly known as Android Market) for mobile phones from version 2.2 and up (that is 9 Android devices out of 10).

[rjk]

When is anyone going to release a wallet for the most secure platform available (Blackberry)? 
I mean damn, it's FIPS certified for secret government information, isn't that good enough?

[finway]

What's new of this wallet app ?

[davout]

When is anyone going to release a wallet for the most secure platform available (Blackberry)? 
I mean damn, it's FIPS certified for secret government information, isn't that good enough?

Soon !

What's new of this wallet app ?

It is dead-easy to use, it doesn't target hardcore users, but a much broader audience, and it is fast.
Also it will in a close future be tightly integrated with Instawallet in order to be as anonymous as you want it to be.

Our roadmap also has plans to reduce the gap between fiat and Bitcoin, we'll communicate about this in the next couple of months.

[Koekiemonster]

Requested bèta! We need a good iOS wallet!

[RodeoX]

Thanks for producing this davout, these is a great need for an iso wallet. Can I ask if both sender and receiver need Paytunia for this to work? I was not quite sure from the description.

[kjlimo]

Are my bitcoins stored on my phone or on a server somewhere?  Does this make a wallet.dat file on my phone, or am I making an online bank account with bitcoins in it?

[davout]

Thanks for producing this davout, these is a great need for an iso wallet. Can I ask if both sender and receiver need Paytunia for this to work? I was not quite sure from the description.

Transfers are instant between Paytunia users, if you receive money from the Bitcoin network you will have to wait for two confirmations.

Are my bitcoins stored on my phone or on a server somewhere?  Does this make a wallet.dat file on my phone, or am I making an online bank account with bitcoins in it?

Bitcoins are stored in Paytunia's hosted wallet, which contains only a small fraction of the deposits. Your phone is a lightweight client consuming our API, which is compatible with the Bitcoin-Central.net API.

There already exists an iOS app that act as a full Bitcoin node, but we think that's overkill given the limited storage amount and network connectivity of such an iPhone.

Paytunia does not require 1G+ free space, doesn't take more than a few seconds to get started with, and will notify you of balance updates whether you're on Wifi, 3G, or regular network. Oh, and it's gonna be free too !

[kjlimo]

Oh, and it's gonna be free too !

How are you going to be able to keep it free forever?

[matonis]

Congrats on Paytunia being released!  If davout is involved, I already trust it.

[davout]

Is there an android version ?

Yes, absolutely, you'll find it here

How are you going to be able to keep it free forever?

We have a couple of options regarding this, whatever happens will be announced way in advance though.

[Stephen Gornick]

Bitcoins are stored in Paytunia's hosted wallet, which contains only a small fraction of the deposits. Your phone is a lightweight client consuming our API, which is compatible with the Bitcoin-Central.net API.

Will there (eventually) be a website for me to send money from this wallet as well then?

[davout]

Will there (eventually) be a website for me to send money from this wallet as well then?

If you're asking whether the wallet is also available on the web, then yes, it is available from the Paytunia website.
If you already have a Bitcoin-Central.net account you can use it to sign-in.

[Stephen Gornick]

If you're asking whether the wallet is also available on the web, then yes, it is available from the Paytunia website.
If you already have a Bitcoin-Central.net account you can use it to sign-in.

Oh, I see -- once I've signed in.  Send and receive, and history -- all there.

So this also works as a web-based e-wallet even for those who don't use a mobile client.
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/EWallet

Paytunia may be the first hosted e-wallet that has the option to switch to French language?

One caveat ,.... there is no warning if you choose to use a weak password.

[teflone]

Good job..

[ysoliman]

Beta access requested.
Hopefully looking forward to using this as an iOS wallet 

[evoorhees]

Absolutely beautiful design. I LOVE it. Will be recommending it as the best option for anyone who's not a hardcore user. I think this is finally an ewallet/phone wallet for the masses. Really well done!!

[Stephen Gornick]

Could not send a payment:

> should not be smaller than 0.05 BTC

Can minimum amounts be eliminated?   If it is "spammy" then ask if I'll pay the fee for withdrawal, but I should have the option to send a 12 millibits payment (.012 BTC) if I want.

[davout]

One caveat ,.... there is no warning if you choose to use a weak password.

That is correct, I've logged an issue to improve this. Thanks for the feedback!

Can minimum amounts be eliminated?   If it is "spammy" then ask if I'll pay the fee for withdrawal, but I should have the option to send a 12 millibits payment (.012 BTC) if I want.

Yes, we're looking into options to improve this, improvement might come from the bitcoin client itself, with transactional fee handling (ie. knowing in advance the required fee prior to actually posting the transaction), it might also come from us partnering with, or launching a mining pool.

The minimal amount constraint will, however, soon be dropped for transfers between Paytunia users.

Absolutely beautiful design. I LOVE it. Will be recommending it as the best option for anyone who's not a hardcore user. I think this is finally an ewallet/phone wallet for the masses. Really well done!!

Thank you!

[Grami]

I have open ticket for iOS beta.) Hoping Apple will not ban this app as it likes.)

[davout]

You wouldn't happen to have a .apk for download somewhere
instead of forcing folks to use the f*%@king app store ?

We have nothing against skipping Google Play and publishing an APK directly, I'm not really sure about what the problem with Google Play though, could you be a little more specific ?

[Grami]

It's very hard for me to understand how anyone interested in bitcoin can bear
to use one of their product or give them a single cent of their money.

Bitcoin is the best currency, iPhone is the best phone

[Grami]

Can you watch porn on your phone ? Or for that matter
do anything that hasn't been approved by the Apple police ?

Sure it's the best phone. If you don't mind living in stepford.

Hm, youporn.com works fine

[davout]

I'm talking about apps. And count yourself lucky
that you still have unrestricted access to the web
on your iPhone. Let's see how long that lasts.

Let's remain on topic, please.

[Grami]

Let's remain on topic, please.

I need iOS betta app. Can you send invite?

[davout]

I need iOS betta app. Can you send invite?

Please open a support ticket from your account.

[Jan]

Absolutely beautiful design. I LOVE it. Will be recommending it as the best option for anyone who's not a hardcore user. I think this is finally an ewallet/phone wallet for the masses. Really well done!!

Beautiful design is not everything.
Isn't this a Bitcoin bank? We should not forget what happened with Mybitcoin. What prevents Paytunia from running away with my money?

There are alternative mobile Bitcoin wallets out there that are just as light weight and fast, the main difference being that your private key is not stored centrally.

[davout]

Beautiful design is not everything.

My bad, I forgot to mention that the code is beautiful too.

Isn't this a Bitcoin bank?

Not really, we're full reserve and we don't lend out money with interests.
We do, however, keep money safe and provide services to our customers, which we think is a good thing.

We should not forget what happened with Mybitcoin. What prevents Paytunia from running away with my money?

- We're nothing like mybitcoin, first of all Paytunia is beautiful like you said .
 - Secondly it's run by a registered and liable French company, my name and the ones of my associates are pretty much public if you care to search a little bit.
 - Finally it wouldn't make sense to rip a few users out of their money and pass on the opportunity to be an important player in the Bitcoin world.

There are alternative mobile Bitcoin wallets out there that are just as light weight and fast, the main difference being that your private key is not stored centrally.

Be my guest, name one that has an iOS version. Yep, that's what I thought

[evoorhees]

It says it can't be installed on my Samsung Galaxy S2 ... :\

That's weird, I'm using it on my Galaxy S2 without issue.

[evoorhees]

Beautiful design is not everything.
Isn't this a Bitcoin bank? We should not forget what happened with Mybitcoin. What prevents Paytunia from running away with my money?

True, beautiful design is not everything. But it's about damn time some bitcoin services finally had it.

What prevents any company from running away with your money (bitcoin related or otherwise)? Even before launching, Paytunia and the people behind it are much more credible. Skepticism is healthy, so just don't keep tons of money somewhere you're not sure of.

[Jan]

Beautiful design is not everything.

My bad, I forgot to mention that the code is beautiful too.

Isn't this a Bitcoin bank?

Not really, we're full reserve and we don't lend out money with interests.
We do, however, keep money safe and provide services to our customers, which we think is a good thing.

We should not forget what happened with Mybitcoin. What prevents Paytunia from running away with my money?

- We're nothing like mybitcoin, first of all Paytunia is beautiful like you said .
 - Secondly it's run by a registered and liable French company, my name and the ones of my associates are pretty much public if you care to search a little bit.
 - Finally it wouldn't make sense to rip a few users out of their money and pass on the opportunity to be an important player in the Bitcoin world.

There are alternative mobile Bitcoin wallets out there that are just as light weight and fast, the main difference being that your private key is not stored centrally.

Be my guest, name one that has an iOS version. Yep, that's what I thought

It has been shown that you can make a light-weight and fast Bitcoin client where you do not give away your private keys.
Since you have the resources to develop clients for multiple platforms, how come you didn't choose to let your users be in control of their keys?
In doing so your customers would be a lot safer against a disgrunted employee, or a successful hacker.

[kwukduck]

My coins belong on my phone, nowhere else

But nice initiative for new users.

[minimalB]

Be my guest, name one that has an iOS version. Yep, that's what I thought

blockchain wallet is pretty neat and gives you control of your private keys
https://www.blockchain.info/wallet/iphone-app

I believe keeping keys private / locally is HUGE!

[Stephen Gornick]

I believe keeping keys private / locally is HUGE!

I had replied to another thread but that hasn't had any response there so I'm reposting it here as it applies to this thread as well (well, it applies to most every mobile app which can spend bitcoins):

What I am concerned with is "the Linode problem".  All these mobiles are managed devices.   They can be fully controlled by someone other than the owner of the device.  Yes, they are managed by the carrier but possibly that carrier has people that cannot be trusted or, just as bad, has people who don't maintain secure systems themselves such as what reportedly is what happened at Linode.

The importance is thiis.  An attack that defrauds M-Pesa's customers en mass means Safaricom figures out at some point that there's a problem, halts all affected systems to prevent further losses, and in the end eats some, most or all of the customer's losses.  A similar attack through the managed services of the mobile network to steal bitcoins from mobiles means just that the individual mobile user alone loses out.  Just like how Linode disavowed any responsibility to Slush, Bitcoinica, etc. for the tens of thousands of bitcoins lost, Safaricom would likely maintain the same position.

So, this is a fundamental question -- is the practice of storing bitcoin private keys on the mobile something that exposes it to too much risk to where it shouldn't even be considered?  i.e., bitcoin apps for mobile need to be under the same model that mobile banking (like M-Pesa) uses?

[weex]

This is a bit OT for Paytunia but to address Stephen's concern, I would take a practical approach and compare the threat to others of using a mobile device that is effectively under the control of an untrusted party. I would recommend only storing spending money on your mobile...enough to get you through a few days. This can be analogized to the amount of cash a reasonable person might like to carry with them.

Compare the stolen bitcoins problem with the importance of the email accounts we access from our mobile phones. An email account can often be used to reset passwords on 10s of services that might be of more long-term importance than the $50-100 worth of coins on a phone. Just trying to put it in perspective...

Also, I guess we should not ignore that it's much easier to turn 1000 or 100,000 phones with bitcoin into money than that many email accounts. So maybe carry a bit less and reload more often?

[Jan]

I believe keeping keys private / locally is HUGE!

I had replied to another thread but that hasn't had any response there so I'm reposting it here as it applies to this thread as well (well, it applies to most every mobile app which can spend bitcoins):

What I am concerned with is "the Linode problem".  All these mobiles are managed devices.   They can be fully controlled by someone other than the owner of the device.  Yes, they are managed by the carrier but possibly that carrier has people that cannot be trusted or, just as bad, has people who don't maintain secure systems themselves such as what reportedly is what happened at Linode.

The importance is thiis.  An attack that defrauds M-Pesa's customers en mass means Safaricom figures out at some point that there's a problem, halts all affected systems to prevent further losses, and in the end eats some, most or all of the customer's losses.  A similar attack through the managed services of the mobile network to steal bitcoins from mobiles means just that the individual mobile user alone loses out.  Just like how Linode disavowed any responsibility to Slush, Bitcoinica, etc. for the tens of thousands of bitcoins lost, Safaricom would likely maintain the same position.

So, this is a fundamental question -- is the practice of storing bitcoin private keys on the mobile something that exposes it to too much risk to where it shouldn't even be considered?  i.e., bitcoin apps for mobile need to be under the same model that mobile banking (like M-Pesa) uses?

My android device is certainly not managed by my carrier. My carrier provides access to their network but can do nothing on my phone. My carrier has no software running on my device, and the worst thing they can do is not providing access to their network. They have the same power over my device that my ISP has over my desktop computer. Nothing.
You cannot compare M-pesa with Bitcoin.

[Grami]

I need iOS betta app. Can you send invite?

Please open a support ticket from your account.

I did it yesterday, but have not receive any invite.

[R-]

Looking forward to testing this.

[Jan]

My android device is certainly not managed by my carrier. My carrier provides access to their network but can do nothing on my phone. My carrier has no software running on my device, and the worst thing they can do is not providing access to their network. They have the same power over my device that my ISP has over my desktop computer. Nothing.
You cannot compare M-pesa with Bitcoin.

If that's the case (i.e. they may have access and you don't even realize it), then you're an exception.
Most people have a phone where the carrier has exceptionally deep access to the device.

It continues to amaze me how paranoid people are on this forum.
So what you are saying is that when I have a android/iphone that is reset to factory defaults and I then insert a sim card from some carrier, then the carrier can get control of my phone. You cannot be serious. Guys, bring out your tinfoil hats.

[Stephen Gornick]

So what you are saying is that when I have a android/iphone that is reset to factory defaults and I then insert a sim card from some carrier, then the carrier can get control of my phone.

Does your phone automatically get updated?

If so, someone else has the ability to control your phone.

[R-]

Hi,
 Do you have an idea of when the iOS App might get approval?

Thanks
Robert

[Boussac]

@jan

Please, let people decide wether they prefer secure hosted keys or on-board mobile keys: the risk profiles of each solution are different but none can be said better than the other in absolute terms.

[rjk]

@jan

Please, let people decide wether they prefer secure hosted keys or on-board mobile keys: the risk profiles of each solution are different but none can be said better than the other in absolute terms.

Most people aren't even aware of the difference, let alone the risk. Always good to have both perspectives available.

[Boussac]

Requested bèta! We need a good iOS wallet!

We plan on sending the iOS invitations Tuesday.
To those of you who requested the iOS beta (through a Paytunia support ticket), thanks for your patience 

[davout]

Thank you all for your great feedback!

Soon we'll be posting on our blog about the future of Paytunia and its place in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
We'll use this as an opportunity to address some of the concerns that have been expressed here.

Stay tuned!

[Stephen Gornick]

When using the website wallet and clicking Receive I do get a little box with a QR code.  It tells me I need to click the QR code for it to copy the Bitcoin address to the clipboard.  

I'm a select text, copy and paste kind of guy.

Couldn't it simply display the public bitcoin address as well, to serve all rather than forcing users to adopt to this fancier method?

[Update: Not only that, couldn't clicking on the QR code (and/or the bitcoin address if you add that ) use the BIP 21 format?  bitcoin:12ab34C1P7tY6e4nKYDNe4nKYWhe4nKYt
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0021 ]

[davout]

When using the website wallet and clicking Receive I do get a little box with a QR code.  It tells me I need to click the QR code for it to copy the Bitcoin address to the clipboard.  

I'm a select text, copy and paste kind of guy.

Couldn't it simply display the public bitcoin address as well, to serve all rather than forcing users to adopt to this fancier method?

Granted, check it out and tell me what you think about it

[Update: Not only that, couldn't clicking on the QR code (and/or the bitcoin address if you add that ) use the BIP 21 format?  bitcoin:12ab34C1P7tY6e4nKYDNe4nKYWhe4nKYt
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0021 ]

Good catch! I really want to implement it properly though, with optional amount, label etc... So it won't happen right now, but definitely soon!

[Stephen Gornick]

Couldn't it simply display the public bitcoin address as well, to serve all rather than forcing users to adopt to this fancier method?

Granted, check it out and tell me what you think about it

Ok, that's perfect.

Except, I also tried clicking on the QR code to test that, and that doesn't seem to copy to clipboard.   I don't know if it worked earlier, I never pasted after it said copied to clipboard.   I am using Chrome v18.

[Littleshop]

Seems nice, but I don't like the 6 day coin return thing.  I would prefer it to be longer or self settable. 

[Mushoz]

Can't install this build. Tells me I need 5.0, while I'm running 4.3.1 Too bad

[davout]

I think it really depends on what capabilities we're looking at :
 - web browsing ?
 - e-mail ?
 - what are the possibilities in terms of app development ?

I think the most portable wallet would be something SMS-based :
 - send a SMS to create a password protected wallet,
 - you're answered with a wallet ID,
 - you send money to someone by sending your wallet ID, your password, and the amount by SMS,
 - you're answered with your updated balance

[rjk]

Many feature phones have a very stripped down java VM, and you have to code for an insanely small screen. It isn't much fun, and besides all that you have to deal with communication, which sure isn't 3G or better - it's going to be GPRS or SMS. No fun.

[davout]

Many feature phones have a very stripped down java VM, and you have to code for an insanely small screen. It isn't much fun, and besides all that you have to deal with communication, which sure isn't 3G or better - it's going to be GPRS or SMS. No fun.

Yeah, that sure wouldn't be very much fun.
However, the more I think about it, the more an SMS wallet sounds like a terrific idea!

[World]

nice idea

[davout]

We have just published a build!

If you requested an invite and registered with testflight you can now install Paytunia on your iPhone !

[ffe]

track

[finway]

Can't find the app on ios APPStore

[Boussac]

Can't find the app on ios APPStore

Correct, for iOS, you get it through a Testflight invitation: should you want one, please create a support ticket on paytunia.com to request it and you'll be on for the next build.

Android users: it's a lot simpler, you find it in Google play !

[Stephen Gornick]

I see there is a Greek translation of Paytunia released.  Is this the first translation of the app?  (i.e. no other languages other than the original English version are available yet?)  Any plans for additional translations?

[Kris]

On your API page, can you place the QR-code image on HTTPS, otherwise you'll break your SSL.

The same goes for your about page. Initialize Google maps with SSL instead of HTTP.

--
Kris

[Boussac]

I see there is a Greek translation of Paytunia released.  Is this the first translation of the app?  (i.e. no other languages other than the original English version are available yet?)  Any plans for additional translations?

Paytunia mobile was originally released in English and French.
Now that we are translating we started with Greek as a tribute to a country struggling with the devastating effects of mismanaged central money.
We have plans to release next German, Portuguese, Spanish and ..Vietnamese ( not in chronological order)
Please stay tuned and let us know of any inaccuracies you may find in your native language translation of paytunia. Thanks.

[davout]

On your API page, can you place the QR-code image on HTTPS, otherwise you'll break your SSL.

The same goes for your about page. Initialize Google maps with SSL instead of HTTP.

--
Kris

Fixed.
Thank you for reporting

[Danijel Habek]

Hi,

I'm too on the board with other users that cannot install Paytunia due to incompatible device.
I have installed custom rom, but my device isn't recognized with Google play, since it is originally ment to have up to android 2.1, and I currently have 2.3 running great.

Can you maybe release the Paytunia .apk to the mobilism.org and it's mobilism store that is more friendly to general android user than Google itself?

For some phones me and my family members own, I couldn't care less for google, and haven't let the google know my data, and I don't want to open account at google just to be able to install apps I'm using.

Thanks!

[davout]

Hi,

I'm too on the board with other users that cannot install Paytunia due to incompatible device.
I have installed custom rom, but my device isn't recognized with Google play, since it is originally ment to have up to android 2.1, and I currently have 2.3 running great.

Can you maybe release the Paytunia .apk to the mobilism.org and it's mobilism store that is more friendly to general android user than Google itself?

For some phones me and my family members own, I couldn't care less for google, and haven't let the google know my data, and I don't want to open account at google just to be able to install apps I'm using.

Thanks!

I'm not sure about the mobilism store but the APK is now available directly at https://paytunia.com/paytunia.apk

[Danijel Habek]

Yup!
Working great. Thanks davout!

[Stephen Gornick]

We'd be very pleased to hear about your questions and comments !

I tried to install Paytunia on a Nexus 7 (Android 4.2.1) and it shows "Your device isn't compatible with this version."

Are there any plans to remedy this?

[gabbergabe]

cook ill try it out!