Dawkins: Immoral Not To Abort Down’s Syndrome Child

[awesome31312]

Wilikon, the first example of eugenics comes from God, in Genesis, when he cleanses the world of "wickedness", Noah's flood, the water symbolizes cleansing the world.

So it is OK for eugenics to play God, especially when they are atheists like dawkins (not saying he believes in eugenics but...)?

"If God did it in a book of fiction I don't believe in, that gives me the right to do it and impose my self indulged righteousness upon others!"

Yep. Thank you for using the Bible as an example for what dawkins believes... 

That wasn't what I was implying, I'm just saying that it is a poor argument from the religious folk.

I researched a lot on Eugenics last year, and it turns out, the religious did it the most.

I did not know adolph was such a religious dude, when most know how passionate he felt about eugenics and trying so hard to keep his score on top of the killing pyramid...

But you may be right: religious folks did worse than him and his belief in Übermensch, based on your research last year... 

A belief in Ubermensch, untouchables in Hinduism, infidels in Islam, apostates in Christianity

[Wilikon]

Wilikon, the first example of eugenics comes from God, in Genesis, when he cleanses the world of "wickedness", Noah's flood, the water symbolizes cleansing the world.

So it is OK for eugenics to play God, especially when they are atheists like dawkins (not saying he believes in eugenics but...)?

"If God did it in a book of fiction I don't believe in, that gives me the right to do it and impose my self indulged righteousness upon others!"

Yep. Thank you for using the Bible as an example for what dawkins believes... 

That wasn't what I was implying, I'm just saying that it is a poor argument from the religious folk.

I researched a lot on Eugenics last year, and it turns out, the religious did it the most.

I did not know adolph was such a religious dude, when most know how passionate he felt about eugenics and trying so hard to keep his score on top of the killing pyramid...

But you may be right: religious folks did worse than him and his belief in Übermensch, based on your research last year... 

A belief in Ubermensch, untouchables in Hinduism, infidels in Islam, apostates in Christianity

Even if you include islam it is not enough to out score adolph's killing spree and his belief in eugenics... According to my research last year...

[awesome31312]

Hitler was either carrying out Eugenics, or he was following the Bible (The word "Holocaust" comes from the Bible, and translates from Hebrew to "A sacrifical burnt offering")

[Honeypot]

No christian 'apostate' in mainstream christianity has to flee to another 'free' country in fear of their lives.

It's laughable how people think they can take pot shots are christianity to somehow paint theirs in less than negative light.

[awesome31312]

No christian 'apostate' in mainstream christianity has to flee to another 'free' country in fear of their lives.

It's laughable how people think they can take pot shots are christianity to somehow paint theirs in less than negative light.

Unless you're in Uganda

[Wilikon]

Hitler was either carrying out Eugenics, or he was following the Bible (The word "Holocaust" comes from the Bible, and translates from Hebrew to "A sacrifical burnt offering")

I did not know hitler himself not only had named his own death plan "The Holocaust" but also could have been following the Bible, a book mostly about... Jews? Interesting. Yeah, I have the feeling he was carrying out his eugenics vision into reality....

Funny you mention hitler. Did you know he was not a fan of Down syndrome babies? He found a way to deal with them.
What Would Dawkins Do?

[awesome31312]

Hitler was either carrying out Eugenics, or he was following the Bible (The word "Holocaust" comes from the Bible, and translates from Hebrew to "A sacrifical burnt offering")

I did not know hitler himself not only had named his own death plan "The Holocaust" but also could have been following the Bible, a book mostly about... Jews? Interesting. Yeah, I have the feeling he was carrying out his eugenics vision into reality....

Funny you mention hitler. Did you know he was not a fan of Down syndrome babies? He found a way to deal with them.
What Would Dawkins Do?

Argumentum Ad Hitlerium

[Wilikon]

Hitler was either carrying out Eugenics, or he was following the Bible (The word "Holocaust" comes from the Bible, and translates from Hebrew to "A sacrifical burnt offering")

I did not know hitler himself not only had named his own death plan "The Holocaust" but also could have been following the Bible, a book mostly about... Jews? Interesting. Yeah, I have the feeling he was carrying out his eugenics vision into reality....

Funny you mention hitler. Did you know he was not a fan of Down syndrome babies? He found a way to deal with them.
What Would Dawkins Do?

Argumentum Ad Hitlerium

Funny you mention hitler... Again. I guess you agree with dawkings and his position regarding DS babies if you keep talking about anything but him.

[Full Spectrum]

I'll say having children period is immoral, your bringing them into a world where they will feel pain, where their labor will be taxed away at every turn. Better not to have children at all, gives more wealth to the people already living.

[freedomno1]

I'm heartless sometimes in this case I think that it's a choice in the end
But I would say aborting is a reasonable decision here if the child would suffer for their life because of it then one could persist through but in honesty it really is a tough choice to make.
People who are arguing from their viewpoint have a right to opinion and discussion and I would also do a half assed apology for these people sure your entitled to your opinion don't spoon feed me your bull because you think I offended you for speaking my mind.

(that said there is such a thing as tact in your word choice and there are much better ways to get the same message across here)

[awesome31312]

I'll say having children period is immoral, you're bringing them into a world where they will feel pain, where their labor will be taxed away at every turn. Better not to have children at all, gives more wealth to the people already living.

That's Buddhist ideology, and I totally agree

[BADecker]

We all struggle to live. A Down's kid is struggling to live even harder. Aborting a kid who is struggling so hard to live sounds cruel to me.

[Wilikon]

I'll say having children period is immoral, your bringing them into a world where they will feel pain, where their labor will be taxed away at every turn. Better not to have children at all, gives more wealth to the people already living.

Not everyone were born in a test tube, without parents like you...

[BADecker]

I'll say having children period is immoral, your bringing them into a world where they will feel pain, where their labor will be taxed away at every turn. Better not to have children at all, gives more wealth to the people already living.

Not everyone were born in a test tube, without parents like you...

Now, now. Be gentle. Full Spectrum doesn't realize that he isn't as full as he thinks he is.

[Wilikon]

I'll say having children period is immoral, your bringing them into a world where they will feel pain, where their labor will be taxed away at every turn. Better not to have children at all, gives more wealth to the people already living.

Not everyone were born in a test tube, without parents like you...

Now, now. Be gentle. Full Spectrum doesn't realize that he isn't as full as he thinks he is.

As long as he realizes he had to be alive, feel pain and pay taxes to let the world knows everyone else should stop procreate after his birth AND share their wealth (to him who else). Of course if he was born without a navel in a Martian lab then I stand corrected 

[BADecker]

I'll say having children period is immoral, your bringing them into a world where they will feel pain, where their labor will be taxed away at every turn. Better not to have children at all, gives more wealth to the people already living.

Not everyone were born in a test tube, without parents like you...

Now, now. Be gentle. Full Spectrum doesn't realize that he isn't as full as he thinks he is.

As long as he realizes he had to be alive, feel pain and pay taxes to let the world knows everyone else should stop procreate after his birth AND share their wealth (to him who else). Of course if he was born without a navel in a Martian lab then I stand corrected  

Of course the kids he is talking about will feel pain. But they will have a lot of fun making more kids who will feel pain and have a lot of fun making more kids who will feel pain and have a lot of fun making more kids who will feel pain and have a lot of fun making................

[sana8410]

Obviously it is up to each family to do what they believe is the right thing for them, I would never judge anybody having to decide whether to abort a child. But, much as I admire Richard Dawkins, that is precisely what I object to him doing. He says not aborting a fetus is "immoral" - why? And who is he to judge?

[noviapriani]

I think Down's syndrome is a special case because many can live worthwhile lives and give pleasure to those around them. Of course they do require some additional support and if the parents, who are often older than the average because of the way Down's is generated, may become ill or even die before their Down's offspring - who are now living longer than the three or four decades that they used to. But society is prepared to support people who are fit and healthy but unemployable for whatever reason.

[awesome31312]

What's a fun fact is that Stephen Hawkings would have been declared unfit and denied a right to live, sending us back about forty years in astrophysics.

[Mr.Bitty]

He's got a point, ya know. It's not just an issue of the child's rights, either, it's an issue of responsibility. Most parents can't afford to pay for the medical costs of raising children with certain disorders, yet choose to have them anyway knowing full well they'll be a tax burden on society. I kind of have a problem with that.