Your dream political system

[BitCoinNutJob]

So if you find a way to make gold for cheap you dont tell anyone, its kinda like if you've hacked bitcoin.

[gts476]

I think so.

Einstein's energy - mass equivalence, e=mc^2

so (simplified) to create mass we need energy, e/(c^2)

it then boils down to (assuming we have the tech to do this and just needed energy) energy efficiency or, restated, how much useful energy can you extract from a fuel source?

Because our present energy systems are of low absolute efficiency (for example, cars have about 35% from wikipedia, so only 35% of the energy is able to be used for work) the amount of energy to create mass is unphysical (the fuel resources are not cheap and there not getting cheaper)

So (again, assuming the tech is there, which is really, really isn't) a CHEAP energy source would be required, such as the energy released by nuclear reactions (fission, released energy by splitting atoms or fussion, releasing energy by fusing them together)

But even with all this energy in order to induce these reactions like this particle colliders are required (because presently, the most efficient way to provide this energy to induce a reaction to turn lead into gold or star trek it is by accelerating tiny particles to near the speed of light iin multi-billion dollar miles long particle colliders).

star trek tech requires on demand mini neuclear reactors and mini particle colliders that are the size of small countries.

Which sucks because I physicked because I wanted a lightsaber :/

[gts476]

So if you find a way to make gold for cheap you dont tell anyone, its kinda like if you've hacked bitcoin.

If you've done that you've reduced the cost of energy down to basicly 0 and made it an (for all purposes) unlimited resource. As money is a store of economic energy, which is a function of biological / physical energy, you've ended the need for storing economic energy by creating unlimited, free energy and so unlimited free resources.....

If economics is the problem of limited resources and unlimited wants, you've killed economics.

would be a creepy social structure if that happened, my money is on raise of dictators (with lightsabers?)

[aigeezer]

Just try to imagine that you have got an absolute power in some way.. It doesn't matter how, maybe through a coup, from royal ancestry or as the result of mutual destruction of existing opposition. Which kind of political system would you prefer to create?

A variant of this, sometimes played with by Mensans, is that after one person describes their ideal system a second person gets to choose a role for the first person within that system. Things then become very messy as the implications dawn.

Corny example:

A: I would pick a monarchy. I've always wanted to be king/queen.
B: OK, monarchy it is. You are a peasant within the monarchy and one of the arrogant nobles has just noticed your daughter. Is it still your system of choice?
A: No, no, of course not. Umm - I pick a completely flat egalitarian system then. Nobody has any special ranks, privileges, entitlements and so forth.
B: OK, egalitarian it is. You are a megalomaniac within that flat system. You are sure that you know best. You crave power and you need to be the boss. Is it still your system of choice?
A: No, I guess not. Umm - I know - the golden rule - do unto others - will be the only rule in my system.
B: OK, golden rule it is. You are a masochist within that system, begging others to beat you. Every time you come upon a sadist they refuse to do it. Is it still your system of choice?

Crazy-making stuff.     

[BitCoinNutJob]

So if you find a way to make gold for cheap you dont tell anyone, its kinda like if you've hacked bitcoin.

If you've done that you've reduced the cost of energy down to basicly 0 and made it an (for all purposes) unlimited resource. As money is a store of economic energy, which is a function of biological / physical energy, you've ended the need for storing economic energy by creating unlimited, free energy and so unlimited free resources.....

If economics is the problem of limited resources and unlimited wants, you've killed economics.

would be a creepy social structure if that happened, my money is on raise of dictators (with lightsabers?)

Cant really respond to the previous science post i dont understand science on the same level as you but i will preorder a lightsaber

As regards this one, if gold were made for cheap im thinking as regards money & stores of value we'd just shift the goal posts elsewhere.  If we truly did find ways to produce something out of virtually nothing star trek style then perhaps.... to quote the NLP founder "Information is the currency of the future" & maybe that should be extended to things like creativity etc.  In star trek they seem to have a social order haha

[Balthazar]

Just try to imagine that you have got an absolute power in some way.. It doesn't matter how, maybe through a coup, from royal ancestry or as the result of mutual destruction of existing opposition. Which kind of political system would you prefer to create?

A variant of this, sometimes played with by Mensans, is that after one person describes their ideal system a second person gets to choose a role for the first person within that system. Things then become very messy as the implications dawn.

Corny example:

A: I would pick a monarchy. I've always wanted to be king/queen.
B: OK, monarchy it is. You are a peasant within the monarchy and one of the arrogant nobles has just noticed your daughter. Is it still your system of choice?
A: No, no, of course not. Umm - I pick a completely flat egalitarian system then. Nobody has any special ranks, privileges, entitlements and so forth.
B: OK, egalitarian it is. You are a megalomaniac within that flat system. You are sure that you know best. You crave power and you need to be the boss. Is it still your system of choice?
A: No, I guess not. Umm - I know - the golden rule - do unto others - will be the only rule in my system.
B: OK, golden rule it is. You are a masochist within that system, begging others to beat you. Every time you come upon a sadist they refuse to do it. Is it still your system of choice?

Crazy-making stuff.      

Elective monarchy, maybe? It can be a solution for such dilemma... Nobody will run around your daughter if new monarch is elected by people's assembly or appointed by council of lords.

[countryfree]

but the problem is how to fix a limit on what the government of a liberal republic can do

Principle of separation of powers to independent legislative, executive and legislative branches is purposed to do that.

No, it's not what I meant. If we go back to the early days of liberalism, which Benjamin Constant explained truly well, the government has only two purposes. To protect the citizens from foreign invaders, and to police the streets. Nowadays, millions of people see it as normal that government organizes healthcare, regulates the work place and so on. That's the issue: how to prevent liberal republic from becoming socialist nightmares.

[gts476]

So if you find a way to make gold for cheap you dont tell anyone, its kinda like if you've hacked bitcoin.

If you've done that you've reduced the cost of energy down to basicly 0 and made it an (for all purposes) unlimited resource. As money is a store of economic energy, which is a function of biological / physical energy, you've ended the need for storing economic energy by creating unlimited, free energy and so unlimited free resources.....

If economics is the problem of limited resources and unlimited wants, you've killed economics.

would be a creepy social structure if that happened, my money is on raise of dictators (with lightsabers?)

Cant really respond to the previous science post i dont understand science on the same level as you but i will preorder a lightsaber

As regards this one, if gold were made for cheap im thinking as regards money & stores of value we'd just shift the goal posts elsewhere.  If we truly did find ways to produce something out of virtually nothing star trek style then perhaps.... to quote the NLP founder "Information is the currency of the future" & maybe that should be extended to things like creativity etc.  In star trek they seem to have a social order haha

On the meaning of Star Trek, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBRf8DVkc-8

[gts476]

Just try to imagine that you have got an absolute power in some way.. It doesn't matter how, maybe through a coup, from royal ancestry or as the result of mutual destruction of existing opposition. Which kind of political system would you prefer to create?

A variant of this, sometimes played with by Mensans, is that after one person describes their ideal system a second person gets to choose a role for the first person within that system. Things then become very messy as the implications dawn.

Corny example:

A: I would pick a monarchy. I've always wanted to be king/queen.
B: OK, monarchy it is. You are a peasant within the monarchy and one of the arrogant nobles has just noticed your daughter. Is it still your system of choice?
A: No, no, of course not. Umm - I pick a completely flat egalitarian system then. Nobody has any special ranks, privileges, entitlements and so forth.
B: OK, egalitarian it is. You are a megalomaniac within that flat system. You are sure that you know best. You crave power and you need to be the boss. Is it still your system of choice?
A: No, I guess not. Umm - I know - the golden rule - do unto others - will be the only rule in my system.
B: OK, golden rule it is. You are a masochist within that system, begging others to beat you. Every time you come upon a sadist they refuse to do it. Is it still your system of choice?

Crazy-making stuff.      

Elective monarchy, maybe? It can be a solution for such dilemma... Nobody will run around your daughter if new monarch is elected by people's assembly or appointed by council of lords.

Non initiation of force, loop closed.

[Balthazar]

Elective monarchy, maybe? It can be a solution for such dilemma... Nobody will run around your daughter if new monarch is elected by people's assembly or appointed by council of lords.

Non initiation of force, loop closed.

What do you mean?

An elective monarchy is a monarchy ruled by an elected monarch, in contrast to a hereditary monarchy in which the office is automatically passed down as a family inheritance.

There were many elective monarchy states in the history. Kingdom of Rome, Holy Roman Empire, Kingdom of Serbia, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and dozens of others. Some of these states were stable enough to exist during many ages.

Famous modern example is the Vatican city, it employs an elective theocratic monarchy with legislatures. This system have survived more than 1000 years  

[dank]

Does anarchy equate to not caring about anything?  To me, anarchy equates to freedom.  Volunteerism.  Living for your own will.

[Balthazar]

Does anarchy equate to not caring about anything?

Yep, because you shouldn't try to use your absolute power for anything. Otherwise it won't be an anarchy, am I right?

[dank]

Does anarchy equate to not caring about anything?

Yep, because you shouldn't try to use your absolute power for anything. Otherwise it won't be an anarchy, am I right?

I see what you're saying, but you can still care about things, you can care for other humans, you can still have ambition and purpose in life.

[BCEmporium]

I see what you're saying, but you can still care about things, you can care for other humans, you can still have ambition and purpose in life.

Good and Evil aren't black and white, the very same thing can be caring for someone and hazard to another. Anarchy is sort of the last state of individualism, because the Good/Evil duality locks you around yourself. Most people needs some sort of guidance, something they can believe in to set this black and white inexistent world and even if some could actually live totally free and act somewhat accordingly to your utopia, they are a tiny percent, most won't and conflicts would raise everywhere.
And how would you set conflicts under Anarchy? In a situation where both believe to be right, why would John's view should prevail over Joe's or vice-versa?

[dank]

I see what you're saying, but you can still care about things, you can care for other humans, you can still have ambition and purpose in life.

Good and Evil aren't black and white, the very same thing can be caring for someone and hazard to another. Anarchy is sort of the last state of individualism, because the Good/Evil duality locks you around yourself. Most people needs some sort of guidance, something they can believe in to set this black and white inexistent world and even if some could actually live totally free and act somewhat accordingly to your utopia, they are a tiny percent, most won't and conflicts would raise everywhere.
And how would you set conflicts under Anarchy? In a situation where both believe to be right, why would John's view should prevail over Joe's or vice-versa?

Let those who want to fight fight.  Let those who want peace live in peace.  That's all we can do.  Karma and natural selection takes over from there.  The positives will attract positives, the negatives attract negatives and earth purges itself.

Karma is all the guidance we truly need.  Way more effective than any man made law.

[Cream]

There is no any perfect political system for every person,No matter how perfect of a political system you would make,there will always be people whom you harm.Some citizens aren't made for any political system whom we call non law abiding citizens,Good for nothing

[gts476]

There is no any perfect political system for every person,No matter how perfect of a political system you would make,there will always be people whom you harm.Some citizens aren't made for any political system whom we call non law abiding citizens,Good for nothing

I prefer to compare farm animals to wild animals, some animals are dangerous to farm.....

[Balthazar]

There is no any perfect political system for every person,No matter how perfect of a political system you would make,there will always be people whom you harm.Some citizens aren't made for any political system whom we call non law abiding citizens,Good for nothing

I prefer to compare farm animals to wild animals, some animals are dangerous to farm.....

[gts476]

Indoctrination from an early age pacifies a naturally dangerous animal? who could of guessed?

*cough* state run school system *cough*

[Timetwister]

Anarchocapitalism. Because I'm against violence. All exchanges should be voluntary.